Bebe 17,289 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 38 minutes ago, Whispering said: Candidates have to get attention and support before that point. Others have done so, but these two other options this election cycle weren't good options, or they would have caught on more. You never know, maybe the GOP will split apart and there will be three...maybe four...more viable parties one day. Until then, these other parties would have more of a chance if their candidates were more appealing overall to voters. But how do you get attention and support before that point without media attention? A candidate must have at least 15 percent support in national polls to participate in the debates. That's crazy, you just don't get those sort of numbers. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-the-debates-unfairly-shut-out-third-parties/ If 15% was the threshold for the Democratic debates, Bernie Sanders would hardly have had a chance. He was polling at 1-2% at the beginning of his campaign and was at about the 15% mark at August with the first debate in October. He was getting media attention because at that time he was still the closest to Clinton, but that's not the case anymore in the presidential election. The third parties are at an even greater disadvantage as they don't get the benefit of a long primary season covered by the media. It's virtually impossible for any third candidate to ever get the numbers to make the debates under the current system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Bebe said: But how do you get attention and support before that point without media attention? A candidate must have at least 15 percent support in national polls to participate in the debates. That's crazy, you just don't get those sort of numbers. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-the-debates-unfairly-shut-out-third-parties/ If 15% was the threshold for the Democratic debates, Bernie Sanders would hardly have had a chance. He was polling at 1-2% at the beginning of his campaign and was at about the 15% mark at August with the first debate in October. The third parties are at an even greater disadvantage as they don't get the benefit of a long primary season covered by the media. It's virtually impossible for any third candidate to ever get the numbers to make the debates under the current system. You are an intelligent, charismatic and legitimate candidate. The two this year weren't. If you are a viable candidate and get enough people behind you, you can get more media attention and even make it to the debate stage. Even then, if takes over a billion dollars to run a national campaign for President, so third parties are simply going to struggle. Money could make a small dent, but it really needs to start at the local and state level to gain traction and then move from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Whispering said: You are an intelligent, charismatic and legitimate candidate. The two this year weren't. If you are a viable candidate and get enough people behind you, you can get more media attention and even make it to the debate stage. Even then, if takes over a billion dollars to run a national campaign for President, so third parties are simply going to struggle. Money could make a small dent, but it really needs to start at the local and state level to gain traction and then move from there. This year, Johnson and Stein have fulfilled one major criterion: They both are on the ballot in enough states to hypothetically win the electoral college. But neither has met the 15 percent polling average mandated by the commission. I mean: "The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) requires that candidates poll at 15 percent in five national surveys leading up to the three scheduled debates and that they garner enough spots on state ballots to chart a path to the White House. But that’s a catch-22 for third-party or late-deciding independent candidates: Most polling outlets are only testing match-ups between Trump and Clinton in their surveys. “The game is rigged,” said former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who won 1 million votes as the Libertarian Party candidate in 2012 and is seeking the nomination again in 2016. “There’s no way a third-party candidate can compete unless they’re on the debate stage, and you can’t get there unless you’re in the polls.”" http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/279624-third-party-candidates-face-uphill-climb-to-get-place-on-presidentialAs a third party candidate, you're expected to reach 15% in the polls - but most polling outlets refuse to include third parties in their polls. I'm not really a giant fan of either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, but the point is that they cannot possibly compete. No third party candidate has made it into the debates since CPD erected its 15 percent barrier. It's too high, especially when considering that most polls refuse to include third party candidates. How are they supposed to get the poll numbers? You can say a candidate who is intelligent, charismatic and legitimate enough could enter the debate stage, but it just doesn't happen. Johnson and Stein are both are on the ballot in enough states to hypothetically win. I'm not saying they are better candidates, I'm not saying that if they were included they would win, but I am saying that they deserve to be a part of the conversation. The majority of Americans want to see them included too: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/09/01/paleologos-poll-johnson-stein-debates/89710228/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreak 6,653 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I was disappointed they did this instead of a regular Friday show Take a moment to think of just flexibility, love, and trust~ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosey 3,017 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Bebe said: “The game is rigged,” said former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who won 1 million votes as the Libertarian Party candidate in 2012 and is seeking the nomination again in 2016. “There’s no way a third-party candidate can compete unless they’re on the debate stage, and you can’t get there unless you’re in the polls.”" "Rigged"? Gary Johnson agrees with Trump, then? "I am the world's greatest person that does not want to let people into the country."