Lady Gaga's Sexist Subtext

[Gagaiagr8 63]

4 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

 

Thats true, I think im the only Gay thats not a feminist.. thats why I cant relate to Gay people.

Well you're not alone, there's at least one other gay that's not a feminist. I was suggesting that some people are implying that to be (or support) LGBT you have to be feminist. My sexiuaility=\=my ideology.

[mmm 879]

1 minute ago, Gagaiagr8 said:

Well you're not alone, there's at least one other gay that's not a feminist. I was suggesting that some people are implying that to be LGBT you have to be feminist. My sexiuaility=\=my ideology.

Yeah thats gender politics.. they do the same with black people if they are republicans for example.

[Cody Draco 2,531]

26 minutes ago, Gagaiagr8 said:

[citation needed]

http://fulleryouthinstitute.org/articles/feelings-not-allowed

Here's one article I found discussing it.

In my post you quoted I was speaking from my own experience as an American male who growing was bullied by other guys my age for showing my emotions which led to me having anger issues and being aggressive for quite a few years. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,897]

I'm a woman, I'm a proud feminist and I don't find this sexist. You know, it's getting really grating how every little thing is getting overanalysed in today's social media, Tumblr, SJW age. Things weren't over-analysed like this back in the 90's, before people had the ability to ask questions online and meet like-minded people and overthink things. Now, you're afraid to say anything for fear that you're going to be labelled as some sort of "ist" (racist, sexist, misogynist, satanist...sadist?), fear that you're going to get into an argument you didn't sign up for, fear that people are going to have the wrong impression of you and spread it amongst others. No wonder we're all so stressed out.

Gaga brought up the idea of manly cries because a lot of men feel uncomfortable crying in front of others. This is a shame, yes, but that doesn't mean you're reinforcing a gender stereotype by merely referring to this. What Gaga's essentially saying is "But you know men, they like to hide their tears" when she said it. It was her way of showing support, as far as I can see. And as for saying that someone's got balls, I don't even think of genitalia when I hear that. It's just a word. I hear it as no different to "you've got guts." It means the exact same to me. Saying "grow some balls" is another matter, though. And I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone to "man up" if they have a genuine responsibility that they are shirking, but it shouldn't be used to put someone down for not doing something that the person finds uncomfortable or dangerous (being told to man up by drinking, smoking, taking drugs, having sex, etc. is unacceptable). Saying someone should man up is essentially telling them to grow up and be responsible, behave like a mature adult man, not a little boy. Which is quite a good thing to teach, really.

You've overthought it too much. There are far bigger sexist issues that we should be trying to tackle, ones involving men included. But I can't stand to see people waste their time protesting against a type of oppression that doesn't exist.

[Rockets 1,807]

[Gagaiagr8 63]

17 minutes ago, Cody Draco said:

http://fulleryouthinstitute.org/articles/feelings-not-allowed

Here's one article I found discussing it.

In my post you quoted I was speaking from my own experience as an American male who growing was bullied by other guys my age for showing my emotions which led to me having anger issues and being aggressive for quite a few years. 

You reliese this article has no academic merit. I meant a study. Oh anecdote, I guess that tells us a lot about society as a whole. 

Im sorry those people bullied you. If it was just verbal, I would try to reason that they are clearly dumb and so their opinions are not worth your concern. If it was physical, I hope you used the full power of the legal system to teach them a lesson. 

[besus 132]

2 hours ago, Gagaiagr8 said:

Does she really think men do more dangerous jobs per capita, more men commit sucide per capita, men are treated unfairly in custody cases, and that more men per capita are in prison, she needs to EDUCATE her self and start helping these poor oppressed western women. 

Edit note: the statistics and examples I've included have only to do with the United States. I'm not speaking for the rest of the world.

Does she really think men do more dangerous jobs per capita, more men commit sucide per capita

These are circumstances that men have the potential to change for themselves. Men are not forced to take more dangerous jobs, and men have just as much access to mental health care as women do. The reasons behind these trends are social (why does a man feel compelled to take dangerous jobs, why do men not seek out mental health care) that stem from the unfair, toxic culture of masculinity that pollutes the straight male social archetype. The ideas driving feminism are a remedy to this problem. Men and women alike would benefit.

men are treated unfairly in custody cases

Again, this would be a non-issue if more people were feminists. Judges infantilize women and assume they're all just loving, doting mothers at their core. If men and women were considered and treated equally, men would not be shafted by these presumed social roles.

more men per capita are in prison

I'd argue that racism has as much to do with this as gender bias. This also has to do with the toxic, ridiculous conceptions of masculinity in American society. If men didn't have to feel "alpha," and if being "feminine" weren't akin to being a total social pariah, maybe fewer men would feel compelled to resort to crime to make ends meet.

