Why I Admire Gaga Less Now

[lego 44,165]

5 hours ago, Bebe said:

That was a lot to read

I disagree that Gaga plays the victim, I don't think she is trying to create this "I've overcome so much, I'm amazing" narrative. I do think that she is open about her struggles, but we also saw in one of her first interviews with The Rolling Stone her reluctance to talk about some of her darker experiences (likely the sexual assault she revealed later)

You have a lot of things in your behavior that are signs of someone who had a traumatic experience in adolescence or childhood. Is that something you would ever discuss publicly?
Probably not.

When Christina Aguilera began talking about the dark issues in her past — growing up around domestic abuse — there was no negative response to it, and it ended up informing her work.
[Hesitates] I feel like I tell this story in my own way, and my fans know who I really am. I don't want to teach them the wrong things. And you also have to be careful about how much you reveal to people that look up to you so much. They know who I am. They know how they can relate to me. I've laid it all on the table. And if they're smart like you, they make that assessment, but I don't want to be a bad example.

A bad example in the sense of being a victim?
Yeah, and I'm not a victim. And my message is positive. My show has a lovely naivete and melancholy to it: a pop melancholy. That's my art. If I told that other story in that way, I don't know if that's the best way I can help the universe.

Because if you did talk about it, then things you did would be misinterpreted and seen through that experience?
Yeah. Maybe if I was writing my own book or something. I guess it's hard to . . . . If I say one thing in our interview right now, it will be all over the world the day after it hits the stands. And it would be twisted and turned. And it's like you have to honor some things. Some things are sacred.

I understand.
There are some things that are so traumatic, I don't even fully remember them. But I will say wholeheartedly that I had the most wonderful mother and father. I was never abused. I didn't have a bad childhood. All of the things I went through were on my own quest for an artistic journey to **** myself up like Warhol and Bowie and Mick, and just go for it.

That's interesting that you have this idea that the artist has to expose himself to these dark parts of life.
You do, but all of the trauma I caused to myself [pauses]. Or it was caused by people that I met when being outrageous and irresponsible. What I'm trying to say is that I like to, within moderation, respect that I'm not Mick Jagger or David Bowie, and I don't just have fans that are a certain age. There are, like, nine-year-olds listening to my music, so I guess I try to be respectful of them if at all possible.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-broken-heart-and-violent-fantasies-of-lady-gaga-20100708

Did she go through a period of self destructive behaviour? Absolutely - it's not really that uncommon, for young rebellious people. She talks about her desire to go out and really go for it without much concern for her safety, to '**** herself up' like Warhol, Mick and Bowie (A lot of that looks like survivors response to abuse though, that it was her fault 'all of the trauma I caused to myself [pauses]. Or it was caused by people that I met when being outrageous and irresponsible').

She talks about what happened in her early years as something she is to blame for due to her recklessness. That she caused her trauma by running into bad people when she was irresponsible.

She also expresses that she doesn't want to go into her trauma at that time though and talks about how she isn't a victim. I don't fault Gaga for showing some real emotion and showing cracks in her persona - I don't think it's with the intention of looking like a victim, it's with the intention of being ****ing real with her audience.

I have nothing but love for Madonna too, but she dressed like a sad clown during her Rebel Heart tour and talked about how depressed she was over her son Rocco's custody battle.

She has had plenty of moments of weakness:

It's not a side of herself she shows us much, which is fine, but I think it's equally fine to open up in the way that Gaga does. I don't think that = playing the victim at all.

 

 

I love how this post was intentionally skipped. 

 

 

Bebe 

[giskardsb 12,565]

Here is the fundamental misunderstanding of the OP and Gaga's motivations..... she decided that she could help more people by being open about her struggles and letting others know that it was ok to work through these issues, rather than trying to hide from them or building facades.  She wanted people to know that there are different forms of strength, and sometimes it requires admitting to yourself things that have happened and dealing with them openly.  If you wonder why she keeps going "on and on" about it, it's because exactly of the type of victim shaming that is throughout the OP, and that the problem doesn't go away easily because of these patriarchal ideas of what it means to be "strong", and people not understanding the damage that can be done by not confronting issues.

