Critics don't understand Gaga's hybrid music

[StrawberryBlond 14,819]

40 minutes ago, tizian said:

THIS ! 

Critics can't handle her hybrid nature at all. When they look into her music (which happens very rarely, sadly) and try to analyze it they don't really take time for trying to understand it. They listen to the album once or twice and then state their opinion about it. So many of them described it as a ragbag of different influences and wrote it off as something negative just because it is different than pop yet it is still pop. 

What bugs me the most at the moment while reading through all those reviews is that 90 % of them tend to praise Mark Ronson and all other members of that album project yet Gaga is seen as if she hadn't been incooperated at all in the production process. I've even read that she just paid them to make her the new Amy Winehouse. 
It's ridiculous that those critics cannot appreciate what she's accomplished with this album and low-key deny her artistic ability by detailing the achievements of the producers behind that project while the artist herself is only mentioned with a smattering of lines.

I fail to understand why a cohesive album makes for a better album. If the songs are good, who cares what genre they are or if they flow well together or have a set story? If you love music, that stuff shouldn't matter. A cohesive album only matters if you're the type to put a physical copy on a CD player and invite people round to your house for a party. You can't do that with an album that's a mix of genres because there'll be sudden ballads that won't suit the occasion. Or you want to put on an album to relax and they'll be some loud ones in there. But who plays music like that anymore? In the age of technology where you can make custom playlists and only download the tracks you like from an album, does cohesion have any purpose anymore?

And yes, a very good point - the men working on it with her are praised, but she is seen as just a side dish, the dumb ditz who had to get all these talented men to help her make a good album because she sure as hell couldn't make it herself. Oh, yeah, it doesn't help that a lot of critics are middle aged males. It's no wonder they take this sexist view of things. I don't understand why men are seen as harbours of artistic prowess while women are not. The majority of my favourite artists have always been women. To me, they've always made more interesting songs. Male artists of the past were a lot better. There are few today who thrill me. They're too safe and predictable whereas women seem to want to push themselves.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And yes, a very good point - the men working on it with her are praised, but she is seen as just a side dish, the dumb ditz who had to get all these talented men to help her make a good album because she sure as hell couldn't make it herself. Oh, yeah, it doesn't help that a lot of critics are middle aged males. It's no wonder they take this sexist view of things. I don't understand why men are seen as harbours of artistic prowess while women are not. The majority of my favourite artists have always been women. To me, they've always made more interesting songs. Male artists of the past were a lot better. There are few today who thrill me. They're too safe and predictable whereas women seem to want to push themselves.

If Gaga was male she would be worshipped as MJ 2.0. 

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

2 hours ago, Enigma said:

o<(0_0)>o

One of the things that I have noticed about Gaga's music is that her music is usually a hybrid of many genres. The essence or backbone of her songs is always pop but the songs are always decorated with genres of all kinds. For example with TF/TFM the songs were pop music but their decoration included genres such as euro-disco, synth-pop, and electronic. With BTW, the songs were pop but their decoration included genres such as metal, mariachi, industrial, and house. And with ARTPOP, her pop songs were decorated with complextro, trap, and just in general all kinds of EDM. Now, with Joanne, Gaga has leaned more towards the non-pop genres, genres such as country, folk, glam, reggae,  and alternative rock, but the pop essence is still noticeable. 

Now, I have also noticed that many of the reviews for Joanne have criticized Gaga's authenticity because they feel Gaga did not went deep with these other non-pop genres. In other words they are criticizing the fact that she has this hybrid music that I just described. But why can't they take the music for what it is? What does music have to be boxed into one thing or another? Why don't they just accept that Gaga's style will always be a hybrid between pop and other genres? This is simply just Gaga's sound. This is what makes Gaga unique. 

You directly contradict yourself here. They're not criticizing her for trying new directions, they're criticizing her for playing it very safe with those new directions and delivering something middle-of-the-road (MOR) that we've all heard before. For instance Million Reasons, despite being a very nice song, is riddled with cliches and sounds like something pretty much any country-pop singer could have sung, for instance Carrie Underwood or Miley Cyrus. There are also many songs on the album that sound like something The Killers, another populist and MOR band, might have put out on their Sams Town album.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Joanne is innovative and too complex for the critics?  But I'm pretty sure you're the guy who said ARTPOP was experimental too so in that case I'm not surprised.

[Runway 27,876]

59 minutes ago, CoCo1 said:

You directly contradict yourself here. They're not criticizing her for trying new directions, they're criticizing her for playing it very safe with those new directions and delivering something middle-of-the-road (MOR) that we've all heard before. For instance Million Reasons, despite being a very nice song, is riddled with cliches and sounds like something pretty much any country-pop singer could have sung, for instance Carrie Underwood or Miley Cyrus. There are also many songs on the album that sound like something The Killers, another populist and MOR band, might have put out on their Sams Town album.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Joanne is innovative and too complex for the critics?  But I'm pretty sure you're the guy who said ARTPOP was experimental too so in that case I'm not surprised.

