The hypocrisy towards witchcraft and Azealia Banks

[ctherainbow 3,162]

28 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

6. Why should I be concerned about over fishing? Fish reproduce at an alarming rate and make thousands of babies. Ever seen those leaping fish in Canada where the bears just stand there and grab them and eat them all day, every day? They can do that without killing off the fish population because those fish are expert breeders and there's hundreds of them.

Not to step in the rest of this argument, but even as a meat-eater, I'm concerned about overfishing.  There are countless scientific studies that point to oceanic and freshwater food sources being depleted at an alarming rate, one that is unsustainable and will drop a number of species below their successful reproductive threshold within the next 15-30 years.  There's nothing "alarming" about the rate of reproduction of fish; they've evolved to have that rate of reproduction to replace the population decrease through natural predation.  The issue is that the growth of the human population is outstripping most species' ability to evolve population defense mechanisms, which is why we're seeing severe drops in population of many key food fish.  

Also, please don't make statements like "cows would have pain in their udders because no one is milking them" without having some sort of ecological knowledge.  Cows produce milk when they have a calf, and without humans removing the calf and feeding them formula instead of the mother's milk, the calf would be drinking that milk, removing the need for milking the mother.  If you have any other questions about biology or ecology, I'd be happy to answer them.

I usually really respect your opinions, and they're usually well-thought-out, but I had to check this one for you.  

OT:  I honestly don't see anything wrong with saying something negative about a spiritual path that involves ritual animal sacrifice.   

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

34 minutes ago, ctherainbow said:

Not to step in the rest of this argument, but even as a meat-eater, I'm concerned about overfishing.  There are countless scientific studies that point to oceanic and freshwater food sources being depleted at an alarming rate, one that is unsustainable and will drop a number of species below their successful reproductive threshold within the next 15-30 years.  There's nothing "alarming" about the rate of reproduction of fish; they've evolved to have that rate of reproduction to replace the population decrease through natural predation.  The issue is that the growth of the human population is outstripping most species' ability to evolve population defense mechanisms, which is why we're seeing severe drops in population of many key food fish.  

Also, please don't make statements like "cows would have pain in their udders because no one is milking them" without having some sort of ecological knowledge.  Cows produce milk when they have a calf, and without humans removing the calf and feeding them formula instead of the mother's milk, the calf would be drinking that milk, removing the need for milking the mother.  If you have any other questions about biology or ecology, I'd be happy to answer them.

I usually really respect your opinions, and they're usually well-thought-out, but I had to check this one for you.  

OT:  I honestly don't see anything wrong with saying something negative about a spiritual path that involves ritual animal sacrifice.   

Good point, never really thought about it that way. Thing is, I rarely eat fish anyway. I only eat cod, at that. So, I don't get why some people for the need for more exotic breeds. Seafood has just never really interested me, it's slimy and gross for the most part. I don't know anyone else who's crazy about it either. So, it's hard to really think about overfishing when you don't concern yourself with eating the stuff. As far as fish eating goes, I'm 90% vegetarian, so I'm already doing my bit. Honestly, I go past the fishmonger part of the supermarket and just think: "Who eats this stuff? Why are we killing it on the daily when so few people eat it?" There's nobody at the counter, nothing has gone out of stock, it's completely stocked, just sitting there. I think the same for a lot of yucky types of meat like cow's tongue and pig's trotters. Who would eat something so gross? So why is there so much of it sitting there? In situations like that, I can understand why vegetarians get mad. I certainly think there doesn't need to be as much fresh produce out there when it comes to animal products. Supply and demand needs to be reviewed because too many animals are losing their lives unnecessarily in more ways than one (not only do they not get eaten, but nobody buys it, so it goes off and has to be disposed of, so it's like they're killed twice). I mean, this is partly why I hate buying too much food that ends up going out of date and needs to be thrown away. When it's meat, I feel especially guilty. I wish meat and fish was limited to butchers and fishmongers (except if it's in a ready meal, naturally). Not only does it provide more business to the people who are at the forefront of the profession but it'll bring down over-farming and unnecessary killing of animals by adding in supermarket retailing of these products.

