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Nicki Minaj proves Hip-Hop is dead


EmeraldHeart

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EmeraldHeart

To understand how we’ve arrived here, we’ll have to hearken back to an almost forgotten time, back when hip-hop was a niche, consciously rebellious, largely young and black and urban culture with its own battery of values and mores. Inauthenticity, unoriginality, and selling out were heresies, and the pinnacle of achievement was earning the confidence to strut around the neighborhood you grew up in and bask in the acknowledgement from your peers that nobody around could put together a doper verse than you.

Battles and beefs were where careers could be made or broken, where the tentpoles marking the major eras of the culture were planted. A thirsty up-and-comer might see a more established vet, pick up the mic and, sensing an opportunity to prove himself, attack. Maybe he’d claim that the established act was a phony who no longer lived by the ideals he professed in his music and was old and washed and never that good in the first place. (Oh, and he was ugly and kind of stupid, too.) The upstart, in contrast, would brag about how nice he was with the pen, crafting lines so intricate and personal and vicious and hilarious that no one could doubt that, under the criteria that rapping is historically judged by, the youth had surpassed the elder.

The veteran, meanwhile, might come back with a story about how the youngster was a scorned fanboy who was just mad the vet didn’t lend a verse to the new kid’s track when they ran into each other outside the studio one day. And anyway, everyone from around the way agreed that he’d been the best rapper out for a while, which he’d then proceed to demonstrate with insults and flows and rhyme patterns to back his supremacy. The victor would be determined by those who knew the terms of engagement of rap beefs, and what was at all times paramount was the style and skill of the rappers themselves.

As we can see in the Nicki Minaj-Remy Ma beef, the values of that culture have been almost entirely erased. In place of the aesthetic and moral standards that adjudicated beefs then, there is now only economics, a financial audit to determine who has better served the god of capitalism. This battle isn’t being waged on who’s better at rapping, or impressing their cultural peers with their respective skills, but instead on the purchasing preferences of culturally foreign white people. Which maybe shouldn’t be a surprise when even unrepentant biters are somehow allowed to thrive.

......

Where and from whom rap emerged, and what the culture was supposed to mean and value, is almost completely irrelevant now. In place of those values has been the ascent of cold, amoral economic analysis.

......

Minaj’s proof of her superiority is built entirely around the economic argument, which stems from the taste of her celebrity buddies and the purchasing power of those who buy her songs. The problem here is that these indicators of success—album and single sales and fame—do not accurately reflect the tastes and opinions and values of the actual community that seriously engages with hip-hop music and its culture.

Nicki Minaj—a black woman who grew up in Queens, in a rap beef with a black woman who grew up poor in the Bronx—is essentially arguing that because middle- and upper-class (predominately white) people like her sound more than they do Remy Ma’s, that hip-hop culture—again, once the social and cultural force birthed and cultivated in the black inner city with its own, self-styled standards and morals and ideals—must name her the victor; or, even worse, that because white suburbia has already crowned her Queen of Rap, those who wish to apply hip-hop culture’s own, traditional code of rap diss grading standards and thus reject Minaj’s argument that her RIAA plaques make her the automatic winner have no standing to even judge the battle.

.....

The kinds of people Minaj is attempting to win over in “No Frauds” and the kinds of people who have made her as big of a crossover star as she is look less like her or Remy Ma, and more like the nice, pretty white people represented in this Pepsi commercial. (Let’s also not forget that it wasn’t too long ago that a rapper selling her music and herself to a major corporation for a cringe-inducing ad like this would’ve made her the subject of endless ridicule.)

You can argue about whether Nicki Minaj or Remy Ma is the better rapper or songwriter or entertainer; about whether Ma’s disses truly are trenchant critiques of Minaj or if they’re empty, clunky insults that don’t stick; and what whether “No Frauds” or “shETHER” is the better song. But we all should agree that it’s the people who actually care about and directly participate in what’s left of hip-hop culture—at the very least those who understand the rap rivalry the “shETHER” beat and title are referencing—whose opinions and values and judging criteria should weigh heaviest here. Things like lyrical quality, entertainment, whose shots were funnier, conveyed emotion, etc. should be how the beef is judged. A rote accounting of the statistics the record companies collect to determine how much value they’ve extracted from their workers doesn’t—or shouldn’t—have any place.

