Nicki Minaj proves Hip-Hop is dead

[EmeraldHeart 335]

Just now, DemeLarell said:

Basically this:

Also proclaiming who is "the queen/king" is just so subjective. And there seems to be this confusion that mainstream and underground hip hop can't coexist, and if a hip hop artist decides to go mainstream then it's because the "white man" is pulling the strings. My thoughts: 1. this article is biased which is fine because labels like "queen" are subjective. There are people out there that believes other rappers are the "queens" and that's perfectly fine. 2. Hip Hop is alive. If you don't care for the mainstream go look underground. We shouldn't discredit mainstream artist. 3. This article has nothing to do with hip hop but rather try to diminish nicki, because hip hop is alive. 

Of course mainstream and underground hip-hop can co-exist and nobody is saying that if a rapper goes mainstream, or decides to, it's because the white man is pulling the strings.

It just seems problematic that our culture celebrates and adorns the best of black culture by seeing how well it appeals to the dominant white culture,

1. Please... Look at who buys the most rap records, look at who is praised all over social media and in every article. The wider culture as a whole determines who the greatest of black culture are based on white metrics

2. The title is dramatic, but it's referring to the loss of grip black people have on their own culture. In the history books it's not going to be artists like MF Doom who are considered one of the G.O.A.T despite the respect he has among hip-hop heads. This article isn't discrediting mainstream artists though...

3. If you read the entire article, they praise Nicki and her technical ability. This isn't a diss on Nicki, I personally rate her pretty highly.

[EmeraldHeart 335]

7 minutes ago, Edonis said:

I understand and agree with what you're saying 100%. But idk, I do think that the white community in the US that does consume the majority of rap music plays a role in the state of hip hop, but, couldn't that be said about every genre in the US at least? The majority of English language music consumers are always going to be White Americans regardless of the genre; so that's where I'm getting trouble with saying it's just on that. I agree that it plays a role in that, but I think a lot of the current state in hip hop specifically originates from the late 80's and early 90's when the mainstream genre started to embrace "gangster rap" etc. that fueled the competition aspect of rap music, etc. But that's a whole other thing lol. Basically I mean that it's a lot of factors and I think in order to change this trend, unfortunately, someone has to become influential enough to make Rap music that steers away from the current standards of the genre. If that makes sense lol. 

Well sure, but I think that misses the point. Like the article says

"we all should agree that it’s the people who actually care about and directly participate in what’s left of hip-hop culture—at the very least those who understand the rap rivalry the “shETHER” beat and title are referencing—whose opinions and values and judging criteria should weigh heaviest here. Things like lyrical quality, entertainment, whose shots were funnier, conveyed emotion, etc. should be how the beef is judged."

I think it would be pretty tight if hip-hop radio, and hip-hop magazines as well as the people who are actually involved with the culture had a larger voice in these conversations over who is the best and who won what rap battle.

In the white media though, I think those voices are largely ignored. Instead the culture, as a whole, celebrates black artists from black culture that appeal the most to a white audience - because that is where the money is. Hip-Hop is deeper than that though.

[Neight Shayde 7,925]

was about to complain before reading the article.

good article.

[EmeraldHeart 335]

15 minutes ago, MetalliGa said:

The only type of people who care about the charts are the pop fans and radio stations. The GP probably don't even care and for it to fly up the charts, I wouldn't care either.

I had to stop listening to Gaga's Princess Die for this reply? 

But my replies will always be anti hip-hop  

This reply is nonsensical and doesn't even try to attempt to address the ideas put forward by the article or by myself. The "GP" has absolutely nothing to do with this.

At least try to read before replying to me, or posting in threads.

[DemeLarell 931]

10 minutes ago, EmeraldHeart said:

Of course mainstream and underground hip-hop can co-exist and nobody is saying that if a rapper goes mainstream, or decides to, it's because the white man is pulling the strings.