 

[StarstruckIllusion 52,599]

5 hours ago, SychosSoChic said:

This thread is gonna be a lit mess

i live

 

5 hours ago, jojuun said:

No, what I'm saying is that they touch on their tragedies to, but they don't dwell on them. They source pure dedication out of those tragic moments. Gaga talks about them mostly. That's the difference.

Also, Madonna was raped. To used your own words "If we're gonna compare..."

So that's the death of her mother aged 5, financial setback, an emotionally unavailable strict father and rape in her early adulthood.

Compared to self-inflicted drug use and the death of an aunt Gaga never even knew.

Like I said in my OP, it's not a contest. But if "we're going to compare..." like you put it so eloquently.

Lmao at you backpedalling so quickly. If it wasn't a contest, Madonna's name wouldn't show up in every other sentence. 

[gagzus 15,852]

Stopped reading the second you started to feel the need to compare her to other artists and victim blaming her but I will tell you that all these female artists (and since you're using Beyoncé and Madge as an example I'm using.m this term lightly) are strong and gaga educating and explaining her struggles isn't a weakness, perfection is a weakness more than vulnerability because everyone knows perfection is all false. 

I admire and love gaga personally because she isn't afraid to be human and she's humble also the fact she's her own person and wants to make whatever music she likes and the closer we get to the end of her contract the looser her labels input reigns become see The Fame vs Joanne I expect her to do the right thing and leave her label when her contracts up tbh. 

Also if I may say as I scroll down and skim you seem to make a lot of comparisons and mentions of Madonna whom I understand you love but I personally don't understand why tbh. 

And finally as for your criticism of her affiliation to her aunt, I should remind you her aunt is the reason she's here because her aunt'a death made her father protective, her father'a overprotective nature made her rebel, her rebellion made her into the persona she was when she broke the mold and changed the pop scene and the rest is history 

[gagzus 15,852]

Plus this all stems from the fact fans can't stand she isn't the biggest female artist and isn't rehashing her first two albums. Period. 

 

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

Eh, you don't like her for being weak? Fame has its perks, but it also destroys a lot of people. Lady Gaga most definitely struggled post BTW with health issues and very harsh criticism toward, in my opinion, her best album (ARTPOP). I was honestly hoping she'd take all that negativity and hurt and use it to make her next album. She did. 

Lady Gaga should be commended for taking her pain and perceived weakness and turning it into a wonderful, celebrated album. She is incredibly confident and created an album that was incredibly risky and she has completely owned the album and aesthetic this era. She's not insecure like it seemed she was during the end of ARTPOP. 

How that is considered weak, I don't know. But why someone's human flaw, such as weakness, is off-putting...I don't know either. 

[VOLANTIS 16,405]

I read and I do see your point. But I'd just like to point out that Madonna has very openly talked about drugs at a point in her life as well. Has songs about her mother and father as well. Done very personal interviews about tragedies as well. And all this at a comparably early stage in her career. Now compare Madonna's iconic and lengthy artistic career with Gaga's which just hit 8 years. Gaga talks about her life in order to approach her younger and emotionally tender fans who are misinformed or misguided about their relative situations by society. This has always been Gaga. Her being vocal about her life encouraged a lot of people to see life differently. As Gaga said she has a moral obligation as a celebrity to make the world a better place. And admire that about both Gaga and Madonna. I don't need to remind you how strongly Madonna believes in causes as well. 

[Elizabeth 450]

I think it's kinda messed up to compare how people deal with incidents in their lives. Whatever has happened to Madonna in her life is different than what's happened to Gaga which is different to what has happened to Beyonce. People all have their own coping mechanisms and I think to say Gaga is somehow 'lesser' because she appears to be far more vocal about hers is so wrong, if that's how she deals with it, then that's the way it is. I don't really think whether you agree with that or not is relevant.

