Dangers of hypersensitive culture bred by social media

[Kayla 7,595]

10 hours ago, Buddy said:

The internet/social networking caused a remarkable  surge in the speed of information sharing. The world has never faced this  sort of exchange at such an profound rate. While the internet has been around since the beginning of the 2000s, this decade achieved stable enough social networking platforms for cultural movements to arise notably outside of the internet. Because of the intense speed of information sharing, more and more cultural movements have been emerging at a fast and overwhelming rate. 

In my perspective, some people are abusing this platform by trying to do way too much way too fast. While I don't like to be cynical, people tend to forget that we are still a sociological body -- just because our technology has progressed so extraordinarily doesn't rule out society's laws of nature which have applied to us since the very beginning. We should respect that cultural movements take time. Cultures need to experience change in increments, otherwise many people will be resistant, and that is exactly what is occurring in 2016.

I disagree with the idea that we need to experience change in increments and people are doing too much too fast (I think when it comes to equality, giving everyone a voice, and making change for the better, why wait any longer than we have to?) but I agree with the sentiment that this huge increase in all these things makes it harder for society as a whole to figure out how to cope. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,561]

14 hours ago, uo111 said:

After all, we know that men can't control their penis and it's obviously 100% the woman's fault and she deserves all the blame. The man just can't help it.

Us gay men, when we cheat on each other it's no big deal because we know we just can't help it. It would be so much easier if we were straight because then we could just blame the woman.

That's not what I meant. And it's the tried and tested comeback that just doesn't hold up. No, it's not 100% the woman's fault, but it is her fault to a degree. People now act like it's solely the man's responsibility so much so that they don't blame the woman AT ALL. Because...feminism, slut shaming or some s**t. Yeah, giving a free pass to a woman who purses a man who's spoken for, that's real feminism. Yes, the man has the biggest responsibility to be faithful, but the woman also has a responsibility as a member of the sisterhood and as a general decent human being. Regardless of gender, you don't pursue someone who's spoken for. No one with a conscience or a heart does that. Anyone who does deserves to be dragged. I mean, when Beyonce drags "sidechicks" and "Becky," she's being a strong woman, but when a regular woman does the same thing, she's directing her anger at the wrong person? Wtf? I say blame both parties EQUALLY. We all have responsibilities in this world to be decent and respect one another, after all.

Don't start up that nonsense about gay men. You know I don't mean that at all. Of course men can help it but a word like "stolen" is pretty apt and there's no other word that suits the situation. Saying "came on to," "flirted with," etc. suggests there was an attempt that failed. But if the attempted at seduction did succeed and the man left the woman, the word "stolen" fits. The woman stole this man's love and affection away from his official partner. And before we get into "A person can't be stolen if they want to be stolen," let's not debate the intricacies and definitions of the human language when it comes to issues of fidelity. We know what certain words mean in certain situations.

4 hours ago, Kayla said:

I agree to an extent, but this "victim mentality" isn't just some made up thing that isn't rooted in facts. When you look at the statistics there are distinct under-privileged groups; it's not a randomized system of privileges. Just looking at black people in poor areas, the reason why so many black people were driven to those crappy neighborhoods was because they were denied housing loans because of their race, forcing them into cheaper housing in neighborhoods with less job opportunities. 

These aren't people making themselves out to be victims, these are people who ARE victims who are stuck in a vicious cycle. That being said, you are right that it is offensive to patronize them for being under-privileged, and more work should be done to highlight their positive aspects than their negatives. 

It's also important to note that you are not from the USA, so you have not seen firsthand the issues these people face; you're an outsider, and I wish you would try to consider that maybe the people actually living in these situations know what they're talking about. 

 

MOST rapes are conducted by people who know the victim, not some rando out in the street - which means the "reality" is women should be more careful around friends at a frat party than a stranger lurking around the corner.

MOST rapes are not about sexual attraction, but overpowering someone else. They also choose their victims based on perceived unawareness of their surroundings and timid nature. MANY rapists don't even remember what their victim was wearing - which means the "reality" is women shouldn't be told to "not dress like a slut," but should be told to walk with confidence and carry a method of physical protection.

MANY rapes occur in the victim's own home, not at a party or in the night on the street.

MOST victims of rape were NOT wearing "slutty" clothing. Also consider that rape occurs to people from newborn age to death-bed-elderly age- let's stop blaming what these people are wearing, shall we? Only 4.4% of rapes involved provocative behavior from the victim.
Gonna say it again:
MAJORITY of women who were raped were NOT wearing "slutty" clothes.