In that sense, the stakes of this Nicki Minaj-Remy Ma beef are incredibly high. To a certain way of thinking, whether or not to accept Minaj’s argument that it’s sales that demonstrate how and why she’s a better rapper than Ma has to do with a fight for the very soul of hip-hop culture. Is hip-hop still its own, unique entity, separate from and often in opposition to mainstream American values? Or has it too, like so many movements before it, now become just another victim of postmodern capitalism, where success and failure can only be determined by which direction the invisible hand points? If “No Frauds” is enough for Minaj to “win” this beef, we’ll have our answer.

 

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/nicki-minaj-is-out-to-prove-shes-better-than-remy-ma-a-1793221838

 

It's long AF so I just copied parts of it but it's so ****ing sad and true. It kinda makes me angry how much white people have culturally appropriated hip-hop without paying any kinda respect to the culture and history of hip-hop.

What was once a space created by black urban youth to create and rebel is now just commercial entertainment for white people. The traditions of hip-hop and the soul of hip hop has been lost to corporate America and the suburban white, economically privileged kids who can decide what part of black culture they like, what part of black culture is acceptable and can disregard the rest.

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DemeLarell

This is so generalized it's ridiculous. There are only a few rappers in the mainstream compared to all the hip hop artist the article fails to acknowledge. Hip hop is alive, we just have to stop looking for it on the hot 100. 

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Ooolong

Well if you aren't actually looking for good hip hop music and you just listen to the ones on Billboard than of course you're going to think it's dead. :rip: 

Good things don't just fall into your hands, especially when everybody has different taste. :rip: 

The Unbannable Chanteuse
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EmeraldHeart
3 minutes ago, DemeLarell said:

This is so generalized it's ridiculous. There are only a few rappers in the mainstream compared to all the hip hop artist the article fails to acknowledge. Hip hop is alive, we just have to stop looking for it on the hot 100. 

Nah, I think you missed the point of the article.

They are not saying that the rappers in the mainstream are the ones who are important, the article is saying the exact opposite. The problem is hip-hop radio, and mass hip-hop culture has been co-opted.

I mean - there are plenty of people into hip-hop that would call Nicki Minaj the Queen of Rap based on her commercial performance - plenty who are talking about how great Drake is and Jay is based upon the numbers they pull.

That's the entire problem thought right? We are allowing white people with money to dictate who is crowned the best rapper.

I aint hearing anyone talk about that bitch Couture from QOTR and talking about how she is the queen. Ironically it's **** like QOTR that make it obvious that hip-hop culture is still alive - it's just that in the mainstream it has been taken from us.

 

Nicki Minaj isn't the Queen of Rap because she can battle any chick, flex her technical abilities while maintaining the values of hip-hop. She is called the Queen because she has her endorsement deals and can write hits for white people.

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Edonis

No genre is never truly dead; just look for it elsewhere. As for the stuff regarding its commercial appeal to white people, this may sound shocking but, whenever something reaches mainstream commercial success, it reaches white people. It's been that's ay since the late 80's and early 90's when the genre delved into more modern sounds with more emphasis on the competition in the genre as opposed to the craft. Original hip hop was often protest music, a vehicle for black youth to express one's emotions and frustration with social issues, not brag about how much money one has, etc. However the moment hip hop became something marketable on the charts, the genre shifted. I don't think it's necessarily because one specific race often buys more music than others that the mainstream genre is that way at all. 

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Edonis
1 minute ago, EmeraldHeart said:

Nah, I think you missed the point of the article.

They are not saying that the rappers in the mainstream are the ones who are important, the article is saying the exact opposite. The problem is hip-hop radio, and mass hip-hop culture has been co-opted.

I mean - there are plenty of people into hip-hop that would call Nicki Minaj the Queen of Rap based on her commercial performance - plenty who are talking about how great Drake is and Jay is based upon the numbers they pull.

That's the entire problem thought right? We are allowing white people with money to dictate who is crowned the best rapper.

I aint hearing anyone talk about that bitch Couture from QOTR and talking about how she is the queen. Ironically it's **** like QOTR that make it obvious that hip-hop culture is still alive - it's just that in the mainstream it has been taken from us.

 

Nicki Minaj isn't the Queen of Rap because she can battle any chick, flex her technical abilities while maintaining the values of hip-hop. She is called the Queen because she has her endorsement deals and can write hits for white people.