You made a very good statement about the cows. I guess I was just referring to cows that are bred for milk (not necessarily meat). I thought it was a well known fact that their udders ache if they have all this milk produced in them that isn't getting released. It was why I never understood why vegans had such a problem with milk production, provided there's no hormone injection and the cows are free range. But of course, cows in the wild wouldn't have this problem. I studied Higher biology at school. I got a D (explains a bit, huh?) But we didn't learn about this stuff. Just putting slices of potatoes in test-tubes with chemicals and maths equations. No wonder I never liked it. But we never dissected frogs. British regulation. See, kind to animals are we!

[ctherainbow 3,162]

4 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Good point, never really thought about it that way. Thing is, I rarely eat fish anyway. I only eat cod, at that. So, I don't get why some people for the need for more exotic breeds. Seafood has just never really interested me, it's slimy and gross for the most part. I don't know anyone else who's crazy about it either. So, it's hard to really think about overfishing when you don't concern yourself with eating the stuff. As far as fish eating goes, I'm 90% vegetarian, so I'm already doing my bit. Honestly, I go past the fishmonger part of the supermarket and just think: "Who eats this stuff? Why are we killing it on the daily when so few people eat it?" There's nobody at the counter, nothing has gone out of stock, it's completely stocked, just sitting there. I think the same for a lot of yucky types of meat like cow's tongue and pig's trotters. Who would eat something so gross? So why is there so much of it sitting there? In situations like that, I can understand why vegetarians get mad. I certainly think there doesn't need to be as much fresh produce out there when it comes to animal products. Supply and demand needs to be reviewed because too many animals are losing their lives unnecessarily in more ways than one (not only do they not get eaten, but nobody buys it, so it goes off and has to be disposed of, so it's like they're killed twice). I mean, this is partly why I hate buying too much food that ends up going out of date and needs to be thrown away. When it's meat, I feel especially guilty. I wish meat and fish was limited to butchers and fishmongers (except if it's in a ready meal, naturally). Not only does it provide more business to the people who are at the forefront of the profession but it'll bring down over-farming and unnecessary killing of animals by adding in supermarket retailing of these products.

You made a very good statement about the cows. I guess I was just referring to cows that are bred for milk (not necessarily meat). I thought it was a well known fact that their udders ache if they have all this milk produced in them that isn't getting released. It was why I never understood why vegans had such a problem with milk production, provided there's no hormone injection and the cows are free range. But of course, cows in the wild wouldn't have this problem. I studied Higher biology at school. I got a D (explains a bit, huh?) But we didn't learn about this stuff. Just putting slices of potatoes in test-tubes with chemicals and maths equations. No wonder I never liked it. But we never dissected frogs. British regulation. See, kind to animals are we!

Oh, I wasn't making a vegan argument, necessarily.  Just wanted to pass on info about the environment, which I'm passionate about.  

I also never dissected my frog.  I pulled it out of the package, saw how similar it looked to the ones I took care of at my family's pond, and nope'd all the way home.  

[MarryTheKnight 2,181]

well, witchcraft clearly isn't real and if you want the receipts just look at her decrepit career

at least people who eat meat or wear animal hides do something with the death of these animals. azealia tortures and kills them for NO REASON.

 

[Bette Davis 12,742]

9 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

1. A lot of that is nonsense that vegans dreamed up to make themselves feel superior. Humans are natural omnivores. Omnivores eat many things, including meat, so yes, we are naturally built for it. The fact we have to cook and process certain meat before eating it doesn't mean that no one should be eating it. There are plenty of foods out there that make various animals ill or die but doesn't affect us. Doesn't mean it's a no-go area for everyone.