Uh a Joanne nay sayer

[Evan Peters 10,738]

2 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

People have a difference of opinion it's their profession I think they know what they are doing...

if you're a music critic and you can't write an article without bringing up an artist's image, past music, or past in general then no, you aren't doing your job correctly. When your job is to listen to a new album, that's all you do. Listen to the music and judge it based on its sound, composition, etc. The problem with critics and gaga is that they constantly bring up things that have nothing to do with the music and go off on some tangent, calling the music horrible without providing examples from the album itself, but rather her image/what they conceive her as. They have no problem digesting basic pop music made by an equally basic pop star, so why can't they do the same with lady gaga? Calling yourself a music critic and then saying Joanne inauthentic despite it sounding like her older material shows just how uneducated you are at your profession lol

i'm not a savior when it comes to gaga, but you gotta be delusional if you think some critics don't have a strange obsession/vendetta against her. 

[Evan Peters 10,738]

1 hour ago, CoCo1 said:

You directly contradict yourself here. They're not criticizing her for trying new directions, they're criticizing her for playing it very safe with those new directions and delivering something middle-of-the-road (MOR) that we've all heard before. For instance Million Reasons, despite being a very nice song, is riddled with cliches and sounds like something pretty much any country-pop singer could have sung, for instance Carrie Underwood or Miley Cyrus. There are also many songs on the album that sound like something The Killers, another populist and MOR band, might have put out on their Sams Town album.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Joanne is innovative and too complex for the critics?  But I'm pretty sure you're the guy who said ARTPOP was experimental too so in that case I'm not surprised.

none of the songs sound like miley cyrus or carrie underwood, i can't even begin to fathom how embarrassing it was for you to write that in a statement  

[Brian Ryan 1,468]

55 minutes ago, Evan Peters said:

if you're a music critic and you can't write an article without bringing up an artist's image, past music, or past in general then no, you aren't doing your job correctly. When your job is to listen to a new album, that's all you do. Listen to the music and judge it based on its sound, composition, etc. The problem with critics and gaga is that they constantly bring up things that have nothing to do with the music and go off on some tangent, calling the music horrible without providing examples from the album itself, but rather her image/what they conceive her as. They have no problem digesting basic pop music made by an equally basic pop star, so why can't they do the same with lady gaga? Calling yourself a music critic and then saying Joanne inauthentic despite it sounding like her older material shows just how uneducated you are at your profession lol

i'm not a savior when it comes to gaga, but you gotta be delusional if you think some critics don't have a strange obsession/vendetta against her. 

Then become a critic yourself or be silent. Enjoy the music.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

1 hour ago, Evan Peters said:

none of the songs sound like miley cyrus or carrie underwood, i can't even begin to fathom how embarrassing it was for you to write that in a statement  

Yeah Million Reasons could have easily been sung by Miley, I've actually seen a number of people point this out. That's not even a bad thing, just an observation. 

1 hour ago, Evan Peters said:

if you're a music critic and you can't write an article without bringing up an artist's image, past music, or past in general then no, you aren't doing your job correctly. When your job is to listen to a new album, that's all you do. Listen to the music and judge it based on its sound, composition, etc. The problem with critics and gaga is that they constantly bring up things that have nothing to do with the music and go off on some tangent, calling the music horrible without providing examples from the album itself, but rather her image/what they conceive her as. They have no problem digesting basic pop music made by an equally basic pop star, so why can't they do the same with lady gaga? Calling yourself a music critic and then saying Joanne inauthentic despite it sounding like her older material shows just how uneducated you are at your profession lol

i'm not a savior when it comes to gaga, but you gotta be delusional if you think some critics don't have a strange obsession/vendetta against her. 

This isn't accurate. A good critic will contextualize the artist's new work by framing it against their past work and the broader picture of their career, in doing so giving the reader important context as to the artist's journey and what led to the creation of the new work. Gaga in particular has been one of the most image-driven artists of this generation, it should come as no surprise that critics would talk about how her image informs her music and her progression. But I've yet to see a review for Joanne that criticized it without talking about the music itself.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

5 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

A very good point. It's a crying shame that critics can't appreciate this thing that makes her different and unique and then have the audacity to say that she lacks authenticity. Plenty of other artists have tried on different genres and reviews can be a bit up and down when this happens. Critics like artists to stick to one genre their entire career and value cohesiveness highly. Both these things are elements that mean absolutely nothing to me as an amateur critic. So, yeah, this is why I get quite pissed at professional critics and love going on rants about them.