It's also just statistically true that men commit far more violent crimes than women do (75% vs 20-25% female): http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent.htm. Which again, probably has to do with unfair social expectations that stem from masculinity.

As for the discrimination and unfairness women face...

First, it's important to note that none of your examples have been legislated onto men by the government.

- Women have to fight for bodily autonomy. Not only are politicians fighting (successfully) to gimp abortion care (e.g., Texas's HB2 forced over half of Texas' abortion clinics to close), they're adding humiliating clauses to new legislation. In Indiana, for instance, if a woman has an abortion OR EVEN A MISCARRIAGE, she is forced to perform funeral rites for the embryo/fetus. This is absurd and disgusting.

- Women are paid less than men for equal work, and the GOP-led senate in the US has blocked equal pay-driven legislation from passing in Congress (see: Paycheck Fairness Act) multiple times. 

- Hygienic products like tampons and pads are taxed as "luxury items" by the government. Male condoms, however, are not.

- Rape, of which women are overwhelmingly the majority of victims, is the only crime where the victim becomes a suspect. No other crime—even if evidence is presented—is as clearly invested in shaming and humiliating the plaintiff. And the fact that convicted male rapists get off with a slap on the wrist shows that the judicial system does not take rape seriously. All it takes is a 2-second Google search to find dozens of cases of judges being horrible and disgusting toward women in these cases.

- Women are evaluated based on their personalities, rather than their merits, in the workplace. Where a man is described as "aggressive" and "ambitious," a woman is labeled "abrasive" or "cold." http://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/

This, my friend, is a drop in the bucket. I'm not saying that there aren't major systemic problems that hurt both men and women, but the discrimination women face is orders of magnitude more extreme than that faced by men, particularly among straight white men. 

It's not a partisan stance. It's not a conspiracy. It's just ****ing true.

[besus 132]

2 hours ago, AntiPotCrusader said:

I have educated myself. Sorry if it offends you. I'm strong enough to know the truth. If you're on the side of the majority it's time to stop and reflect.

Oh yes, you're so brave for being anti-feminist. Better be careful, you're starting to sound like a full-blown Republican with that logic.

[Gracious Gaga 17,163]

1 hour ago, Ibo said:

You have a point. I can't lie, it did bug me when I heard her say that, but at the end of the day it's just a cultural phenomenon that will (hopefully) die out one day.

We, and especially Gaga, all know that it's okay to be male and cry. I feel like she only said that because she wasn't sure if Mark would want her to reveal such a vulnerable moment and thus influence his public image.

Exactly! I hope it will die out because the fact that mark may not want the world to know he is human and has a vulnerable side is absolutely ridiculous and is a terrible stigma towards men that needs to end.  I wish instead that gaga didn't make her remark about it being manly because she should be spreading the message that it's okay to be yourself and feel what you feel and not be ashamed for have to hide it.

[Gracious Gaga 17,163]

57 minutes ago, Cody Draco said:

Which inherently implies that a man possessing a stereotypical female quality (such as being emotional) is less than desirable. Thus reinforcing gender stereotypes.

It's not Gaga I have an issue with, it's the society that shapes us all and by defending these sayings (society) we are defending the prevalence and following of gender stereotypes.

P.s. I'm not attacking you, I love your post and agree with it 100%. It just inspired me to express my feelings on the topic at hand a little more. 

Say it again for the monsters in the back please

[mmm 879]

@Gracious Gaga did you like my comment by mistake?

[Guest]

On 28/9/2016 at 8:36 PM, Gracious Gaga said:

 

Sayings like "have some balls" or "man up" are POLITICALLY INCORRECT.  

They suggest power and dominance in the male gender only and do not support gender EQUALITY.

For those who think I'm reaching, I am not.  It is the exact same as someone saying "that's so gay/retarded" when meaning something is perhaps stupid or uncool.  Those kinds of phrases are destructive and unacceptable.  They always have been, always will be, and NEED TO STOP.

I agree with "manly cry" but that's too much. People are so damn sensitive about everything these days I feel like y'all need to take a deep breath and stop wasting your time on little things like that.

[Gagaiagr8 63]

 

39 minutes ago, besus said:

Does she really think men do more dangerous jobs per capita, more men commit sucide per capita

These are circumstances that men have the potential to change for themselves. Men are not forced to take more dangerous jobs, and men have just as much access to mental health care as women do. The reasons behind these trends are social (why does a man feel compelled to take dangerous jobs, why do men not seek out mental health care) that stem from the unfair, toxic culture of masculinity that pollutes the straight male social archetype. The ideas driving feminism are a remedy to this problem. Men and women alike would benefit.

men are treated unfairly in custody cases

Again, this would be a non-issue if more people were feminists. Judges infantilize women and assume they're all just loving, doting mothers at their core. If men and women were considered and treated equally, men would not be shafted by these presumed social roles.

more men per capita are in prison

I'd argue that racism has as much to do with this as gender bias. This also has to do with the toxic, ridiculous conceptions of masculinity in American society. If men didn't have to feel "alpha," and if being "feminine" weren't akin to being a total social pariah, maybe fewer men would feel compelled to resort to crime to make ends meet.