But I don't think this has to do with white people but more to do with the overall music culture in general. People praised Nicki and Jay initially because, they were at one point, considered good artists or at least interesting and something to look forward to. Unfortunately music culture, particularly when genres become more "pop", became a numbers game and now everyone wants to brag about streams and sales as opposed to impact. And I think that's what the article is talking about. It's the state of the music industry and the current obsession that's taken student since 2012. 

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EmeraldHeart
9 minutes ago, Ooolong said:

Well if you aren't actually looking for good hip hop music and you just listen to the ones on Billboard than of course you're going to think it's dead. :rip: 

Good things don't just fall into your hands, especially when everybody has different taste. :rip: 

I feel like y'all are just kinda skim reading the article and not really taking into account what it's saying.

This is about white culture co-opting hip-hop. This is about mainstream rap no longer representing the things it used to stand for. This is about a white culture being able to determine and decide who is the "Queen of Rap" or the G.O.A.T based on their metrics.

When did the article mention focusing on artists on Billboard? Billboard shouldn't be relevant :shrug: the entire article is basically arguing that we shouldn't be letting metrics like Billboard (that essentially measure how many economically privileged white people like your rap songs) determine who the best rappers are.

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Pacify Him

:applause: Best news I've heard for a while

 

Now, onto better music. And I don't mean Ed Sheeran's :nails::ladyhaha:

I’m getting on your nerves
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EmeraldHeart
4 minutes ago, Edonis said:

No genre is never truly dead; just look for it elsewhere. As for the stuff regarding its commercial appeal to white people, this may sound shocking but, whenever something reaches mainstream commercial success, it reaches white people. It's been that's ay since the late 80's and early 90's when the genre delved into more modern sounds with more emphasis on the competition in the genre as opposed to the craft. Original hip hop was often protest music, a vehicle for black youth to express one's emotions and frustration with social issues, not brag about how much money one has, etc. However the moment hip hop became something marketable on the charts, the genre shifted. I don't think it's necessarily because one specific race often buys more music than others that the mainstream genre is that way at all. 

The title is dramatic, but I don't think it's such a reach to say hip-hop is losing it's values. Of course popular music reaches white people - but it shouldn't be white people who decide who the culturally significant black rappers are. It is our music and our culture after all.

Look at any statistics, the main consumer of commercial rap music is white people - they decide what rappers are hot like 90% of the time.

 

Just now, Edonis said:

But I don't think this has to do with white people but more to do with the overall music culture in general. People praised Nicki and Jay initially because, they were at one point, considered good artists or at least interesting and something to look forward to. Unfortunately music culture, particularly when genres become more "pop", became a numbers game and now everyone wants to brag about streams and sales as opposed to impact. And I think that's what the article is talking about. It's the state of the music industry and the current obsession that's taken student since 2012. 

But there is no problem with people praising Nicki or Jay :shrug: the problem is praising them only because they are able to cater enough to a white audience in order to find commercial success. For true hip-hop heads that's not what that should be about.

Nicki shouldn't be crowned the winner of her beef with Remy because she is making the hits - that's what this article cautions against. It should be about the culture. Who is better technically, who has the better insults and flow? Who has the most interesting and complex rhyming scheme? Not who is able to sell their records to white audiences to score hits.

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EmeraldHeart
4 minutes ago, MetalliGa said:

:applause: Best news I've heard for a while

 

Now, onto better music. And I don't mean Ed Sheeran's :nails::ladyhaha:

#1 So tone deaf to this article it's insane

#2 you clearly didn't read the article.

It's not about whether hip-hop is on the Billboard charts or not :smh:

Your still going to be hearing hip-hop on your radio and seeing it fly up the charts. This has nothing to do with the commercial viability of hip-hop.

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DemeLarell
2 minutes ago, EmeraldHeart said:

Nah, I think you missed the point of the article.

They are not saying that the rappers in the mainstream are the ones who are important, the article is saying the exact opposite. The problem is hip-hop radio, and mass hip-hop culture has been co-opted.

I mean - there are plenty of people into hip-hop that would call Nicki Minaj the Queen of Rap based on her commercial performance - plenty who are talking about how great Drake is and Jay is based upon the numbers they pull.

That's the entire problem thought right? We are allowing white people with money to dictate who is crowned the best rapper.

I aint hearing anyone talk about that bitch Couture from QOTR and talking about how she is the queen. Ironically it's **** like QOTR that make it obvious that hip-hop culture is still alive - it's just that in the mainstream it has been taken from us.

 

Nicki Minaj isn't the Queen of Rap because she can battle any chick, flex her technical abilities while maintaining the values of hip-hop. She is called the Queen because she has her endorsement deals and can write hits for white people.