If they've been around long enough and heard enough, why do they act so dumb when the obvious is right in front of them? I've listened to albums that have songs that sound like other artists songs, songs that have laughably bad lyrics, incorporate bad vocals, etc. I read the reviews and the critics don't bring up this stuff at all. If they're professionals, why can't they pick up on stuff that an amateur can? It makes it very difficult for me to respect them. I don't give a hoot if they're professional. They're not doing their job right. Makes me wonder why you need a degree in music to do this.

It's funny, so many legends call Gaga the real deal. You'd think the critics would start picking up on it. They sure follow what the public believes when it comes to how they review an album, surely the views of actual musicians would make them take notice? But hey, it's a known fact that female artists struggle to get respected when they go artistic and try for authenticity. Kanye West puts forward his artistry and authenticity in such a cringey way and yet, the critics love him and call him a genius. Could you imagine if Gaga made his kind of music? Calling herself a god and that we should all be honoured by her lateness and the like? Oh, no. A woman can't do that stuff in her music and be respected. Critics love doing the written equivalent of jerking off a male artist. When a woman tries to do something similar, she's trying to hard, she thinks she's better than she is. Did I mention how professional critics really try my patience?

A common criticism of Gaga's music is actually that it's not unique enough, and that it doesn't live up to her image. It's no different here, hence the many reviews of Joanne that decry it for being too safe and derivative. If Gaga were to fully commit to, let's say rock, and deliver a pure rock album that makes no concessions towards populism, and is more lyrically and compositionally complex than what she's delivered in the past, then she would probably receive higher praise accordingly. 

Many legends have praised Gaga primarily due to her voice and performance abilities. For instance, Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney, two legends whom she's performed with, have both praised her performing skills, but neither have praised her actual music when asked about contemporary artists. Paul McCartney listed Kanye West as one of the greatest contemporary musicians, and after working with him last year called him a "musical monster". Bruce Springsteen gave an interview a few weeks ago where he was asked which currents artists he listens to and he listed Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West, calling their records "amazing and genius". When asked if there are any others he likes he said "that's it." Tony Bennett has even implied that she should stop with pop altogether and focus on standards because that's where her true gift lies, and I've seen many others echo that sentiment after the Oscars performance, calling it the best thing she's done.

If Gaga made music like Kanye's then that would be a great thing. If you want to hear a truly unique, genre-blending piece of work then listen to MBDTF. And yes, women can absolutely be cocky and unapologetic and receive acclaim, Beyonce being the most obvious present example.

4 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I fail to understand why a cohesive album makes for a better album. If the songs are good, who cares what genre they are or if they flow well together or have a set story? If you love music, that stuff shouldn't matter. A cohesive album only matters if you're the type to put a physical copy on a CD player and invite people round to your house for a party. You can't do that with an album that's a mix of genres because there'll be sudden ballads that won't suit the occasion. Or you want to put on an album to relax and they'll be some loud ones in there. But who plays music like that anymore? In the age of technology where you can make custom playlists and only download the tracks you like from an album, does cohesion have any purpose anymore?

And yes, a very good point - the men working on it with her are praised, but she is seen as just a side dish, the dumb ditz who had to get all these talented men to help her make a good album because she sure as hell couldn't make it herself. Oh, yeah, it doesn't help that a lot of critics are middle aged males. It's no wonder they take this sexist view of things. I don't understand why men are seen as harbours of artistic prowess while women are not. The majority of my favourite artists have always been women. To me, they've always made more interesting songs. Male artists of the past were a lot better. There are few today who thrill me. They're too safe and predictable whereas women seem to want to push themselves.

Cohesion is one of the most important elements of a great album. If an album doesn't deliver a singular, well crafted experience and is more a loose collection of songs then it's really a compilation, which is what most mainstream pop records fall into. Since we're in a thread about critical acclaim I'll point to the most acclaimed albums of 2015 and 2016: To Pimp a Butterfly and Lemonade. Both are concept albums which display clear themes and narratives from start to finish. Both translate their many musical influences into a clear thought with proper sequencing.

Joanne is more of a compilation; Gaga herself admitted that there is no concept and it's just a fun collection of songs that center around very general themes of family and love and togetherness. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect it to get the same level of praise as the above albums when it contains less thought, depth and musical richness.

