BREAKING: Court rules Brexit must be voted on by Parliament

[Morphine Prince 109,654]

Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the EU, the High Court has ruled.

This means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal exit negotiations with the EU - on its own.

Theresa May says the referendum - and existing ministerial powers - mean MPs do not need to vote, but campaigners called this unconstitutional.

The government is appealing, with a further hearing expected next month.

A statement is to be made to MPs on Monday but the prime minister's official spokesman said the government had "no intention of letting" the judgement "derail Article 50 or the timetable we have set out. We are determined to continue with our plan".

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn urged the government "to bring its negotiating terms to Parliament without delay", adding that "there must be transparency and accountability to Parliament on the terms of Brexit".

And UKIP leader Nigel Farage said he feared a "betrayal" of the 51.9% of voters who backed leaving the EU in June's referendum and voiced concern at the prospect of a "half Brexit".

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785

 

[tomsches 17,550]

Don't know how to feel about this. I mean I was strongly against the Brexit, but now indeed it feels like a betrayal. 

[Luc 4,776]

Not gonna change a thing for now. 

 

What will be interesting is when the negotiation process is over and every parliament in the EU (including regional assemblies, like in Belgium and Germany) including the UK have to vote on it:

- Poland, Romania and Bulgaria will want to secure that their people get access to the UK labour market, benefits, etc

- UK govt need a good deal for their own people, otherwise a majority won't be guaranteed

- Netherlands, Denmark, France and Italy need a tough deal that causes economic decline in the UK to make sure their countries never leave the EU

- France, Netherlands and Germany want restricted access for UK financial sector to EU so that those banks move to their country

- Eastern Europe doesn't trade much with UK and could care less about securing a good deal with the UK when it comes to trade. 

- European Parliament is filled with very passionately pro-EU people, would likely want the UK to see the negative effects

 

to sum up: UK is screwed.

[Noah 27,418]

13 minutes ago, Luc said:

Not gonna change a thing for now. 

 

What will be interesting is when the negotiation process is over and every parliament in the EU (including regional assemblies, like in Belgium and Germany) including the UK have to vote on it:

- Poland, Romania and Bulgaria will want to secure that their people get access to the UK labour market, benefits, etc

- UK govt need a good deal for their own people, otherwise a majority won't be guaranteed

- Netherlands, Denmark, France and Italy need a tough deal that causes economic decline in the UK to make sure their countries never leave the EU

- France, Netherlands and Germany want restricted access for UK financial sector to EU so that those banks move to their country

- Eastern Europe doesn't trade much with UK and could care less about securing a good deal with the UK when it comes to trade. 

- European Parliament is filled with very passionately pro-EU people, would likely want the UK to see the negative effects

 

to sum up: UK is screwed.

educational fish

wig off

[Janet 1,417]

As much as I really don't want to leave the EU, I think it is better at least for it to be managed by Parliament rather than by some committee behind closed doors. It was wrong for May to believe that she can be the executor of Article 50 without Parliamentary oversight. 

[Melech 9,900]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

 

- Poland, Romania and Bulgaria will want to secure that their people get access to the UK labour market, benefits, etc

 

you sure about that? I'm not really educated about those countries but isn't emigration rather bad for those countries?

[Luc 4,776]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

you sure about that? I'm not really educated about those countries but isn't emigration rather bad for those countries?

I don't know that much, but I'm sure the immigrants send back a lot of money and still vote in their national elections, so they'd want to secure a good deal with freedom of movement

[Saint Laurent 4,862]

All seems a bit too undemocratic for my liking.

[Benji 20,113]

Hopefully Theresa May can be shot down enough to cause an early general election so Jeremy can have a shot at coming in to sort this out and keep us in.

On 03/11/2016 at 1:15 PM, Luc said:

Not gonna change a thing for now. 