2. No, your analogy doesn't make sense because you are taking the gay argument and twisting it. Like I said before, in this situation, it's the vegans who are the straights and the meat eaters are the gays. The vegans are trying to tell them to suppress their natural urges and stop eating meat through conversion therapy. Sound familiar? Plus, no meat eater is saying that deciding not to eat meat is unnatural, they're perfectly fine with other people's choices until they start getting irritated to become one of them. Diet is a big thing, a very personal thing. You don't want to eat meat or any animal product? Fine. But it's none of your business what choices I make.

3. Those people would probably like meat if they tried it, though. Then their natural instincts would start to kick in to replace their cultural upbringing. Plus, those elements that you listed are present in meat, so naturally, people will be drawn to meat.

4. Of course there's no truly ethical way to kill anything. But giving the animals the best possible life before they die is the most we can do. As I said before, it depends where you live. I'm in the UK, where we treat our animals the best we can before they get made into meat. Free range has been pretty much the standard for years now. I can't even remember ever seeing a box of eggs that didn't have "free range" written on the front. Our restrictions are so much better than other countries when it comes to that stuff. Even the likes of UK McDonalds are very ethical now. Don't know what the situation is like in other Western countries but here, we're one of the most ethical. So, there's no point trying to make me feel guilty for say, cows getting injected with hormones to produce more milk because I'm in the UK and drink British milk and our cows aren't treated like that here.

5. Sure, it's a luxury, but it's still eating food to survive. One of the amazing things about being human is that we have the choice of getting enjoyment out of the food we eat and having variety. If animals had a choice, they'd take advantage of it too. If lions were capable of eating plants too, would you be angry at them for still choosing to eat meat as well? Or would you say they were still just surviving? Because it's still within their nature to eat meat as well? Just a question - do you have pets? Meat-eating pets? What do you feed them? If it is meat, aren't you, as a vegan, contributing to the meat industry too?

6. No, humans and animals eating meat is what is solving overpopulation. It's a twofold thing, a circle of life thing. Why should I be concerned about over fishing? Fish reproduce at an alarming rate and make thousands of babies. Ever seen those leaping fish in Canada where the bears just stand there and grab them and eat them all day, every day? They can do that without killing off the fish population because those fish are expert breeders and there's hundreds of them. And wait, how does raising livestock contribute to human starvation? You've completely lost me there. And surely you're not against a poor family in the third world eating the animals from their land (which is their only source of food) and selling them (their only source of income)? You should be mad at the real problems that are killing off animals for pointless reasons like the fur industry, the ivory industry, bloodsports. But no, you want to get on at people for eating meat, which loads of animals do too. Priorities.

There was no need to be so condescending about me just because you don't agree. Fyi, I was talking about a hypothetical situation, of course it isn't realistic, but just imagine that it is. Don't assume that I'm naive and uneducated just because I choose to eat meat. "They don't think like me, they must be uneducated," is a logical fallacy.

And I defend animals a lot, thank you. I was in this very thread earlier saying how sick Azealia was for killing those chickens (because I don't agree with killing animals for pointless reasons - see, meat eater with morals!). I just decided to hit back at all those who were turning it into a vegetarian/vegan argument where it had no right to be.

Spoiler

1. Yes, most humans follow an omnivore diet, but our digestive tract/anatomy resemble more of an herbivore. It's a fact; look it up. We can eat meat, but we don't require it and our bodies aren't made to eat meat like a carnivore. Also vegans don't make up nonsense to feel superior, like you say, which is completely false and insulting. If factually based vegan arguments make you feel inferior, then that's on you.

2. Your whole debunking of my analogy relies on your belief that it's pure human instinct to eat meat. Like I've already stated in my first response to you, humans crave foods that are common in their culture and essential nutrients. Someone raised in a vegetarian culture isn't going to crave a steak because of instincts. 

3. That is a shaky assumption/guess, not a fact. I had a friend from India that was from an area where people do not consume any meat. She said it repulsed her how the air here (in the US) smelled of burning flesh (restaurants cooking meat). Do you really believe that if someone like her would start crave meat because of some primordial instinct flipping like a switch? No, definitely not.

