Merkel: Ban Burqa wherever legally possible

[lego 44,165]

3 minutes ago, Mr Ricky said:

You live in a soc(ial)iety. You enter a store, expect to be greeted, be one to greet back and don't give such hateful look. Else stay HOME or outside.   

 

There are plenty of rude men and women, who don't say thank you, excuse me, sorry nor greet you back and their faces are never covered. No need to generalize and stigmatize one group of people, a minority, because they make you feel uncomfortable. 

There are also quite a few jobs done over the phone and you never request to see the person's face so, that's a bad excuse. 

 

 

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

Why is this a problem now?

[Mr Ricky 9,089]

Just now, lego said:

 

There are plenty of rude men and women, who don't say thank you, excuse me, sorry nor greet you back and their faces are never covered. No need to generalize and stigmatize one group of people, a minority, because they make you feel uncomfortable. 

There are also quite a few jobs done over the phone and you never request to see the person's face so, that's a bad excuse. 

 

 

Not generalizing at all, because this happens with every women wearing the burqa from the experience I had. Muslims not wearing burqas greet me as someone else would. That's the point I'm making.

Fcking today, I had the same sh*t. A woman in a burqa with her baby in a stroller,  greeting and waving her, she walks by like nothing happened. And greeting is possible in any form.

And I don't feel uncomfortable, it's just plain rude. You enter my shop, be nice to either give a simple way of a greet in any form. And I don't work in a shop where as I have to ignore my customers, I'm there to work and help the customer feeling welcome and satisfied. 

This is not H&M/Zara.

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, Mr Ricky said:

Not generalizing at all, because this happens with every women wearing the burqa from the experience I had. Muslims not wearing burqas greet me as someone else would. That's the point I'm making.

Fcking today, I had the same sh*t. A woman in a burqa with her baby in a stroller,  greeting and waving her, she walks by like nothing happened. And greeting is possible in any form.

And I don't feel uncomfortable, it's just plain rude. You enter my shop, be nice to either give a simple way of a greet in any form. And I don't work in a shop where as I have to ignore my customers, I'm there to work and help the customer feeling welcome and satisfied. 

This is not H&M/Zara.

 

I'm not saying it's not rude, but that's not reason enough to ban piece of clothing. Being rude is not related to what people wear or what they don't wear and it's not exclusive to one group of people. Not to mention some others have different experience with women in niqabs and some others in this thread never met or spoke to one. 

Maybe they're too shy, it also depends are they native of your country or from another culture where they never made much contact with men who are not related to them. Maybe they are used to workers not paying attention to them in shop. Not making excuses, just saying. 

 

[Goosey 3,017]

16 hours ago, aaronyoji said:

and yet ur a trump supporter aren't you?????? 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/music-video/perfect-illusion/id1157092203

[simpleworldme 87]

17 hours ago, aaronyoji said:

oh shut up what a dumb comparison. 

people arent forced to get tattoos for religious purposes under the fear and tyranny of men. 

women choosing to wear skirts to express themselves and not wanting to be assaulted for it is NOT the same thing. no. 

 

Agreed! Women choosing to wear skirts to express themselves and not wanting to be assaulted for it is DEFINITELY not the same thing! Good we have some common ground.

My opinion has nothing to do with that. It is geared towards the fact that we cannot evaluate and impose laws from the scope of our culture onto another, because some might not be applicable. Certain women from this particular culture believe in religion's ideals so strongly that for them, "choosing to express themselves" is actually by wearing said burqas, and it brings confidence and honor to their lives.

In countries where Islam composes the majority of the population, the opposite should also be condemned, women should NOT be forced to wear burqas, because not all women believe in religion's ideals like these. However, by banning them in Germany, you're more (way way more) likely to be discriminating a woman that wears a burqa for personal reasons than you are protecting someone who is forced to wear them. So unless you support equal treatment for women and freedom of expression, I'm sorry to say by defending the ban, you are actually instilling more sexist attitudes in society.

"oh shut up what a dumb comparison. "? Let me know if this still stands after you are done reading the above. I will not disrespect you by calling your response dumb, this should be a place of open conversation, I expect the same from you.

[Delulu Rogers 7,663]

On December 6, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Cocaine Heart said:

Progressive' countries and the 'western values' wanting to tell women what to wear.

to be progressive is one thing but you have to draw the line somewhere. We can't have people wearing/doing whatever they want out of the name of progress. You still have to respect the values of the country.