 

What will be interesting is when the negotiation process is over and every parliament in the EU (including regional assemblies, like in Belgium and Germany) including the UK have to vote on it:

- Poland, Romania and Bulgaria will want to secure that their people get access to the UK labour market, benefits, etc

- UK govt need a good deal for their own people, otherwise a majority won't be guaranteed

- Netherlands, Denmark, France and Italy need a tough deal that causes economic decline in the UK to make sure their countries never leave the EU

- France, Netherlands and Germany want restricted access for UK financial sector to EU so that those banks move to their country

- Eastern Europe doesn't trade much with UK and could care less about securing a good deal with the UK when it comes to trade. 

- European Parliament is filled with very passionately pro-EU people, would likely want the UK to see the negative effects

 

to sum up: UK is screwed.

Your summary is far off, delaying is perfect for the UK and in a situation where members of the EU all want different relationships with the UK, it's in fact the EU that will be harmed. They either have to agree to completely cut the tie and suffer losing access to the UK or put up with pretty much the UK's demands. The longer the EU struggles to reach a decision, the longer the UK will have to strengthen it's international relationships (which has already begun) and the UK will simply lower it's demands to leave as it won't need the EU.

I personally don't want to leave the EU (always said this, voted it too) and think there's a chance we won't now that the rest of parliament can be involved in the conversation which should be enough to force Theresa May out and an early general election if she can't trigger Article 50 early next year. IF we do still leave though, hey-ho. Everyone seems to be making a huge deal about how the UK will suffer huge losses etc. but don't seem to understand that the UK's been preparing for the "worse" the EU could possibly throw at it before the referendum even happened.

[Computer 10,980]

The Brexit is so messy.  I get that the EU is really new compared to the histories of each country, but it sounds as bad as NY or CA leaving the states.  I wouldn't want anything like that.

[Benji 20,113]

On 03/11/2016 at 3:33 PM, Saint Laurent said:

All seems a bit too undemocratic for my liking.

Meh, it's not.

We elect MPs to care for us and do what's in our best interest. If Theresa waltzed into Brussels and cuts a deal that's great for big corporations and the 1% (typical conservative behaviour), the rest of the country is left to deal with the fallout. This way, MPs get a chance to be involved and make sure that their own people get a fair deal in Brexit.

It can be used to delay Brexit until it can literally be cancelled by someone but that's only a small chance, one I'm holding onto

[paul 687]

9 minutes ago, Benji said:

Hopefully Theresa May can be shot down enough to cause an early general election so Jeremy can have a shot at coming in to sort this out and keep us in.

Your summary is far off, delaying is perfect for the UK and in a situation where members of the EU all want different relationships with the UK, it's in fact the EU that will be harmed. They either have to agree to completely cut the tie and suffer losing access to the UK or put up with pretty much the UK's demands. The longer the EU struggles to reach a decision, the longer the UK will have to strengthen it's international relationships (which has already begun) and the UK will simply lower it's demands to leave as it won't need the EU.

I personally don't want to leave the EU (always said this, voted it too) and think there's a chance we won't now that the rest of parliament can be involved in the conversation which should be enough to force Theresa May out and an early general election if she can't trigger Article 50 early next year. IF we do still leave though, hey-ho. Everyone seems to be making a huge deal about how the UK will suffer huge losses etc. but don't seem to understand that the UK's been preparing for the "worse" the EU could possibly throw at it before the referendum even happened.

If the UK has been preparing for this, why does it all feel like a disorganised mess? The only person that had a plan was Nicola Sturgeon

[Benji 20,113]

Just now, paul said:

If the UK has been preparing for this, why does it all feel like a disorganised mess? The only person that had a plan was Nicola Sturgeon

Prepared in the sense that when (if) we leave and get a bad deal, we won't suffer too many losses as we're branching out to other countries for deals and better relations. No one in parliament really wants to leave the EU because the whole process is long and a pain in the ass for everyone involved. Majority of MPs that want to leave either have some obscure views or want the "glory" of doing it.

Basically, we'll either delay this so long that it never happens or the whole fiasco will take so long that by the time we leave, we'd be intertwined with other countries more anyway and the EU won't be important to us.