4. Look up what "humanely raised", "free range", etc. all really mean. It's marketing to make people feel less guilty about what they are paying for. I used to justify eating animal products with the same logic, but then I looked into the reality of what my yummy food meant for other living beings. The UK has just as inhumane animal-rearing practices as most other developed countries. 

Spoiler

 

5. Like I've already mentioned, humans are able to make a moral decision about whether or not they want to enslave and kill other species for food, while animals eat for survival. I don't hold humans and lions (or any other animal) to the same standards because there are so many characteristic and situational differences that make the comparison pointless. 

6. Humans are not doing anything to solve overpopulation through hunting and fishing. We ourselves overpopulate the earth and are pushing countless species into extinction by ravaging the earth  You don't have any animals in your diet that are threatening the globe with overpopulation and being held in check by humans. 

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/extinction/

As for fish, look up overfishing (Atlantic Cod is a good example) and research the effects of bycatch (the unintended animals caught in fishing nets).

When I mentioned starvation, I was talking about the fact that if we stopped growing food to feed the animals we raise, we would be able to feed the earth. Here is a quote from an article: "It would take 40 million tons of food to eliminate the most extreme cases of world hunger, yet nearly 20 times that amount of grain is fed to farmed animals every year in order to produce meat. In a world where an estimated 850 million people do not have enough to eat, it is criminally wasteful to feed perfectly edible food to animals on farms in order to produce a burger rather than feeding it directly to people, especially when you consider that it takes roughly six pounds of grain to produce one pound of pork. As long as a single child goes hungry, this kind of waste is unconscionable."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/five-things-would-happen-if-everyone-stopped-eating-meat-a6844811.html

In response to you quoting @monstereo about defending animals, it's one thing to verbally defend animal rights, but remember that actions speak louder than words. You can ramble online about caring about animals, but what do you even do that actually makes any impact in real life in regards to animal rights? Also, no one needed you to come in and "hit back" at people who are truly passionate in animals rights in a thread that was triggered by an animal abuse case.

I left my response in a spoiler above. To be honest, I am done with this thread and if you (or anyone else) would like to discuss further or have any questions you can message me or start your own thread on the topic.

[FRANZGA 13,920]

I am late.. but let me share my stand here..

 

I respect religions but I do hate some practices including this.. We even have that ritual too, cause I personally knew some people who practiced witchcraft but we eat that meat after, clean the mess ( feathers) and consume everything edible and the chicken/pig/cow wasn't tortured but just kind of offered and stabbed by the throat just like a sacrifice then cooked and consumed after.. WHAT differs this from AB's act?? a lot actually

 

it's like harvesting vegies and eat them, compared to pulling plants in its roots squashed it, hit it with a paddle, put foot in it, poop in it, spit in it then locked it in a cupboard for NO REASON..

or like cutting trees for HOUSING or BOAT MAKING compared to cutting trees just for the sake of cutting it due to religious practices and then leave the logs behind until it causes flood or whatever just to fill fulfilled..

 

[Princess Stache 2,066]

On 12/30/2016 at 10:21 PM, RainbowBlonde said:

Now, I still think she is trash, for many other reasons. But honestly I think we've gone a little too far on this. It's really just what she believes in. Plenty of people also practice witchcraft.

I get that animal killings are involved. But it isn't without a reason if it has to do with religion. If that's the case, then the Thanksgiving turkey is also for no reason. It is for eating purposes, but it's an extra privilege, since they could have simply eaten something else. But millions on turkeys would have to be slaughtered just for that day. (not the best analogy tbh...)

Is discriminating against witches supposed to be the thing now? Is it Salem all over again? I think many of us have failed to see that, and are just trashing her for the sake of it.

 

(I'm not a vegan.)  I'm sorry, but I can't put this any other way, please kindly shut the **** up.

[RadioIsOurs 13,876]

Just now, Princess Stache said:

(I'm not a vegan.)  I'm sorry, but I can't put this any other way, please kindly shut the **** up.

Sorry but that made me laugh

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Believing is Witchcraft and Donald Trump at the same time is too much for anyone to handle though...