Lastly, consider the fact that men are raped too. Did "not dressing like a slut" help them out? No, so let's stop pretending that suggesting women wear jeans and a sweatshirt is actually helping anybody. 

Telling women "don't dress like a slut" is basically useless advice. If you really want to protect women, have your words of wisdom be based on actual factual data taken from real rape scenarios. 

 

Of course we've all done that. When I was a kid I also used to refer to things as "gay" and "retarded," but part of growing up and being considerate means having the decency to choose your words better. Just because we've "all done it at some point" doesn't mean it's constructive or necessary. 

I didn't say that there isn't genuine under-privilege in these groups, just that some of the things they say are made-up issues based on perceived ideas of under-privilege that maybe don't exist. For example, getting a low score on a test must mean a racist teacher (even though you didn't try and couldn't spell), getting pulled over by a cop must be racist (even though you were acting suspiciously and carrying weed), getting teased for having your natural hair or being curvy by a bunch of schoolgirls must be racist (despite the fact that girls routinely tease other girls for their looks and body shape that is not 100% perfection) and not getting a job after an interview must mean a racist interviewer (when getting a job is just one of those things, you either get it or you don't). White people have had to deal with low scores on tests, getting pulled over by cops for seemingly no reason (maybe not in America, but trust me, it happens worldwide), getting their natural looks and body shape mocked (frizzy hair is generally considered an undesirable trait by pretty much all racial groups due to its unkempt-looking nature, hence why de-tangling, de-frizzing sprays exist and all body shapes that aren't slim get picked on and not just black women are curvy) and getting refused job interviews (don't I know it) with absolutely no complaints. We know it's just a fact of life. You will encounter s****y people who don't like you. It doesn't have to be for a specific reason, some people are just nasty. Welcome to life on Planet Earth. Yet, certain racial groups have it into their head that their race is solely the reason behind anything bad that happens to them and that no one else suffers they way they do. As a white person, I look around and see suffering everywhere. Yet, so many black people look around and only seem to see suffering in their own race. I find that strange. And a little disturbing, frankly.

Yes, I'm not from the US, but this thread wasn't about issues within the US. It was about a general issue of hypersensitivity. The film posted had an all-British cast. That's because this problem is starting to expand among the Western world in general. Maybe not in the rest of the world, but within Western society. But yes, I do take into consideration the differences between America and Britain in these cases. But again, shouldn't we be looking at all this from an international perspective? A big reason why Jane Elliott's blue eyes/brown eyes experiment went down like a lead balloon when she did it in the UK is because we don't hold a lot of that BS that they do in America. We know the issues being described concern us all and aren't so racially specific. But that woman doesn't like being called out on her BS, she wants the experiment to end unfairly on her side and she twists the situation until she gets the outcome she wants. The sad thing is, a lot of black people praise her and cite anyone who speaks against her to be ignorant, racist and just not getting it. If I was part of her experiment, I'd be kicked out in the first 2 minutes for showing too much intelligence.

I know all that stuff about rape. I am a woman, I've researched these statistics, I know what you mean. But I'm not talking about women who get raped by someone they know, I'm talking about rapists who rape strangers, just like that cop was. It would be naive to say that such rapists don't focus in on easy targets. You're asking for actual, factual data based on real rape scenarios? Well, this is actual, factual data taken from situations where women are raped by a stranger. And the facts are that these specific rapists went after all the classic vulnenerablities. Women who are getting drunk, aren't covering their drinks, are alone, are dressed provocatively. They go after women in short dresses and high heels because such attire means that they're struggling to walk and can't run, making them easy to sneak up on and grab and they'll be unlikely to get away. It's not so much the outfit itself that turns the rapist on, it's what that outfit represents. That's how predators work - forget the ones who have agency and awareness and pick on the ones that are vulnerable. This is true throughout all life and we acknowledge that and see nothing wrong with it, but when it comes to protecting the most intimate part of ourselves, we suddenly drop all safety precautions. My mum has always told me if I go into a busy city centre to keep an eye on my bag and keep it close to me because pickpockets prey on people who are walking around with open bags and being distracted. It's well-advised if you're going mountain climbing to take a phone, medical supplies, a whistle, possibly even an emergency flare because a lot of things can go wrong when mountain climbing. We have to wear a seat belt in a car by law because in a car crash, this safety precaution could save your life. Do you agree that all these things are reasonable? So, why is it when it comes to protecting yourself against being raped, so many women are strangely unbothered and don't even consider potential dangers? Ever since I was little, I've been taught not to walk down quiet areas alone (especially at night), not to accept any food or drink from a stranger and not to go away with a stranger. I still follow that advice all these years later and nothing bad has ever happened to me (I gather that luck plays a big role too, however). But it seems like everyone else threw those principles out the window as soon as they became an adult. Like nothing bad happens to you when you're an adult if you walk down a dark alleyway or accept a drink from a stranger or go back to a stranger's house to have sex. I am genuinely confused at why becoming an adult makes people think they are now invincible to bad stuff happening to them. This isn't about targeting women or shaming rape victims, this is about making all adults realise that they aren't invincible and that safety precautions should be paramount through all areas of life. That doesn't mean they should be blamed if anything bad does happen to them if they don't follow these rules, but with any luck, they'll learn something from it. And as for men who get raped, that's a completely different scenario because gender changes it all. Therefore, a man's form of attire doesn't come into it at all (unless he's practically naked, of course). We know gender changes it all. That shouldn't have to be explained.

