Why I Admire Gaga Less Now

[jojuun 4,159]

Hey guys, first of all let me get started by saying this is in no way meant to hurt Gaga or upset any of you who feel passionate about defending Gaga in these kind of seemingly "negative" threads. I do not mean to be hurtful or derogatory towards anyone, it's just simply what I've been feeling for a long time now and I'm hoping to see a real discussion about this and share thoughts on this subject. I would like it to be done in a respectful manner so please refrain yourselves from saying I'm a "bad fan" or reply with shady gif's and emoji's that serve little purpose in a section where it's supposed to be all about discussion of our personal opinions. Let's be kind towards one another. 



After the recent news of Kanye's mental breakdown, watching last night's AMA's where Selena Gomez gave her emotional speech, seeing Gaga react to that in the audience and Gaga's struggles over the past years and her recent Instagram posts about the subject: I've figured out why I am still a fan of Gaga but am not as big of an admirer as I used to be. Or how much more admiration I feel now when I look at Madonna's astonishing career for instance.

I don't like the "weakness" of it all. I like my idols to overcome their biggest struggles and not go on about it endlessly publicly.

Let me dive in a little more.

I get the feeling there's this entire victim thing going on with a lot of the current generation of popstars. I get that this is a post-Britney Tumblr generation and Britney's struggle with fame has been famously captured by every single camera ever and I do agree with the general appreciation that she's come a really long way since then. I've always rooted for Brit, I've always felt that she was being authentic during that time. But even Britney in 2008, crying in front of a camera, clearly struggling with mental illness, sat down in her post-breakdown documentary For The Record on probably tens of mood-stabilizers and said clearly that she dislikes being seen as a victim. I feel like Gaga, in a way, has found comfort in being a public "victim" of her success ever since she had her meteoric rise to fame in 2008. I think she really finds comfort in the heroic "I overcame something story". But I don't feel like it is justified. I don't feel like it is authentically hers. I think there's something really, really dark inside of her that wishes she had a more dramatic life story than she really does, just so it makes her a bigger legend when a biography is published and someone looks at her life 100 years from now. 

In Gaga's Anderson Cooper hosted 60 Minutes special, in the early days of the Born This Way era, she was so cocky during the segment where she talks about "the art of fame". She spoke about people wanting to see her fail, the demise and downfall of a superstar. She claimed that she had studied that pattern and implied that she was not heading down that path. Minutes later during the same special, she was shown crying on a staircase and the clip of her crying in her dressing room before a Monster Ball show was aired too. A complete contradiction. "The master of fame" at 8 PM, a self-proclaimed victim of it by 8:05 PM. During that same period, she flat-out told Vanity Fair she was on drugs for anxiety and implied that she, before her fame and high-profile career, took drugs at a young age to inflict a struggle upon herself. She said, and I quote: "I used to pray every night that God would make me crazy."

The full quote is even more upsetting. "I prayed that God would teach me something, that he would instill in me a creativity and a strangeness that all of those people that I love and respected had." It has always bothered me. What the f*ck is that about?

Don't get me wrong here... I do believe Gaga has personal struggles and demons. I do believe that mega-fame is really hard to handle. But I also believe she knew that beforehand.  She said so herself countless times. The Paparazzi video is about it, for goodness sake. I believe she knew the amount of scrutiny she was going to be under very, very well. Weeks before Just Dance dropped, she was photographed by a random streetstyle photographer in New York, while walking around with her mother. The blogger/photographer asked for her name and she said "Lady Gaga". The photographer looked at her like "What kind of name is that?" And she quickly replied to his confused face "You'll know it soon enough." 6 months later, she was the biggest new popstar in the world. She knew damn well what she was getting into. She WANTED to be a huge superstar, her parents had invested heaps of money into it, her father registered corporations (he's listed in some of them) in Gaga's name months ahead of the final deal with Interscope so she could get a more-than-average cut of the royalties/publishing rights from her soon to be global hit-music. He knew. She knew. You don't send a teenager to the best vocal teacher in the world (Don Lawrence) for years if you do not see potential in that child. She was hungry for superstardom from the get-go. That's why she did endless shows and appearances in the beginning of her career. She worked like a maniac from 2008 until the end of 2011 because she wanted to be a superstar more than anything. 