What is it about Gaga's contradictions that makes you think of her less? Or made you get to this point where you've written an extremely long post about it? (I don't mean that in a rude way, I'm genuinely interested considering she's been like this since forever so why only now has it begun to annoy you?) 

 

Gaga's a complicated person and I personally find it easier just to take some of what she says with a pinch of salt. Gaga's an 'unreliable narrator' and what she says is never going to always add up or make perfect sense and I think when you understand that it's so much easier just to enjoy her. 

 

[VANTABLACK 7,793]

I think this is why Gaga stopped being friends with Perez 

But if someone wrote /said this to me I would be hurt , regardless if it was true or not 

[President Trump 3,508]

YES YES YES. A MILLION TIMES YES.

 

BRO. You put into words my exact thoughts. Don't listen to the nay-Sayers here. You are 100% correct. About everything. I read it all. Gaga has overblown this victim card endlessly. I would like my pop star to get OVER things sometimes. She even turned Perfect Illusion into a sad, depressing emotional ballad at the piano... When that's not the spirit of the song! (No little monsters, don't quote that - I know she can interpret her music however she wishes).

 

but there is no STRENGTH to her. She even f*cking blamed her own fans during born this way and ARTPOP for being too negative. What the f*ck? Everything with her is a sob story. During TF and TFM she had a sense of humor, it didn't phase her. She was an inspiration! Then she lost it during born this way, but I thought maybe that was just the spirit of the album , to be depressed and vulnerable(although how great would it have been if she had actually been strong during that era).

 

but then she NEVER GOT OVER IT! And now it's two/three eras later! She is never going back to that strong person she was before. She just can't handle it.

 

its even to the point where I almost feel that her anti-bullying stance is projection onto the rest of the world for her own weaknesses.

 

It's just not something I can get behind. Joanne died before she was even born. I have an uncle that died before I was born. My mom was NEVER the same, it effects her to this day. But I would NEVER write an album about him, tell people to call me his name, and do all this other stuff, like this is some tragedy that affected HER personally, not from the behavior of her father, but directly from the death of her aunt. She didn't even know her!!! I won't harp on that because maybe it is something more to her than the same scenario is to me. She's allowed that lenience. 

 

But, it's just so frustrating. She is just not strong. She gave the impression of strength when she first started, but then she immediately crumbled. You're right. She IS trying to spin some pretty mediocre events into some major career story. I mean it was f*cking mediocre. We were all there. she had bad management and didn't get her way a few times. Breaking a hip is bad medically, so I'm sorry for that. But it's time to get over it. 

[Supersonic 49,376]

You sound like somebody I would not like to be friends with under any circumstance because they would make me feel guilty for opening up about my struggles instead of giving emotional support.

[Jed 7,716]

I'm definitely not gonna like her less because she's not acting like she's above having issues.. I mean it's not like she's whining about Taylor divorcing her. A lot of the songs on joanne are about overcoming struggles not wallowing in self pity

[Supersonic 49,376]

You know what, if it wasn't for people like you, who shame people for reaching out and saying "I need help sometimes. I struggle." Jimmy would still be here.

You need to back all the way off.

To anybody else reading: If you have depression, mental health issues, suicidal feelings: You can call on me. Not everyone will mock you once you open up. I'm here and I want you alive.

[Guest ARTPOPSlays]

I don't really agree with this but I'm glad your sharing this with us I guess. And she's been doing that for almost a decade (turning her weaknesses into strengths). Just look at songs like Born This Way, and The Queen. Those are just two examples. She wants to show people that she's a person too and it's okay to speak about this stuff. She's teaching people a very valuable lesson and I admire her for that 

[Gabi 685]

i think you should only judge( on a artistic level) her on vocals and live performances, that what i do,  thinking about her personal and behind the scenes work life its not pratical at all, we dont know **** and she lies a lot