She probably belongs to the earth-is-flat lobby as well. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

On 04/01/2017 at 1:20 AM, Bette Davis said:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Yes, most humans follow an omnivore diet, but our digestive tract/anatomy resemble more of an herbivore. It's a fact; look it up. We can eat meat, but we don't require it and our bodies aren't made to eat meat like a carnivore. Also vegans don't make up nonsense to feel superior, like you say, which is completely false and insulting. If factually based vegan arguments make you feel inferior, then that's on you.

2. Your whole debunking of my analogy relies on your belief that it's pure human instinct to eat meat. Like I've already stated in my first response to you, humans crave foods that are common in their culture and essential nutrients. Someone raised in a vegetarian culture isn't going to crave a steak because of instincts. 

3. That is a shaky assumption/guess, not a fact. I had a friend from India that was from an area where people do not consume any meat. She said it repulsed her how the air here (in the US) smelled of burning flesh (restaurants cooking meat). Do you really believe that if someone like her would start crave meat because of some primordial instinct flipping like a switch? No, definitely not.

4. Look up what "humanely raised", "free range", etc. all really mean. It's marketing to make people feel less guilty about what they are paying for. I used to justify eating animal products with the same logic, but then I looked into the reality of what my yummy food meant for other living beings. The UK has just as inhumane animal-rearing practices as most other developed countries. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

5. Like I've already mentioned, humans are able to make a moral decision about whether or not they want to enslave and kill other species for food, while animals eat for survival. I don't hold humans and lions (or any other animal) to the same standards because there are so many characteristic and situational differences that make the comparison pointless. 

6. Humans are not doing anything to solve overpopulation through hunting and fishing. We ourselves overpopulate the earth and are pushing countless species into extinction by ravaging the earth  You don't have any animals in your diet that are threatening the globe with overpopulation and being held in check by humans. 

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/extinction/

As for fish, look up overfishing (Atlantic Cod is a good example) and research the effects of bycatch (the unintended animals caught in fishing nets).

When I mentioned starvation, I was talking about the fact that if we stopped growing food to feed the animals we raise, we would be able to feed the earth. Here is a quote from an article: "It would take 40 million tons of food to eliminate the most extreme cases of world hunger, yet nearly 20 times that amount of grain is fed to farmed animals every year in order to produce meat. In a world where an estimated 850 million people do not have enough to eat, it is criminally wasteful to feed perfectly edible food to animals on farms in order to produce a burger rather than feeding it directly to people, especially when you consider that it takes roughly six pounds of grain to produce one pound of pork. As long as a single child goes hungry, this kind of waste is unconscionable."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/five-things-would-happen-if-everyone-stopped-eating-meat-a6844811.html

In response to you quoting @monstereo about defending animals, it's one thing to verbally defend animal rights, but remember that actions speak louder than words. You can ramble online about caring about animals, but what do you even do that actually makes any impact in real life in regards to animal rights? Also, no one needed you to come in and "hit back" at people who are truly passionate in animals rights in a thread that was triggered by an animal abuse case.

I left my response in a spoiler above. To be honest, I am done with this thread and if you (or anyone else) would like to discuss further or have any questions you can message me or start your own thread on the topic.

I won't argue with you any further as there's not much more to say (although I notice that you dodged the 'buying meat for pets' question). But I know where you're coming from. The video is harrowing and made me really sad (the bits that I could watch), especially the piglet getting de-toothed and de-tailed, the poor wee thing. I genuinely had no idea that some places did such sickening things. I'm not by any means saying that all British farming is perfect but it isn't all this bad. But it sure makes you think. I like pigs, eating any pig product can be quite a guilty experience for me because of that, the only meat I sometimes struggle to eat without feeling bad, gelatine sweets in particular since they are a bit unnecessary.