[Delulu Rogers 7,663]

To be progressive is one thing but you have to draw the line somewhere. We can't have people wearing/doing whatever they want out of the name of progress. You still have to respect the values and customs that your own country was founded upon.

The burka is not required in islam and is more of a cultural influence imposed by islamic extremists hundreds of years ago. While some are forced to wear it and others choose to wear it, they should respect the cultural differences from country to country. Just like a western women has to adhere to traditional clothing in the Middle East, the same should be done vice versa.

As for freedom of choice, the burka infringes on other people's security and safety in a society. To be multicultural is to be well integrated with other people and cultures where as the burka literally divides oneself from integrating, interacting and accepting one another's culture. I also find it amusing that many on here argue that to ban the burka is against progression when the burka itself is a symbol of what men inflicted on women ages ago. 

Living in Toronto, i see women wearing them on a daily basis and here we have entire neighbourhoods where burka dressed women live and hang out together and it can feel very awkward and intimidating for other women, males, and children.

While the word "ban" might sound harsh, it is the only way to get people to get the message across and personally, if they don't like it, they are more than welcomed to go back to where they came from. I am pro liberalism and in no way a racist, anti-islamic etc, but western countries have to put their foot down once in a while.

The double standard that western countries have to be accepting of everything while the rest of the world does their own thing without a peep from anyone is ludicrous and needs to stop.

[Goosey 3,017]

2 hours ago, ChrisC said:

As for freedom of choice, the burka infringes on other people's security and safety in a society.

Nonsense. Provide examples of burqas infringing on Canadians' security. Also, ban face coverings on Hallowe'en then—oh.

2 hours ago, ChrisC said:

Living in Toronto, i see women wearing them on a daily basis and here we have entire neighbourhoods where burka dressed women live and hang out together and it can feel very awkward and intimidating for other women, males, and children.

If you're 'intimidated' because someone is wearing a burqa, this is your problem and you need to deal with your own hang-ups, not ask for legislation targeting other people.

Living in Toronto, you should know that Canada is a mosaic of cultures, not a melting pot, and you should also know that the courts have struck down the attempts at limited burqa bans (at citizenship ceremonies, etc).

 

Zunera Ishaq, who challenged ban on niqab, takes citizenship oath wearing it
The Ontario woman who won court battles affirming her right to wear a niqab while taking the citizenship oath finally took part in the ceremony on Friday afternoon.

Zunera Ishaq cried as she took the oath at a government building in Mississauga, Ont., west of Toronto. 

"Thank you so much for honouring me here today," she said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/zunera-ishaq-niqab-ban-citizenship-oath-1.3257762

 

 

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Fundamental Freedoms

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association.

 

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

On 7.12.2016 at 0:09 AM, RAMROD said:

I just wanted to post the same picture

 

[lego 44,165]

9 hours ago, ChrisC said:

if they don't like it, they are more than welcomed to go back to where they came from.

 

This will never sound non-xenophobic, no matter how you spin it. 

These could be Canadians or second/third-generation Canadians and you dare to tell them "go back where you came from"? What if Natives tell you to go back where you came from?

 

9 hours ago, ChrisC said:

The double standard that western countries have to be accepting of everything while the rest of the world does their own thing

 

Did you forget colonialism and still ongoing bloody wars in ME in attempt to bring "democracy"? Other countries are not doing their own thing, they're invaded and constantly bashed for human rights abuse. When North Africa was colonized Arabs were banned from wearing their cultural clothes and banned from speaking Arabic in public. 

The double standards are when you force other countries to follow your rules and impose bans in your country which targets minority within minority (which does not harm you in any way) all that while claiming to be progressive and democratic. Why do you compare yourself to theocracies in first place?

You being uncomfortable is not excuse, people fear what they don't know.   

Many people are "intimidated" by people having tattoos and piercings all over their bodies and face, but they shouldn't and wouldn't be banned. 

Also integration and assimilation are not the same thing. 

[Melech 9,900]

31 minutes ago, lego said:

 

This will never sound non-xenophobic, no matter how you spin it. 

These could be Canadians or second/third-generation Canadians and you dare to tell them "go back where you came from"? What if Natives tell you to go back where you came from?