[Economy 52,844]

On June 23, 2016 at 7:29 AM, LePetitMonstr said:

Actually, historically, society has always been too sensitive

But nowadays we have technology and social media to complain, which makes it seem like we more sensitive, when in reality its always been there. 

Also, people need to take a chill pill and not get offended by everything. 

I dont know about that. The older generation does seem to have a thicker skin and they do say we are too easily offended

 

i dont know that society was always as sensitive as it is now

[Economy 52,844]

11 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

That's not what I meant. And it's the tried and tested comeback that just doesn't hold up. No, it's not 100% the woman's fault, but it is her fault to a degree. People now act like it's solely the man's responsibility so much so that they don't blame the woman AT ALL. Because...feminism, slut shaming or some s**t. Yeah, giving a free pass to a woman who purses a man who's spoken for, that's real feminism. Yes, the man has the biggest responsibility to be faithful, but the woman also has a responsibility as a member of the sisterhood and as a general decent human being. Regardless of gender, you don't pursue someone who's spoken for. No one with a conscience or a heart does that. Anyone who does deserves to be dragged. I mean, when Beyonce drags "sidechicks" and "Becky," she's being a strong woman, but when a regular woman does the same thing, she's directing her anger at the wrong person? Wtf? I say blame both parties EQUALLY. We all have responsibilities in this world to be decent and respect one another, after all.

Don't start up that nonsense about gay men. You know I don't mean that at all. Of course men can help it but a word like "stolen" is pretty apt and there's no other word that suits the situation. Saying "came on to," "flirted with," etc. suggests there was an attempt that failed. But if the attempted at seduction did succeed and the man left the woman, the word "stolen" fits. The woman stole this man's love and affection away from his official partner. And before we get into "A person can't be stolen if they want to be stolen," let's not debate the intricacies and definitions of the human language when it comes to issues of fidelity. We know what certain words mean in certain situations.

I didn't say that there isn't genuine under-privilege in these groups, just that some of the things they say are made-up issues based on perceived ideas of under-privilege that maybe don't exist. For example, getting a low score on a test must mean a racist teacher (even though you didn't try and couldn't spell), getting pulled over by a cop must be racist (even though you were acting suspiciously and carrying weed), getting teased for having your natural hair or being curvy by a bunch of schoolgirls must be racist (despite the fact that girls routinely tease other girls for their looks and body shape that is not 100% perfection) and not getting a job after an interview must mean a racist interviewer (when getting a job is just one of those things, you either get it or you don't). White people have had to deal with low scores on tests, getting pulled over by cops for seemingly no reason (maybe not in America, but trust me, it happens worldwide), getting their natural looks and body shape mocked (frizzy hair is generally considered an undesirable trait by pretty much all racial groups due to its unkempt-looking nature, hence why de-tangling, de-frizzing sprays exist and all body shapes that aren't slim get picked on and not just black women are curvy) and getting refused job interviews (don't I know it) with absolutely no complaints. We know it's just a fact of life. You will encounter s****y people who don't like you. It doesn't have to be for a specific reason, some people are just nasty. Welcome to life on Planet Earth. Yet, certain racial groups have it into their head that their race is solely the reason behind anything bad that happens to them and that no one else suffers they way they do. As a white person, I look around and see suffering everywhere. Yet, so many black people look around and only seem to see suffering in their own race. I find that strange. And a little disturbing, frankly.