Basically this:

1 minute ago, Edonis said:

No genre is never truly dead; just look for it elsewhere. As for the stuff regarding its commercial appeal to white people, this may sound shocking but, whenever something reaches mainstream commercial success, it reaches white people. It's been that's ay since the late 80's and early 90's when the genre delved into more modern sounds with more emphasis on the competition in the genre as opposed to the craft. Original hip hop was often protest music, a vehicle for black youth to express one's emotions and frustration with social issues, not brag about how much money one has, etc. However the moment hip hop became something marketable on the charts, the genre shifted. I don't think it's necessarily because one specific race often buys more music than others that the mainstream genre is that way at all. 

Also proclaiming who is "the queen/king" is just so subjective. And there seems to be this confusion that mainstream and underground hip hop can't coexist, and if a hip hop artist decides to go mainstream then it's because the "white man" is pulling the strings. My thoughts: 1. this article is biased which is fine because labels like "queen" are subjective. There are people out there that believes other rappers are the "queens" and that's perfectly fine. 2. Hip Hop is alive. If you don't care for the mainstream go look underground. We shouldn't discredit mainstream artist. 3. This article has nothing to do with hip hop but rather try to diminish nicki, because hip hop is alive. 

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Pacify Him
4 minutes ago, EmeraldHeart said:

#1 So tone deaf to this article it's insane

#2 you clearly didn't read the article.

It's not about whether hip-hop is on the Billboard charts or not :smh:

Your still going to be hearing hip-hop on your radio and seeing it fly up the charts. This has nothing to do with the commercial viability of hip-hop.

The only type of people who care about the charts are the pop fans and radio stations. The GP probably don't even care and for it to fly up the charts, I wouldn't care either.

I had to stop listening to Gaga's Princess Die for this reply? :what:

But my replies will always be anti hip-hop :applause: 

I’m getting on your nerves
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Edonis
1 minute ago, EmeraldHeart said:

The title is dramatic, but I don't think it's such a reach to say hip-hop is losing it's values. Of course popular music reaches white people - but it shouldn't be white people who decide who the culturally significant black rappers are. It is our music and our culture after all.

Look at any statistics, the main consumer of commercial rap music is white people - they decide what rappers are hot like 90% of the time.

 

But there is no problem with people praising Nicki or Jay the problem is praising them only because they are able to cater enough to a white audience in order to find commercial success. For true hip-hop heads that's not what that should be about.

Nicki shouldn't be crowned the winner of her beef with Remy because she is making the hits - that's what this article cautions against. It should be about the culture. Who is better technically, who has the better insults and flow? Who has the most interesting and complex rhyming scheme? Not who is able to sell their records to white audiences to score hits.

I understand and agree with what you're saying 100%. But idk, I do think that the white community in the US that does consume the majority of rap music plays a role in the state of hip hop, but, couldn't that be said about every genre in the US at least? The majority of English language music consumers are always going to be White Americans regardless of the genre; so that's where I'm getting trouble with saying it's just on that. I agree that it plays a role in that, but I think a lot of the current state in hip hop specifically originates from the late 80's and early 90's when the mainstream genre started to embrace "gangster rap" etc. that fueled the competition aspect of rap music, etc. But that's a whole other thing lol. Basically I mean that it's a lot of factors and I think in order to change this trend, unfortunately, someone has to become influential enough to make Rap music that steers away from the current standards of the genre. If that makes sense lol. 

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GagaXCupcakke

Cupcakke is coming to revive hip hop.

Like how Gaga revived pop music with The Fame.  

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Ooolong
9 minutes ago, EmeraldHeart said:

I feel like y'all are just kinda skim reading the article and not really taking into account what it's saying.

This is about white culture co-opting hip-hop. This is about mainstream rap no longer representing the things it used to stand for. This is about a white culture being able to determine and decide who is the "Queen of Rap" or the G.O.A.T based on their metrics.

When did the article mention focusing on artists on Billboard? Billboard shouldn't be relevant :shrug: the entire article is basically arguing that we shouldn't be letting metrics like Billboard (that essentially measure how many economically privileged white people like your rap songs) determine who the best rappers are.

Well, you're right about that, my initial response has mainly in part to the clickbait title. :poot:

But reading through the rest of the responses I pretty much just agree with what @Edonis has said. 

The Unbannable Chanteuse
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