It just seems problematic that our culture celebrates and adorns the best of black culture by seeing how well it appeals to the dominant white culture,

1. Please... Look at who buys the most rap records, look at who is praised all over social media and in every article. The wider culture as a whole determines who the greatest of black culture are based on white metrics

2. The title is dramatic, but it's referring to the loss of grip black people have on their own culture. In the history books it's not going to be artists like MF Doom who are considered one of the G.O.A.T despite the respect he has among hip-hop heads. This article isn't discrediting mainstream artists though...

3. If you read the entire article, they praise Nicki and her technical ability. This isn't a diss on Nicki, I personally rate her pretty highly.

Ok cool. Well this is a debate for "white people" I guess. As far as the black community we celebrate many hip hop artist, mainstream and underground. We don't look at how it appeals to white people. We know who the greats are and if "white people" only see the ones who cater to a more mainstream sound and deem them the best that's them. Growing up with hip hop. I never knew there was a difference in any of this. This article seems very generalized. 

[EmeraldHeart 335]

2 minutes ago, DemeLarell said:

Ok cool. Well this is a debate for "white people" I guess. As far as the black community we celebrate many hip hop artist, mainstream and underground. We don't look at how it appeals to white people. We know who the greats are and if "white people" only see the ones who cater to a more mainstream sound and deem them the best that's them. Growing up with hip hop. I never knew there was a difference in any of this. This article seems very generalized. 

I'm part of the black community

I don't think this is really a debate for white people to have.... I think you miss the point when you say w celebrate many hip-hop artists from the mainstream to underground. Of course we do! But white people don't! And they are the ones that control the media and the ones that dominate culture.

It would just be kinda tight if our voices where heard more when it comes to our culture. It would be cool if it wasn't white people deciding through their financial power, their media, their tastes who the best of hip-hop is and who should be considered the best.

[Harry 26,836]

I think the title of the article is distracting from it's main points. Saying hip-hop is dead actually doesn't seem very relevant to the article at all. Probably some kind of click bait move to make people read it...

But the actual article is very interesting with a lot of points that should be taken seriously when it comes to this. Nicki's "Queen of Rap" shtick as a response was so predictable. Numbers and chart statistics to back herself up... She's doing the same as any stan of hers could on ATRL, basically. 

[Magneto 13,430]

I'm not even gonna read this article in full. Culture is never static and ever evolving.

[EmeraldHeart 335]

39 minutes ago, Magneto said:

I'm not even gonna read this article in full. Culture is never static and ever evolving.

It shows that you didn't read this article in full, as your response is pretty much totally irrelevant to what the article is talking about.

[Claymore 671]

Damn, they went IN! And they attack me when I say that Nicki is a pop girl and not a rapper.If Nicki were a bonafide rapper and not a soulless pop star she wouldn't have this huge following of white gay males.

[Logan. 52]

When two separate cultures exist in the same geographical location they will melt together. If rap culture was able to achieve its massive popularity in black America what makes you think it wouldn't grow to the same level throughout all of American culture? It sounds like you're whining about appropriation when cultural aspects can only naturally evolve. You elevate a victim status against white america stealing rap culture, but updated aspects of rap culture are only perpetuated by the artists themselves

[EmeraldHeart 335]

2 hours ago, Logan. said:

When two separate cultures exist in the same geographical location they will melt together. If rap culture was able to achieve its massive popularity in black America what makes you think it wouldn't grow to the same level throughout all of American culture? It sounds like you're whining about appropriation when cultural aspects can only naturally evolve. You elevate a victim status against white america stealing rap culture, but updated aspects of rap culture are only perpetuated by the artists themselves

"When two separate cultures exist in the same geographical location they will melt together"

Well, no ****?

"If rap culture was able to achieve its massive popularity in black America what makes you think it wouldn't grow to the same level throughout all of American culture?"

I wouldn't think that?

"It sounds like you're whining about appropriation when cultural aspects can only naturally evolve."