Yes, I'm not from the US, but this thread wasn't about issues within the US. It was about a general issue of hypersensitivity. The film posted had an all-British cast. That's because this problem is starting to expand among the Western world in general. Maybe not in the rest of the world, but within Western society. But yes, I do take into consideration the differences between America and Britain in these cases. But again, shouldn't we be looking at all this from an international perspective? A big reason why Jane Elliott's blue eyes/brown eyes experiment went down like a lead balloon when she did it in the UK is because we don't hold a lot of that BS that they do in America. We know the issues being described concern us all and aren't so racially specific. But that woman doesn't like being called out on her BS, she wants the experiment to end unfairly on her side and she twists the situation until she gets the outcome she wants. The sad thing is, a lot of black people praise her and cite anyone who speaks against her to be ignorant, racist and just not getting it. If I was part of her experiment, I'd be kicked out in the first 2 minutes for showing too much intelligence.

I know all that stuff about rape. I am a woman, I've researched these statistics, I know what you mean. But I'm not talking about women who get raped by someone they know, I'm talking about rapists who rape strangers, just like that cop was. It would be naive to say that such rapists don't focus in on easy targets. You're asking for actual, factual data based on real rape scenarios? Well, this is actual, factual data taken from situations where women are raped by a stranger. And the facts are that these specific rapists went after all the classic vulnenerablities. Women who are getting drunk, aren't covering their drinks, are alone, are dressed provocatively. They go after women in short dresses and high heels because such attire means that they're struggling to walk and can't run, making them easy to sneak up on and grab and they'll be unlikely to get away. It's not so much the outfit itself that turns the rapist on, it's what that outfit represents. That's how predators work - forget the ones who have agency and awareness and pick on the ones that are vulnerable. This is true throughout all life and we acknowledge that and see nothing wrong with it, but when it comes to protecting the most intimate part of ourselves, we suddenly drop all safety precautions. My mum has always told me if I go into a busy city centre to keep an eye on my bag and keep it close to me because pickpockets prey on people who are walking around with open bags and being distracted. It's well-advised if you're going mountain climbing to take a phone, medical supplies, a whistle, possibly even an emergency flare because a lot of things can go wrong when mountain climbing. We have to wear a seat belt in a car by law because in a car crash, this safety precaution could save your life. Do you agree that all these things are reasonable? So, why is it when it comes to protecting yourself against being raped, so many women are strangely unbothered and don't even consider potential dangers? Ever since I was little, I've been taught not to walk down quiet areas alone (especially at night), not to accept any food or drink from a stranger and not to go away with a stranger. I still follow that advice all these years later and nothing bad has ever happened to me (I gather that luck plays a big role too, however). But it seems like everyone else threw those principles out the window as soon as they became an adult. Like nothing bad happens to you when you're an adult if you walk down a dark alleyway or accept a drink from a stranger or go back to a stranger's house to have sex. I am genuinely confused at why becoming an adult makes people think they are now invincible to bad stuff happening to them. This isn't about targeting women or shaming rape victims, this is about making all adults realise that they aren't invincible and that safety precautions should be paramount through all areas of life. That doesn't mean they should be blamed if anything bad does happen to them if they don't follow these rules, but with any luck, they'll learn something from it. And as for men who get raped, that's a completely different scenario because gender changes it all. Therefore, a man's form of attire doesn't come into it at all (unless he's practically naked, of course). We know gender changes it all. That shouldn't have to be explained.

What u said about races assuming racism was behind an unpleasent reqction such as not getting hired or getting pulled over

 

i notice same thing happens with LGBT community. They see homophobia on everythingg even when theres no proof or reason to assume homophobia was the cause of whatever

 

and im gonna mention that im a member of the LGBT myself before some gets offended that "im saying things without understanding"

[Miel 15,009]

As some people have said, it goes both ways.

Yes, a lot of people have become incredibly hypersensitive to a lot of issues. And while the intention could be in the right place, it oftentimes results in more messes than solutions. You know those situations where there's a yelling match for the sake of a yelling match- the literal fighting fire with fire.

On the other hand, it's incredibly important to note that this sort of trend in social awareness is actually beneficial for the whole of society. I mean, my favorite example is the whole idea of:

Man, kids these days can't take a joke.