 

 

Did you forget colonialism and still ongoing bloody wars in ME in attempt to bring "democracy"? Other countries are not doing their own thing, they're invaded and constantly bashed for human rights abuse. When North Africa was colonized Arabs were banned from wearing their cultural clothes and banned from speaking Arabic in public. 

The double standards are when you force other countries to follow your rules and impose bans in your country which targets minority within minority (which does not harm you in any way) all that while claiming to be progressive and democratic. Why do you compare yourself to theocracies in first place?

You being uncomfortable is not excuse, people fear what they don't know.   

Many people are "intimidated" by people having tattoos and piercings all over their bodies and face, but they shouldn't and wouldn't be banned. 

Also integration and assimilation are not the same thing. 

First of all North Africa is not Arab in the first place and I know from some people that Arab supremacy is a thing in these countries. 

Also the wording of "constantly bashed". You believe that Saudi Arabia and countries like this shouldn't be bashed all the time? 

[lego 44,165]

5 minutes ago, Melech said:

First of all North Africa is not Arab in the first place and I know from some people that Arab supremacy is a thing in these countries. 

Also the wording of "constantly bashed". You believe that Saudi Arabia and countries like this shouldn't be bashed all the time? 

 

You are in no position to bash something if you believe your country should follow the same route - order someone how to dress. 

I'm talking about this one specific issue, so don't try to twist my words.

North Africa is pretty much Arabic, some might call themselves Berbers, but they speak Arabic for centuries and they have Islamic culture, their clothes were originally never "French" looking. I know many North Africans too and I never heard them talking about "Arab supremacy", they still do remember million killed and tortured in Algeria though. Are you justifying colonialism and oppression of those countries? Banning of their way of dressing and language? 

 

[Melech 9,900]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

You are in no position to bash something if you believe your country should follow the same route - order someone how to dress. 

I'm talking about this one specific issue, so don't try to twist my words.

North Africa is pretty much Arabic, some might call themselves Berbers, but they speak Arabic for centuries and they have Islamic culture, their clothes were originally never "French" looking. I know many North Africans too and I never heard them talking about "Arab supremacy", they still do remember million killed and tortured in Algeria though. Are you justifying colonialism and oppression of those countries? Banning of their way of dressing and language? 

 

Well, I know also some North Africans and a lot refer them as Berber. E.g http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/03/24/matriarchal-traditions-in-north-africa-under-threat-from-islamists-and-arab-elites/

Just because many don't talk about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exists.

And nope i'm not justyfing anything.

[TiphEret 1,320]

On 06/12/2016 at 10:59 AM, lego said:

What is with this obsession with burqa?

 

The obsession is more with people discomfort you mean! And also brain washing

On 06/12/2016 at 11:00 AM, Cocaine Heart said:

'Progressive' countries and the 'western values' wanting to tell women what to wear. Actually wanting to force women not to wear something they want to wear. Also it has nothing to do with Sharia Law.

The level of ignorance though.

Yep 

On 06/12/2016 at 10:52 AM, Melech said:

“Showing your face is essential for our communication, co-existence and social cohesion and that's why we're asking everyone to show their faces,” he added. “We want to introduce a law to make people show their faces and that means that those who break that law will have to face the consequences.”

This is by far the most idiotic thing she could come up with! So now Germany is a society where showing your face is above everything? Is this a free country or what? Such argument is so counter productive. We know anyway she just wants the vote that the far right would get instead. 

On 06/12/2016 at 11:16 AM, Luc said:

She just wants to unite her party. If she can get gay marriage from the CSU in return it's all okay.

 

Let's remember that Merkel almost lost her political career because she saw it as a necessity to accept refugees (with a million refugees in 2015 alone getting to Germany). Merkel is in no way Islamophobic nor xenophobic and her argument about social cohesion and integration is actually quite a good one I hadn't heard before (and way better than the security argument IMO).

I just think it's worded a little bit too harshly. As a chancellor it's still your job to make no one feel left out or excluded. While most muslims don't wear burqas, many do see banning burqas as an attack on 'them'. 

I agree with your analysis.

On 06/12/2016 at 11:19 AM, KingOfSpain said:

A true reverse Warholian expedition

 

You don't seem to know much about situation of Iran before and now, this is quite embarrassing...