The reviews have been perfectly fair in both their praise and criticism for Gaga and her collaborators; male and female. Hillary and Florence have been praised for their songwriting and vocals, respectively. Gaga has been praised for her vocals. In fact I've seen more criticism for the male producers as they all have track records of producing more advanced music than what's found on here and have been slated for playing it too safe. Gaga would be the first to admit that she couldn't have made this record without them. I mean, one of the songs was written and composed entirely by Father John Misty. But Gaga is at the helm of the record for better and for worse, so of course she's going to get her fair share of the criticism from any reviewer who's lukewarm towards the record. If she'd wanted something more adventurous she could have pushed her producers more, or she could have gone deeper with the lyricism, you name it. Judging by her interviews she made exactly what she was aiming to make with this album and a score just below 70 on Metacritic is very fair for the result. It's not even a bad score.

[StrawberryBlond 14,819]

21 hours ago, CoCo1 said:

A common criticism of Gaga's music is actually that it's not unique enough, and that it doesn't live up to her image. It's no different here, hence the many reviews of Joanne that decry it for being too safe and derivative. If Gaga were to fully commit to, let's say rock, and deliver a pure rock album that makes no concessions towards populism, and is more lyrically and compositionally complex than what she's delivered in the past, then she would probably receive higher praise accordingly. 

Many legends have praised Gaga primarily due to her voice and performance abilities. For instance, Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney, two legends whom she's performed with, have both praised her performing skills, but neither have praised her actual music when asked about contemporary artists. Paul McCartney listed Kanye West as one of the greatest contemporary musicians, and after working with him last year called him a "musical monster". Bruce Springsteen gave an interview a few weeks ago where he was asked which currents artists he listens to and he listed Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West, calling their records "amazing and genius". When asked if there are any others he likes he said "that's it." Tony Bennett has even implied that she should stop with pop altogether and focus on standards because that's where her true gift lies, and I've seen many others echo that sentiment after the Oscars performance, calling it the best thing she's done.

If Gaga made music like Kanye's then that would be a great thing. If you want to hear a truly unique, genre-blending piece of work then listen to MBDTF. And yes, women can absolutely be cocky and unapologetic and receive acclaim, Beyonce being the most obvious present example.

Cohesion is one of the most important elements of a great album. If an album doesn't deliver a singular, well crafted experience and is more a loose collection of songs then it's really a compilation, which is what most mainstream pop records fall into. Since we're in a thread about critical acclaim I'll point to the most acclaimed albums of 2015 and 2016: To Pimp a Butterfly and Lemonade. Both are concept albums which display clear themes and narratives from start to finish. Both translate their many musical influences into a clear thought with proper sequencing.

Joanne is more of a compilation; Gaga herself admitted that there is no concept and it's just a fun collection of songs that center around very general themes of family and love and togetherness. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect it to get the same level of praise as the above albums when it contains less thought, depth and musical richness.

The reviews have been perfectly fair in both their praise and criticism for Gaga and her collaborators; male and female. Hillary and Florence have been praised for their songwriting and vocals, respectively. Gaga has been praised for her vocals. In fact I've seen more criticism for the male producers as they all have track records of producing more advanced music than what's found on here and have been slated for playing it too safe. Gaga would be the first to admit that she couldn't have made this record without them. I mean, one of the songs was written and composed entirely by Father John Misty. But Gaga is at the helm of the record for better and for worse, so of course she's going to get her fair share of the criticism from any reviewer who's lukewarm towards the record. If she'd wanted something more adventurous she could have pushed her producers more, or she could have gone deeper with the lyricism, you name it. Judging by her interviews she made exactly what she was aiming to make with this album and a score just below 70 on Metacritic is very fair for the result. It's not even a bad score.

A good point, but they could still criticise her for not doing rock justice. I just don't know if she can truly win right now.

I know it sounded as if I was hating on Kanye a lot but I actually quite like a lot of his music. MBDTF is my favourite album of his, followed by Yeezus. I think the rest of his work's ok, though his recent album was the first that I found to be mediocre. I think he wears the cockiness well but I just don't think a woman could carry it off and get away with it. Beyonce doesn't go as far down the cockiness route like Kanye, she just does it under the guise of empowering women, so she's fine. If a woman said his exact statements, though, it would be another story. A woman releasing a song called I Am A God feat. God? She'd be ripped to shreds.

Sorry, I still can't see why cohesion matters that much, especially today, when you can re-arrange your favourite songs into a cohesive playlist if you so choose. Good music is thin enough on the ground this days, the good stuff doesn't need to be kept down because critics want to be picky. I judge each song individually. Why would anyone want to do any differently?

Yes, her score is improving a lot, so that pleases me greatly. But I still think it should be better. There aren't enough 4/5 reviews for my liking, far too many mixed. Critics can be so picky and snobby with her in a way that they aren't for other artists. It's like...do they teach you to be biased at music college?

[James19709 456]

I applaud her for it, why make the same album twice?

[JTandTheHair 351]

Critics are RUDE.