What do you mean, we literally sit and laugh at memes all f*cking day. We just don't like racist jokes.

It's too easy to brush a society altogether as "oversensitive". So many issues that are in the limelight are in the limelight because they're a legitimate problem that is actually being talked about, as opposed to being majorly opposed, or even brushed under the carpet.

It's not so black and white.

[StrawberryBlond 15,561]

13 minutes ago, Economy said:

What u said about races assuming racism was behind an unpleasent reqction such as not getting hired or getting pulled over

 

i notice same thing happens with LGBT community. They see homophobia on everythingg even when theres no proof or reason to assume homophobia was the cause of whatever

 

and im gonna mention that im a member of the LGBT myself before some gets offended that "im saying things without understanding"

Yep, somehow, when you're part of an under-privileged group, everything in life has an agenda that works against you, apparently. There can be no other reason for getting mistreated. It's never anything you've done wrong or you're just being targeted by an all-round nasty person, it must be because of a superficial thing about you that close-minded people detest. It's ironic how being under-privileged can make people arrogant. It's all very well to tell a picked-on person that they're better than the bullies but not everyone interprets this message correctly. Some continue to only hate the specific people who were mean to them. But others start hating everyone who remotely reminds them of those who were mean to them. I mean, it's natural to be get flashbacks every time you see someone who reminds you of someone who bullied you (I couldn't stand to look at Ashlee Simpson when a girl started bullying me who looked like her). But to actually think this way of thinking is acceptable and stand by it, take it as an acceptable way to deal with things, that's not the right attitude to take. You've got to realise that you're stronger than that and it's no way to live. You absolutely cannot think everyone who reminds you of a particular nasty person is nasty themselves and end up judging an entire race by that logic. I always loved the film, Babe, as a kid. Watching it as an adult, I realise how there's some racial commentary in there. The bit where Fly the sheepdog goes to speak to the sheep, the narrator says: "Fly decided to speak very slowly, for it was a cold fact of nature that sheep were stupid and no one would ever persuade her otherwise." Then the sheep reply and the narrator says: "The sheep spoke very slowly, for it was a cold fact of nature that wolves were ignorant and no one would ever persuade them otherwise." That's a great commentary of how racism functions. Racism and ignorance begets more racism and ignorance. It just takes different forms. But it just comes around in a cycle, breeding nothing but hatred and resentment. Stop judging the race, start judging individuals, be resentful towards specific people who were mean to you instead of an entire group of people, do research and think logically before making blind accusations.

11 minutes ago, Miel said:

As some people have said, it goes both ways.

Yes, a lot of people have become incredibly hypersensitive to a lot of issues. And while the intention could be in the right place, it oftentimes results in more messes than solutions. You know those situations where there's a yelling match for the sake of a yelling match- the literal fighting fire with fire.

On the other hand, it's incredibly important to note that this sort of trend in social awareness is actually beneficial for the whole of society. I mean, my favorite example is the whole idea of:

Man, kids these days can't take a joke.

What do you mean, we literally sit and laugh at memes all f*cking day. We just don't like racist jokes.

It's too easy to brush a society altogether as "oversensitive". So many issues that are in the limelight are in the limelight because they're a legitimate problem that is actually being talked about, as opposed to being majorly opposed, or even brushed under the carpet.

It's not so black and white.

That's a very intelligent post. Indeed, it's sad how some people see racism as a joke and think if the joke's funny, it's not racist. They don't even really know what racism is. Yes, a lot of these issues are rightfully now being spoken about and stuff is being done to change things. However, that doesn't translate to: "We should suck up to every single member of an under-privileged group, even ones who do wrong." And I know that isn't what SJW's will say is their aim, but unfortunately, that's not how their philosophies are being expressed. It's getting near enough impossible to point out a legitimately negative issue within a marginalised group without being accused of being intolerant and not getting it. Or even worse, suggesting that you, as a privileged person, are responsible for this negative issue you complain about and you are the one that needs to put in the effort to change it, not the marginalised group. Is it no wonder these groups continue to be marginalised and have negative images when they aren't encouraged to take steps to change their own fate?

[uo111 5,282]

25 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 People now act like it's solely the man's responsibility so much so that they don't blame the woman AT ALL.

I'm talking about real life, not tumblr. Literally no one does that. Even when the man takes off his wedding ring and lies, people blame the other woman. Even when he rapes her, people blame her.