—US President Donald J. Trump Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Goosey said: "Rigged"? Gary Johnson agrees with Trump, then? It's a totally different context haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReidOne 12,427 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 This is my first time ever hearing her speak, but listening to her talking about simply "wiping away" trillions of dollars in student loan debt and avoiding the question about how she plans to do it by saying "well the plan doesn't matter because plans get rejected and changed all the time" has just made me look at her as a complete joke. You cannot be serious, Jill Stein. This is a mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 174,276 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Jill...confuses me. I've only ever heard general statements and insults directed at Hillary from her...it's like she's the less offensive liberal Trump Also, I just cannot get behind a candidate that has never held office before or anyone that gives the slightest bit of credit to anti-vaxxers or is so against GMOs despite no problems ever being found with them. That GMO thing goes for Bernie too, just to a lesser extent since he wants labels where as Jill wants to ban them outright. And like @Bebe said (kinda), not shooting down that 9/11 truther immediately was just...bad Funny how the farther left and the farther right you go, policies become less and less rooted in science and reality...Also, her running mate literally called Obama an "Uncle Tom". That's the only thing I know about him and that's enough for me to say I don't want him near the White House either And I just plain don't agree with Johnson, nor do I think he's competent enough to run the country. Though, using his logic, it doesn't really matter who wins does it? The sun is going to engulf the Earth in 5 billion years anyway! Think "long term" Spoiler Speaking to the parties that they both represent, the Libertarian and Green parties, these people need to learn to build themselves up from the local level. They can't just push out some half decent nobody every four years and hope one of them sticks. Jill and Gary have both spoken more about how bad the two candidates with a chance are than they have about their own policies. They're banking on the hope that we hate Trump and Hillary so much that we'll push enough "protest votes" (wasted votes) through to give them the win but it doesn't work like that. I guess at least Gary was a governor but he was a Republican at the time I'll stick with Hillary. A pragmatic centrist running on a progressive platform with the experience and intelligence to make it all happen 9 hours ago, Whispering said: You never know, maybe the GOP will split apart and there will be three...maybe four...more viable parties one day. Until then, these other parties would have more of a chance if their candidates were more appealing overall to voters. I think my theory still stands The one about the GOP being irreparably damaged thanks to Trump's run so self respecting Republicans would adopt more social views and jump ship to the Libertarian party, leaving the GOP/Tea Party to die out with the ideals of the baby boomer generation...not that there's anything wrong with baby boomers in general, it's just not appropriate for politicians to want to run the U.S. in 2016 as if it was still the 1950's Spoiler Black people deserve fair treatment, women deserve to make their own healthcare choices, gay people can get married, trans* people are validated, patriotism and nationalism are two different things, generalizations are not ok, fear tactics are not ok, and the GOP needs to learn all of this and get with the times or become a footnote in history tbh. A fair amount of the millennials also say that neither the Republican or Democratic party represents them and a good chunk of them lean hardcore to the left...So my vision for the future is a three party system where "the right" is covered by the Libertarians, Democrats are the centrists/moderates, and the Green party (beefed up by the young liberal generation) represents "the left". And maybe Independents would have a better chance in that scenario I'd still be a Democrat in that scenario too Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm 879 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5 hours ago, Goosey said: "Rigged"? Gary Johnson agrees with Trump, then? Not just Gary, even Obama: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaLover1928 35 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 This woman is an idiot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 174,276 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 7 hours ago, ReidOne said: This is my first time ever hearing her speak, but listening to her talking about simply "wiping away" trillions of dollars in student loan debt and avoiding the question about how she plans to do it by saying "well the plan doesn't matter because plans get rejected and changed all the time" has just made me look at her as a complete joke. You cannot be serious, Jill Stein. This is a mess. I believe she once said we'd forgive student debt in the same way we bailed out Wall Street banks...Idk, I'm not huge on economics but that doesn't seem feasible/possible to me Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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