Netherlands to ban Burqa in public spaces

[PartySick 172,545]

Guys, please try to stay respectful while arguing your point.

Thanks

[Nicole 1,809]

2 hours ago, Melech said:

Okay,tell me the other solutions.

And are you okay with people wearing clown maskets ?

Or that in countries like Saudi Arabia it is forced to wear a veil?

 

I honestly do not care what people wear over their face. I have never felt threatened because of people wearing a burka or a clown mask, or a ski mask, face paint - i don't care. And we're not talking about Saudi Arabia, we're talking about Europe, where women are not forced to wear it under societal standards/laws so don't pull a different country's oppression of women as an excuse to act as some white saviour in a completely different demographic.

If there were circumstances where you needed to confirm the identification of a woman in a burka, it's not that hard to treat them humanely and offer to take them somewhere private and remove any male presence so they can cooperate without feeling humiliated and/or forced.

2 hours ago, Dayum said:

They are allowed if they remove their headpiece. You speak of other ways to go about but do not specify them...

For starters, letting a parent to walk into the school their child attends regardless of religious attire is a simple way to "go about it". A piece of fabric is not threatening for ****s sake. If other parents/teachers were threatened by such they should be the ones that refrain from going to 'protect' others from their ignorance. As I mentioned above, adjusting any process of identity confirmation is not that hard. People make it seem like a task and a half when all it takes a patience and understanding that the woman in a burka in front of them has religious beliefs just like many other people and should be respected for such.

[Whispering 18,865]

1 hour ago, Tim Konings said:

Google is your friend

We are on a forum with Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. It shouldn't be a chore to answer a simple question. I'm not really religious, but if someone asked a question about the religion I grew up in, I would gladly take the time to answer their question as best as I could.

This forum is a place for discussion, where those of us who have been here for years feel comfortable asking questions and can get information from our friends. You will learn that in time, Newbie. 

[TheJackMonster 1,857]

how will enigma popstar wear it for fun now?

[SlaeUrAnus 16,111]

This is a tough decision.

Religion should freely express themselves in whatever clothing they feel comfortable in. Although, it is a possible security threat. White, black, Muslim or whatever, if you hide behind a burqa or balaclava and commit a crime, it is almost impossible to be caught.

[Luc 4,776]

5 hours ago, Goosey said:

There is no reason you need to see their face. What problems has the burqa caused in the Netherlands? Let's see: made some xenophobes uncomfortable. That's it.

it gave the far right some extra seats in parliament

 

 

I don't see the problem with islamophobia by the way - it is (imo) completely okay to be critical of religions and to criticize parts you dislike, just like how I criticize Trump's ideas. Nothing wrong with strong negative sentiments against a religion, as long as you realize that the people who practise the religion are different.

Xenophobia is different though, and this law is rooted more in xenophobia.

[Melech 9,900]

5 hours ago, RichAssPiss said:

"Those are two different pair of shoes"

Really? 

My comment is not transphobic. It is about bigoted lines of logic. "Safety" is often raised to discriminate. I never said being trans and veiled are the same....shoes? Since you like that dumb analogy. I said that comparable bigoted rhetoric has been used in both cases. Muslim women have every right to wear a religious garb. If you believe in thw freedom of religion, it is essential to support this right.

I don't really get the rhetoric of using personal insult during a discussion. 

And no I don't believe in the freedom of religion when it can harm other people. Btw do you think it should be allowed to walk around naked?

[Melech 9,900]

3 hours ago, Nicole said:

I honestly do not care what people wear over their face. I have never felt threatened because of people wearing a burka or a clown mask, or a ski mask, face paint - i don't care. And we're not talking about Saudi Arabia, we're talking about Europe, where women are not forced to wear it under societal standards/laws so don't pull a different country's oppression of women as an excuse to act as some white saviour in a completely different demographic.

If there were circumstances where you needed to confirm the identification of a woman in a burka, it's not that hard to treat them humanely and offer to take them somewhere private and remove any male presence so they can cooperate without feeling humiliated and/or forced.

White savior complex? Let's see what actual Muslims say about this in my country for example. In this case Ahmad Mansour, an arab muslim psychologist: 

"Die Burka ist kein religionsfreiheitliches Symbol, wie Kanzlerin Angela Merkel meint, und sie gehört nicht zur Vielfalt in der Gesellschaft. Sie ist nichts anderes als ein Unterdrückungsmechanismus Frauen gegenüber. Es ist eine Schande, dass die Burka auf europäischen Straßen geduldet wird. Sie muss unbedingt verboten werden, weil es genauso frauenverachtend ist, sie zu dulden."