Then you don't know what I'm talking about

"You elevate a victim status against white america stealing rap culture, but updated aspects of rap culture are only perpetuated by the artists themselves"

This has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

 

I have no problem with white people buying rap music or being fans or rap music, I don't even have a problem with white artists making rap music. I don't have any issue at all with rap becoming mainstream.

You are discussing something entirely different to what I am discussing. What I am discussing is what rap means and still means to the black community, what I am discussing is the importance of rap music within the community that created it and fostered it, what I'm talking about is a corruption of that culture by white dominant class that rewards black artists that are able to appeal to a white establishment.

This isn't a case of: "culture evolves naturally", "obviously two different cultures that live in the same area will melt together". This is about one culture (black culture) creating and cultivating a genre of music by them and for them - its about that culture establishing traditions and establishing values around this musical movement. This is about a dominant culture (white culture), with more power and money, being able to just reach in and appropriate that culture - to decide what sounds, themes and values they like to hear and and to outvote the original (black) culture with their money. This is about that dominant culture buying the records, liking the glimpse into the 'others' life, but not understanding or respecting the history of the movement. It's about this dominant culture now being able to decide who the best 'other' artist (black artist) is based on their own metrics rather than the metrics of the culture the artist actually belongs too.

What I am saying is that white discussions over rap music dominate discussion over the genre in the larger culture due to the large consumer base of economically privileged white people and a media that appeals to white people. What is culturally ours what we created - is slowly becoming less ours.

In today's discussions - and you see it on this very forum - you can have an instance like the Nicki vs Remy beef and as the streets and as the hip-hop community discuss who won based on technical skill, lyrical quality, entertainment, flow, rhyming schemes, whose shots were funnier, conveyed emotion and so on - discussions by white media and by the population at large become "Lol Remy is irrelevant though! Nicki is Queen!!"

In discussions of who the greatest are, it's not Tech N9ne, Big L, MF Doom, Pharoahe Monch, Blackalicious, Jaylib, Cannibal Ox who are being mentioned by white publications - these publications would have no clue who 90% of these artists are - instead discussion straight away turns, understandably, to the mainstream rappers who have managed to market themselves well enough to a white audience to achieve mainstream success.

 

Now I have no problem with mainstream rappers,a lot of them are ****ing great, and I rate a lot of mainstream artists among the best, but rap music is still culturally significant for black people, it started as something political and rebellious - and it still is. There are a whole set of traditions and values within the hip-hop community that is largely ignored by a white culture that has outvoted through their larger economic power and has been able to take what they like from black culture, while ignoring the culturally significant aspects of rap culture that don't appeal to them.

 

When I see comments like "But Remy who?? Lol she can remain irrelevant! Nicki is the Queen!" you can't help but think "**** you, you probably don't know the first thing about hip-hop - you probably couldn't even recite a biggie verse, you probably haven't even heard Ether, but you have the nerve to talk about our music without respecting the culture that comes with it?"

[Logan. 52]

"There are a whole set of traditions and values within the hip-hop community that is largely ignored by a white culture that has outvoted through their larger economic power and has been able to take what they like from black culture, while ignoring the culturally significant aspects of rap culture that don't appeal to them."

"You elevate a victim status against white america stealing rap culture, but updated aspects of rap culture are only perpetuated by the artists themselves"

eh?

 

Your arguments sound pretentious. You criticize white people (a huge sample) for the inability to judge a musician based off technical skill? Why again is this ability only reserved for black people?

then you go on to criticize white people who only like to listen to the music when they should also be writing a research paper on the foundations of rap.

You also overgeneralize the importance of rap to people in the black community. While I can't find any statistics, it's a safe bet that a majority of black people who listen to rap aren't going out of their way to write an article on how big bad white america is ruining the culture that cultivated in the same country.

 

You keep trying to separate two ethnic groups when in reality they exist within the same realm. Black culture is American culture. White culture is American culture. Maybe you'd be less upset about things if you just allowed them to take on their natural progression