Well, no, to tell the truth, I don't do that much that help animal rights in the physical sense. I can't exactly help out at a shelter as there's none nearby. But I do my bit in many ways because meat eaters can be surprisingly ethical. Apart from the diet, my day-to-day lifestyle is reasonably vegan. I don't wear fur or even real leather. I don't use products that are tested on animals. I don't support any industry that make animals work for entertainment. I am against bullfighting, bloodsports and hunting for fun. I am against the de-clawing cats and the de-barking of dogs. I support any initiatives to improve the health of ocean life. I don't eat meat that isn't customary in my country and I refuse to eat any meat that comes from infant animals as I think babies have a right to grow into adults. And out of the 3 cats that I've owned, one came from a shelter and 2 were strays I adopted.

Yeah, I was thinking of starting my own thread later as I have more than a few questions I'd like to ask vegans as this whole exchange has really made me consider things that I've never thought about before regarding veganism. I've also never heard them asked before and I'd like to get a vegan take on it.

[takemetovenus 4,826]

I wouldn't really consider myself Wiccan or even a Witch or whatever but I do believe in crystal healing and some spells, it helps me keep piece of mind in a way. Animal Sacrifices though are incredibly inhumane IMO and as humans in 2017, animal sacrifice shouldn't even be a thing 

Spoiler

Don't drag me for believing in crystals please , I don't care if you don't believe in it and I won't fight you over it. We all have our beliefs

 

[Roomingfree77 244]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 7:21 PM, RainbowBlonde said:

Now, I still think she is trash, for many other reasons. But honestly I think we've gone a little too far on this. It's really just what she believes in. Plenty of people also practice witchcraft.

I get that animal killings are involved. But it isn't without a reason if it has to do with religion. If that's the case, then the Thanksgiving turkey is also for no reason. It is for eating purposes, but it's an extra privilege, since they could have simply eaten something else. But millions on turkeys would have to be slaughtered just for that day. (not the best analogy tbh...)

Is discriminating against witches supposed to be the thing now? Is it Salem all over again? I think many of us have failed to see that, and are just trashing her for the sake of it.

 

It's always been my experience that you never really  know real witches are around unless... 

[Queen Gloria 3,464]

I myself practice witchcraft, and I think she's doing this for attention because she has mental illness. I do not see this as a valid religious activity she's doing. I think she has very deep issues and refuses to get help. Someone close to her needs to step in. You can tell from all her behavior on twitter, and news stories like her invading Russell Crowe's party and threatening him and his guests, that she desperately needs mental counseling. The way she talks to/about people is just vile. Her tweets read like the rantings of someone with schizophrenia. And she's never made any mention of this supposed religious ritual of hers before. She may be using that as the main reason, but there are lots of underlying issues she has.

Fine, let people have their cultural rituals. But she's on social media, posing and laughing about it, then attacking anyone who dares to question her. This is not okay behavior just because she's using her supposed religion as an excuse. She is desperate for a career and crying out for attention, and has been for a long time. I pity her more than anything, but the fact that she is so extremely rude to other people makes me dislike her and have less sympathy. There is a limit to this social justice idea of being totally accepting to every different group. At some point you need to step back and realize that some people are just damaged and need help, she's not just an innocent witch practicing her craft. There's something severely wrong with her. Making the sweeping statement of "We should all respect and let people do whatever they want" is such a teenaged/college aged idea. It's idealistic and frankly unrealistic. Sometimes people need to be held accountable for their actions. 

I have nothing against people who practice Santeria, yes, it's a valid religion for them. But I do not believe deep down that she legitimately practices it. I think it's for shock value, for her to do these kinds of things, then to cry racism on people who call her out on it. She's known to go out of her way to create drama to further her career, so why is this any different? 

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

On 12/31/2016 at 4:39 PM, JustLikeHoney said:

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia. Do a little more research.

Still gagged by how rude this was, considering I was quoting a case I learned in AP Government 8 years ago from memory. Wrong I know, but still such a rude way to end especially when you link a wiki article to support your argument. 

Sorry--my 2017 needed some negative energy so I had to unearth this from the vault. 

[Hurem 17,800]

Anyone who still likes Azealia is an idiot