"the burqa is not a religious symbol as Chancellor Merkel said and it doesn't belong into the diversity of our society. It is nothing else than a oppression mechanism against a woman. It's a shame that it is allowed in european streets. It should be urgent banned because it's against woman to allow it" 

There is rather a white savior complex to support this kind of stuff and think that Muslims/Islam can't deal with criticism. 

 

Also should it also be respected to kill gays because of religious beliefs? Or even homophobia? 

[Melech 9,900]

5 hours ago, ZacharyMark said:

Did I say that? Stay on point.

I clearly asked why this is all of a sudden trying to become law. And there's obvious implications of xenophobia everywhere at this point. Coincidence? Maybe, but it seems odd to suddenly make a law that would ban ski masks and burqas. Again, has there been a rise in crime due to this?

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/weltgeschehen/article13578810/Mit-Burka-verschleierter-Raeuber-ueberfaellt-Spielhalle.html For example: a person with a Burqa attacked a casino. Never got caught. 

[mic 1,415]

Good it feels kind of out of place to see female slavery happening casually on the streets

[Lee Ng 1,497]

So do you guys know this girl ? Ban ha

 

[MoonIsRising 2,816]

Do you wanna see me naked lover behind the burqa ? 

Spoiler

but guys seriously it's already banned in France and other countries and nobody have a problem with that, it's just that now we live in a new society with a new term: laicity/secularism 

Spoiler

 

[lego 44,165]

Idk why is it that usually MEN who open these topics and it's often MEN who are arguing so passionately about what Muslim WOMEN should and should not wear. They're not that different from the theocratic countries' leaders they like to criticize. 

The hypocrisy when feminist guy gives argument for abortion (for example) - "women should be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies", but in the same breath he'll say "women should not be allowed to dress however they want because "liberal Europe, makes people uncomfortable, female slavery, safety reasons" - all buzz words to hide own islamophobia. And some even say it doesn't exist or that it's justified. 

If there would be a trend for some criminals to dress like ultra orthodox Jews and rob a bank, no one would campaign for ban of their religious garments and those little side curls. Minority of Muslim women in the West who want to wear niqabs are not a threat to safety.

These laws are only made to keep them inside four walls and further isolate them, instead of helping them integrate. 

Quoting Daniel Pipes about anything related to Muslims is like quoting someone from Stormfront about anything related to Jews. These people have a clear agenda. 

Far-right leaders in Europe have this as one of their most important policies, 'cause it's important to erase anything islamic from Christian Europe. That's why they are against mosques too. Burqinis and hijabs are next, maybe even beards. It's interesting how liberals can sound a lot like far right radicals. 

Don't bother to quote me. This thread is just full of hate and ignorance. This law won't prevent any criminal activity of those who want to harm people, it's painfully obvious. 

 

[Saint Laurent 4,862]

Good. 

The UK next please.

[Melech 9,900]

7 minutes ago, lego said:

Idk why is it that usually MEN who open these topics and it's often MEN who are arguing so passionately about what Muslim WOMEN should and should not wear. They're not that different from the theocratic countries' leaders they like to criticize. 

The hypocrisy when feminist guy gives argument for abortion (for example) - "women should be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies", but in the same breath he'll say "women should not be allowed to dress however they want because "liberal Europe, makes people uncomfortable, female slavery, safety reasons" - all buzz words to hide own islamophobia. And some even say it doesn't exist or that it's justified. 

If there would be a trend for some criminals to dress like ultra orthodox Jews and rob a bank, no one would campaign for ban of their religious garments and those little side curls. Minority of Muslim women in the West who want to wear niqabs are not a threat to safety.

These laws are only made to keep them inside four walls and further isolate them, instead of helping them integrate. 

Quoting Daniel Pipes about anything related to Muslims is like quoting someone from Stormfront about anything related to Jews. These people have a clear agenda. 

Far-right leaders in Europe have this as one of their most important policies, 'cause it's important to erase anything islamic from Christian Europe. That's why they are against mosques too. Burqinis and hijabs are next, maybe even beards. It's interesting how liberals can sound a lot like far right radicals. 

Don't bother to quote me. This thread is just full of hate and ignorance. This law won't prevent any criminal activity of those who want to harm people, it's painfully obvious. 

 

No one in this thread is against Muslims. If a Christian or a Jew would wear something like a Burqa people would also be against it. 

And the thing with islamophobia is that actually some muslim in this thread and even more in real world are against burqas. Would you consider them islamophobic as well? You make it sound like every Muslim woman is wearing a burqa and that it is the most islamic thing ever.