Speaking of rape, serial rapist who actually pick and choose the women they want to rape are rarer than a mass shooter in the US. They use weapons to keep women from running. You can't prevent it by wearing flats and even if you could, are you going to tell victims of mass shootings it's their fault they were killed when they could've been wearing a bullet proof vest? Please.

It's one thing to say keep an eye on your drink. It's another thing to say, "well, you should've kept an eye on your drink." I'm so glad you haven't been raped. But if someone does want to drug your drink, I hope to god you have friends there because you will not notice. Even if you think you would.

[Hecturr 1,937]

my first semi hit thread  Loving all the responses tbh, nice to see a good discussion going on.

[Miel 15,009]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

That's a very intelligent post. Indeed, it's sad how some people see racism as a joke and think if the joke's funny, it's not racist. They don't even really know what racism is. Yes, a lot of these issues are rightfully now being spoken about and stuff is being done to change things. However, that doesn't translate to: "We should suck up to every single member of an under-privileged group, even ones who do wrong." And I know that isn't what SJW's will say is their aim, but unfortunately, that's not how their philosophies are being expressed. It's getting near enough impossible to point out a legitimately negative issue within a marginalised group without being accused of being intolerant and not getting it. Or even worse, suggesting that you, as a privileged person, are responsible for this negative issue you complain about and you are the one that needs to put in the effort to change it, not the marginalised group. Is it no wonder these groups continue to be marginalised and have negative images when they aren't encouraged to take steps to change their own fate?

Yeah, it's difficult because sometimes (err, a lot of times), issues are not as cut and dry as people want it to seem.

It's especially hard when people part of an underprivileged group try to explain this to their own family (obviously part of said underprivileged group). For my family, it's on that one end of the extreme where they won't acknowledge that they're experiencing any sort of social oppression at all, mostly factored in to their country's history of militarization by other countries (also, they're light-skinned, and sometimes that is just so frikkin' hard to get over, too).

[Miel 15,009]

34 minutes ago, uo111 said:

I'm talking about real life, not tumblr. Literally no one does that. Even when the man takes off his wedding ring and lies, people blame the other woman. Even when he rapes her, people blame her.

Speaking of rape, serial rapist who actually pick and choose the women they want to rape are rarer than a mass shooter in the US. They use weapons to keep women from running. You can't prevent it by wearing flats and even if you could, are you going to tell victims of mass shootings it's their fault they were killed when they could've been wearing a bullet proof vest? Please.

It's one thing to say keep an eye on your drink. It's another thing to say, "well, you should've kept an eye on your drink." I'm so glad you haven't been raped. But if someone does want to drug your drink, I hope to god you have friends there because you will not notice. Even if you think you would.

I agree.

I mean, granted, it could be different per region's attitude, but that's mostly my experience as well. I sometimes work with my university's administration, and god sometimes the way they handle Title IX cases is just so... bad.

My first year, there was a girl who was sexually assaulted/almost sexually assaulted by the guy who lived across the hall from her- she was super drunk and he was more than likely not as drunk, in relative terms (I heard he was stone cold sober). Anyway, what ended up happening is that she left the university for good, and he stayed.

It's just like... ??? And then our college housing administration literally sent an email to all the kids in that specific res hall, something about "be aware of what/how much you consume, as things like that can happen". It's like... of course we know that? So please place your attention on the assaulter, instead? God.

[Kayla 7,595]

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

People now act like it's solely the man's responsibility so much so that they don't blame the woman AT ALL. Because...feminism, slut shaming or some s**t. Yeah, giving a free pass to a woman who purses a man who's spoken for, that's real feminism.

It's the man's fault he cheated, but the woman who went after a man already in a relationship is a shitty person. The issue is when we hear someone has been cheated on, our first response shouldn't be to put most of the blame of the person they cheated on their spouse with, regardless of what gender everyone is. 

 

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

For example, getting a low score on a test must mean a racist teacher (even though you didn't try and couldn't spell), getting pulled over by a cop must be racist (even though you were acting suspiciously and carrying weed), getting teased for having your natural hair or being curvy by a bunch of schoolgirls must be racist (despite the fact that girls routinely tease other girls for their looks and body shape that is not 100% perfection) and not getting a job after an interview must mean a racist interviewer (when getting a job is just one of those things, you either get it or you don't). White people have had to deal with low scores on tests, getting pulled over by cops for seemingly no reason (maybe not in America, but trust me, it happens worldwide), getting their natural looks and body shape mocked (frizzy hair is generally considered an undesirable trait by pretty much all racial groups due to its unkempt-looking nature, hence why de-tangling, de-frizzing sprays exist and all body shapes that aren't slim get picked on and not just black women are curvy) and getting refused job interviews (don't I know it) with absolutely no complaints.