I strongly feel like Gaga has inflicted a lot of her struggles upon herself in order to emulate the tumultuous, tragedy-filled lives of her personal idols and iconic stars. Even though I am sure she's intelligent enough to recognize that self-destructive tendency within herself and resist against it. Yet she didn't.

Mind you, all those quotes and the first anxiety pills came YEARS before Troy and the BTW Ball hip-break/ARTPOP mess. A lot of you think her struggles started there when it's well-documented the signs of self-inflicted struggles have always been there, her drug habit at 18/19/20/21 being one of them.

I truly believe Gaga has some kind of tragedy-wish, in the VF article she basically admits it. And like I said in the beginning of this post, slowly coming to this conclusion for myself over the past few months, has only made me appreciate someone like Madonna more. Madonna's mother died when she was five years old. She was very close to her and was even named after her mother. Her father always refused to talk about grief or emotions and she wasn't allowed to talk about it either. He was a very disciplined father who insisted Madonna would be academically successful instead of supporting her dream to become a professional dancer. She has 7 siblings, didn't have a lot growing up (opposed to Gaga's privileged upbringing, even if she likes to call it "middle-class") and had to move to New York as a young adult to pursue her dreams all by herself (as opposed to Gaga's parents paying for her elite education, expensive vocal teachers, allowed to perform at talent showcases in nightclubs aged 14, prestigious higher education at an expensive art school and her father helping her out business-wise before her career even went anywhere).

I think that kind of Madonna-esque American Dream biography that smells of light heroism is honestly what Gaga has always longed for. From the get-go she's talked openly about her drug abuse, about her dead aunt and now there's a song and an entire album dedicated to it... Why is that? I'm sure it HAS impacted her in some way. How could it not? But I think there's a self-destructiveness inside of her more than anything that's at the root of her struggles and I don't like that because I know that she knows that too. That's not what I saw in her when I first became a fan (which is why I chose the 2008 picture in the beginning of this post). I feel like back then, she made a conscious decision not to let that twisted side get the best of her. And then along the road, it became kind of convenient to use it as her own personal "hero" biography and as an excuse for being, I'm going to say it y'all (don't get upset), kind of mediocre. Let me be clear here, I don't think she's mediocre in the talent departement. She's an outstanding vocalist and performer. But the hunger, the discipline and dedication she showcased at the start of her career has been lost. There's no denying it anymore now. Someone with a non self-inflicted backstory like Madonna has never lost that. Madonna is 4 decades into her career. She's still a massive star and the only one from her generation that is not tragically dead (Michael, Prince, Whitney...) or faded into oblivion. She is incredibly, incredibly disciplined and dedicated and most importantly: not self-destructive. Gaga knows that, by the way. Why do you think she went on about Madonna in the Beats 1 Radio interview like that recently? Here's the quote:

"I'm not just rehearsing over and over again to put on a show like Madonna. There's a spontaneity in my work. I allow myself to fail, I allow myself to break. I'm not afraid of my flaws. There are major differences between me and her." 

I think that bold part says it all. Gaga sees it as a strength, while I consider it as her biggest flaw. I think she needs to resist that self-destructive side. She's still hinting about recreational drug use (not the medical kind) on Joanne. For someone who's always posting about ways to deal with chronic pain and mental health, I think that's incredibly stupid. Why would you f*ck yourself up some more when you are fighting against inner-demons and are aware of that? Some like Amy Winehouse clearly wasn't able to think clear in her darkest moments. Gaga is, cause she's posting about them during those times on Instagram.