It's also just statistically true that men commit far more violent crimes than women do (75% vs 20-25% female): http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent.htm. Which again, probably has to do with unfair social expectations that stem from masculinity.

As for the discrimination and unfairness women face...

First, it's important to note that none of your examples have been legislated onto men by the government.

- Women have to fight for bodily autonomy. Not only are politicians lobbying to gimp abortion care (e.g., Texas's HB2 forced over half of Texas' abortion clinics to close), they're adding humiliating clauses to new legislation. In Indiana, for instance, if a woman has an abortion OR EVEN A MISCARRIAGE, she is forced to perform funeral rites for the embryo/fetus. This is absurd and disgusting.

- Women are paid less than men for equal work, and the GOP-led senate in the US has blocked equal pay-driven legislation from passing in Congress (see: Paycheck Fairness Act) multiple times. 

- Hygienic products like tampons and pads are taxed as "luxury items" by the government. Male condoms, however, are not.

- Rape, of which women are overwhelmingly the majority of victims, is the only crime where the victim becomes a suspect. No other crime—even if evidence is presented—is as clearly invested in shaming and humiliating the plaintiff. And the fact that convicted male rapists get off with a slap on the wrist shows that the judicial system does not take rape seriously. All it takes is a 2-second Google search to find dozens of cases of judges being horrible and disgusting toward women in these cases.

- Women are evaluated based on their personalities, rather than their merits, in the workplace. Where a man is described as "aggressive" and "ambitious," a woman is labeled "abrasive" or "cold." http://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/

This, my friend, is a drop in the bucket. I'm not saying that there aren't major systemic problems that hurt both men and women, but the discrimination women face is orders of magnitude more extreme than that faced by men, particularly among straight white men. 

It's not a partisan stance. It's not a conspiracy. It's just ****ing true.

 

I think men do more dangerous jobs because they have a comparative advantage in jobs which are dangerous. But that's just economics. 

Maybe you're right and the feminist movement can help the problem of men being treats unfairly in custody battles. I just don't see how exactly you think they're gonna do it, you've sort of just said, feminism will ensure men and women are considered equally,without explaining how. You assume others who don't call themselves feminists don't want the same. When in fact, they don't call themselves feminists because they don't want to be considered a pseudo intellectual. 

Lets do some economics. If women earn less than men for equal work, I pay a price for discriminating, for choosing a man over a women, I make less profit relative to firms that don't discriminate, who employ the cheaper women. The former type, will over time leave the market and shrink as non discriminating firms expand and enter due to higher profit incentives (due to lower costs) and the ability to out price discriminators (due to lower costs). If men and women are paid the same for equal work, discriminating firms pay no price for discriminating. They have the same costs as the typical profit maximisers who of course would of employed the cheaper women without the legislation. This means a high portion of firms in the market will never chose to employ women without being driven out of the market, as they cost the same. So not really a solution. Thank god congress are economically literate. 

Are female condoms also hygiene products? But seriously, they should be hygiene products I agree there. 

Rape statistics are always very unreliable but prison rape is a massive problem for men, especially gay men gagadaily! So I don't think the fact that the suspect gets treated unfairly is a women only problem so much as a problem for all. If more women are raped outside I don't think that's the patriarchy encouraging men to rape more than women as much as it is men are physically stronger and so unfortunately are physically more likely to be able to over power a women than a women is a man. Also when people report crimes they self select so all crime statistics have something called a self selection bias making them unreliable.

Forbes article, ok, nice work.  

[Gracious Gaga 17,163]

8 minutes ago, kyanewest said:

I agree with "manly cry" but that's too much. People are so damn sensitive about everything these days I feel like y'all need to take a deep breath and stop wasting your time on little things like that.

My dear, believe it or not, but it is the "little things" that can stir up big issues.  "Little things" can be powerfully detrimental to people.  You can never tell somebody they're wrong for feeling the way the feel.  What is feel is authentic and honest, certainly not overthought.  It saddens me you think my desires for wanting lady gaga to share a more positive and proactive message about men being able to express their feelings without losing dignity for it is a "waste of time".  Perhaps you as well believe something as simple as crying makes the male gender less of a "man".

[Gracious Gaga 17,163]

12 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

@Gracious Gaga did you like my comment by mistake?

Idk...Tbh I don't even remember what you said lol sorry haha