Like I said above though, I hope we just delay it enough to cause an early general election and get Jeremy Corbyn in who won't let Brexit go ahead.

[Luc 4,776]

40 minutes ago, Benji said:

Hopefully Theresa May can be shot down enough to cause an early general election so Jeremy can have a shot at coming in to sort this out and keep us in.

Your summary is far off, delaying is perfect for the UK and in a situation where members of the EU all want different relationships with the UK, it's in fact the EU that will be harmed. They either have to agree to completely cut the tie and suffer losing access to the UK or put up with pretty much the UK's demands. The longer the EU struggles to reach a decision, the longer the UK will have to strengthen it's international relationships (which has already begun) and the UK will simply lower it's demands to leave as it won't need the EU.

I personally don't want to leave the EU (always said this, voted it too) and think there's a chance we won't now that the rest of parliament can be involved in the conversation which should be enough to force Theresa May out and an early general election if she can't trigger Article 50 early next year. IF we do still leave though, hey-ho. Everyone seems to be making a huge deal about how the UK will suffer huge losses etc. but don't seem to understand that the UK's been preparing for the "worse" the EU could possibly throw at it before the referendum even happened.

You're overestimating the UK's power and underestimating the EU's power and most of all the EU's unity. Remember that over 40% of the UK's trade is with the EU.

Especially in the light of the almost-failed Canadian trade deal, the failed refugee relocation scheme and such, the EU above all wants to show unity. All member states, from the most Euroskeptic (Poland, Denmark) to the most pro-EU (Germany) understand that. Especially Germany, France and Italy - the 'big three' right now - agree on that. And they have been unified in their response. Everyone with a major role in Brexit negotiations - from Verhofstadt to Merkel to Hollande to Renzi - has emphasised that for the UK to keep single market access it would have to accept the EU's four most fundamental principles, including Freedom of Movement.

And as for the negotating power on trade, remember that the EU, with 450 million people (excluding the UK), is more important for the UK, with 60 million people, than vice versa. Even the European countries most dependent on the UK, the Netherlands and Ireland, have a smaller portion of their export to the UK than the UK to the EU:

12% of the UK economy consists out of exports to the EU

3% of the Dutch economy, the economy that relies on the UK the most in the EU, consists out of export to the UK. Ireland actually has a negative account balance with the UK.

 

The EU obviously has the upper hand in negotiations. All parliaments in the EU (from Poland to Wallonia to Finland) have to accept the UK-EU agreement in the end (which for once is to the benefit of the EU). For the UK parliamentary involvement is a curse, but for the EU it's a blessing.

 

And finally the most important thing here is the political argument:

1. The EU leaders don't want the EU to break apart. They want visible negative repercussions for the UK, so that the Euroskeptic voices in the EU are no longer important. The fall of the pound and the general backlash back in June was already enough for 10% of Dutch people to change their minds about the EU from negative to positive. This is especially prevalent in countries like Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden and France - exactly the countries that have some of the strongest ties with Britain.

2. There's a general feeling of revenge in the EU population. People want to see the British face the repercussions for their stupid choice. Compare it to Greece: it's the economically responsible decision to provide Greece debt relief, but EU politicians took advantage of the public's emotions and played bad guy towards Greece, leading for example to Schäuble's highest approval ratings in years. The same will, to a lesser extent, happen to the UK.

 

 

if you think this is interesting, read the following:

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-should-be-offered-tough-brexit-terms-by-eu-survey-brits-eu/

http://www.politico.eu/article/france-plan-for-a-bloody-brexit-eu-referendum-consequences-europe-hollande-david-cameron/

 

meanwhile the EU will no longer be blocked by the UK in expanding its' geopolitical powers:

1. The UK has consistently blocked military integration of the EU

2. The UK has consistently blocked foreign policy integration of the EU

3. The UK has consistently pushed for expanding the EU in order to keep integration of the EU at a lower pace.

[destinyofself 1,006]

We voted to leave, this is bollocks! This will NEVER pass Parliament! I hate this country sometimes.