I like strength in my idols and not in the look-at-what-I-overcame way Gaga is doing it.

Madonna went to her mother's grave in her Truth Or Dare documentary. The scene was obviously edited to make the viewer feel sorry for her. But it was obvious, transparent even. Madonna wasn't crying for the camera either. It wasn't "feel sorry for me" cinema. It was "look at the fact I'm on a cemetery next to my dead mother who I've only known as an infant and the way I turned that negative into a positive. Be inspired." It's brief and it's used as a short passage to make the viewer aware that you can bend any negative into a positive. But she didn't actually need to hashtag that on Instagram or dwell endlessly about it like Gaga has over the past few years.

Or look at Beyoncé. Who has talked about miscarriages. But, just like Madonna personal tragedy, it was brief. It was never used as some kind of excuse but rather as a brief moment of inspiration. Beyoncé was puking backstage in between songs during one of her most iconic sets (Glastonbury 2011). She said that once and never brought it up again on her own. She and Madonna are the perfect examples of the ultimate showcasing of strength. They go forward, they don't dwell on the past. Self-inflicted drug use and the death of an aunt you never even knew, I'm sorry, they don't weigh up in my book when you compare them to the death of your mother or the loss of your unborn child. Of course, it is not a "pain contest" but I'm just wondering why these two other women can use that as a stomping ground where they source strength from and Gaga writes a song like Joanne and then says "I allow myself to break." Publicly. As if it some kind of achievement. She could've just put it in the music like Madonna & Bey (songs like 'Promise To Try' and 'I Was Here' spring to mind). But no. It's always coming back in interviews. Endlessly.

I feel like Gaga genuinely likes the victim role and also the quite unauthentic praise she gets because of it.

Thoughts?

(And don't even bother with saying mental illness is serious and needs more public awareness. Of course it is and of course it does, she could still do that. Things like the BTW-Foundation and the Born Brave Bus could've still happened without Gaga going on endlessly about it for years. And I still love her. I just don't like the self-destructing, then victimising herself because of it part of her.)

[aaronyoji 2,054]

well sorry (/notsorry) but thats selfish, and kind of illogical/stupid. i honestly just think this is an apologist mindset and double standard towards gaga vs other legends. she can't be vulnerable, but madonna and beyonce can because they're "empowered strong independent women" which, one has based their entire early image on the male fantasy while the other exploited the middle class struggle of single parenthood and then made their supposedly cheating husband rich because of it. 

also, gaga was raped, does sexual assault not stack up at all? i mean, if we're gonna compare.... 

this idea that a woman is only strong through not being visibly vulnerable is actually not as feminist as people think. 

[joannesrats 26]

I'm too lazy to read this whole thing because it's an essay about how you don't like someone as much anymore, but her reaction to Selena was pure. She did not know that she would be on camera. That was what she was feeling in that moment, let her live.

[PeterPan 0]

My thoughts are your post is way to long for me to read it all

[artRaver 3,188]

Yes, preach honey! Don't speak about your mental illness or struggles because it makes you seem enjoy being a victim! F*ck relating with people who go through the same things as you.  

[The Surrealist 27,470]

I stopped reading as soon as I saw Madonna's name.

[SychosSoChic 9,995]

This thread is gonna be a lit mess

i live

[FATCAT 60,044]

Wow, my reason for demoting her from my #1 position was simply her new "work ethic" she learned from ARTPOP

[jojuun 4,159]

4 minutes ago, aaronyoji said:

well sorry (/notsorry) but thats selfish, and kind of illogical/stupid. i honestly just think this is an apologist mindset and double standard towards gaga vs other legends. she can't be vulnerable, but madonna and beyonce can because they're "empowered strong independent women" which, one has based their entire early image on the male fantasy while the other exploited the middle class struggle of single parenthood and then made their supposedly cheating husband rich because of it. 

also, gaga was raped, does sexual assault not stack up at all? i mean, if we're gonna compare.... 

No, what I'm saying is that they touch on their tragedies to, but they don't dwell on them. They source pure dedication out of those tragic moments. Gaga talks about them mostly. That's the difference.

Also, Madonna was raped. To used your own words "If we're gonna compare..."

So that's the death of her mother aged 5, financial setback, an emotionally unavailable strict father and rape in her early adulthood.

Compared to self-inflicted drug use and the death of an aunt Gaga never even knew.

Like I said in my OP, it's not a contest. But if "we're going to compare..." like you put it so eloquently.

[PeterPan 0]

10 minutes ago, petedagrk said:

My thoughts are your post is way to long for me to read it all

Im sorry that this post was bad

[He8MyHeart 9,765]

A very interesting read 

[aaronyoji 2,054]

2 minutes ago, jojuun said:

No, what I'm saying is that they touch on their tragedies to, but they don't dwell on them. They source pure dedication out of those tragic moments. Gaga talks about them mostly. That's the difference.

Also, Madonna was raped. To used your own words "If we're gonna compare..."

So that's the death of her mother aged 5, financial setback, an emotionally unavailable strict father and rape in her early adulthood.

Compared to self-inflicted drug use and the death of an aunt Gaga never even knew.

Like I said in my OP, it's not a contest. But if "we're going to compare..." like you put it so eloquently.

how is gaga less dedicated and motivated than the others based off of how open she is about her problems? is openly discussing it when interviewers ask in regards to the main theme of her album, somehow not strength?? also, to put into context, gaga's main crux with joanne is not that she personally knew her, but that joanne had an impact on gaga's family directly, particularly her dad. its like, a third party observation, pain through seeing the pain of others. i don't see how gaga acknowledging the heartache of her aunts death on her parents/family members is a self inflicted problem, or something gaga is using as a means of pity. 

[jojuun 4,159]

5 minutes ago, petedagrk said:

My thoughts are your post is way to long for me to read it all

7 minutes ago, PhillipBagshaw said:

I'm too lazy to read this whole thing because it's an essay about how you don't like someone as much anymore.

Oh look, you felt the need to post even when you don't know what you're replying to. How very intelligent of you.

6 minutes ago, SychosSoChic said:

This thread is gonna be a lit mess

Like I said, that's not my intention. I still LOVE Gaga. I still ROOT for her. I just think she has a tendency to inflict struggles upon herself while being aware of it. I don't get that. Why would you say you're aware of it, then take some more amphetamines and go deeper into your downword spiral? The first step to healing, any therapist will tell you this, is being aware of the problem and traps. She's aware of the traps and the problem, she's told us. So why can't she escape it? Why does she go back to self-destruction time and time again? That's the topic I'd like to discuss here.

[Computer 10,973]

I love how much thought and time you put into this post, and I did read it all.

I agree with a lot of the way you analyzed Gaga and the dark parts inside her that drove her to become a superstar.  I love thinking about her motivations.

I think where I diverge a little is that the new Gaga/Joanne/victim act that you described doesn't feel like a weakness to me as much as it feels like just another performance.  So in that way I still think that she's portraying strength in the sense that she likes what she is talking about and what she is doing.  It doesn't totally feel authentic to me but that's fine for me because I see a lot of what she does as still a big performance, like always.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

[PeterPan 0]

1 minute ago, jojuun said:

Oh look, you felt the need to post even when you don't know what you're replying to. How very intelligent of you.

Like I said, that's not my intention. I still LOVE Gaga. I still ROOT for her. I just think she has a tendency to inflict struggles upon herself while being aware of it. I don't get that. Why would you say you're aware of it, then take some more amphetamines and go deeper into your downword spiral? The first step to healing, any therapist will tell you this, is being aware of the problem and traps. She's aware of the traps and the problem, she's told us. So why can't she escape it? Why does she go back to self-destruction time and time again? That's the topic I'd like to discuss here.

I apologize for not reading it all and replying.