There are times when people get upset over nothing, of course. And those times are annoying. It is important to not let those odd scenarios overshadow the light that should be shed on real injustice, though. 

Getting a low score on a test doesn't mean a racist teacher, but the fact that so many black children are lacking educationally is something we as a society should focus on. When we see such drastic differences in educational level and abilities in a specific group, it should raise a red flag. Compared to white parents, black parents tend to have less education themselves and don't value the educational system as a result of perhaps their experiences or the experiences of their older family members who experienced segregation, so the mentality of valuing school is probably not passed down in the black community. The school system directly chose to fail them years ago, leaving following generations with a bad taste in their mouth, surely, and fewer black adults to lead by example.  So instead of telling people "getting a low test score doesn't mean a teacher is racist," we should be focusing on the fact that black families need help realizing school is valuable. 

About the getting pulled over, it is NOT always as simple as you made it out to be. YES, there ARE times where someone is acting suspicious and they end up having drugs, but did you know how many times black people get the cops called on them for "breaking into" their own home? For just being in a neighborhood the residents think they "probably don't belong in"? Do you know how many black people get watched and followed in a store because people think they'll steal something?

Legit, my stepmom ran a children's clothing store in the mall years ago and she told me "When black people come in we watch them closely because they're probably here to steal something." I gave her a funny look, and she continued, "Black people come in to get our clothes and re-sell it for money- they don't dress their kids in Gymboree, they'd rather buy their kids Fubu or Tommy Hilfiger."  

And did you SEE how Sandra Bland was yanked out of her car? Or the police officer that was chasing black kids around a pool party and held that, what, 14 year old?, on the ground?

Please do not let the times where police pull over obviously-suspicious people and find drugs blind you from the fact that racial profiling exists and is a problem. 

Being teased for appearances happens to everyone, but the issue is when you are looked down on for it but for someone else it's "cool," "edgy," or "sexy." (Also, kids have a habit of making fun of specifically black, or other "different" names, which I think is mean. )

About getting a job, again, NOT always as simple as you make it out to be. I had members of my own ****ing family tell me that "coloreds typically don't work as hard." - You think they're likely to hire a qualified black person over a white person? Hell no. So don't sit here and say a job is "you either get it or you don't." 

Also, when it comes to job interviews try also focusing on the white people who INSIST that when a black person gets a job it's "because of affirmative action!" and complain that they lost it to an unqualified black person because they're bitter. 

 

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, I'm not from the US, but this thread wasn't about issues within the US. It was about a general issue of hypersensitivity. The film posted had an all-British cast. That's because this problem is starting to expand among the Western world in general. Maybe not in the rest of the world, but within Western society. But yes, I do take into consideration the differences between America and Britain in these cases. But again, shouldn't we be looking at all this from an international perspective? A big reason why Jane Elliott's blue eyes/brown eyes experiment went down like a lead balloon when she did it in the UK is because we don't hold a lot of that BS that they do in America.

When I was talking about things related to race I was referring to race issues in America. Much like when I talk about women not being allowed to drive, I'm not talking about Iceland, I'm not talking about it on a global scale, I'm talking about it related to where those things are a problem. That should be obvious, imo. 

And you pointed out something- Jane Elliott's experiment works in the USA because we hold a lot of BS. In the UK you guys behave differently- your culture surrounding race is different. 

Can't you look at this EXACT example you just brought up to me as something to open your eyes to the fact that racism IS an issue in America that DOES effect the outcomes of the lives of so many people of color?

You can NOT take certain issues in an international perspective. You can't downplay racism in America because it's not as much an issue in Britain. You can't downplay sexism in Saudi Arabia because women are allowed to drive in Germany. You can't downplay homophobia in parts of the world where homosexuals are jailed because America just granted the right to marry. 

 

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I know all that stuff about rape. I am a woman, I've researched these statistics, I know what you mean. But I'm not talking about women who get raped by someone they know, I'm talking about rapists who rape strangers, just like that cop was.

The percentage of women raped by strangers is small. The percentage of women raped by strangers while wearing something provocative is also small. So telling women "don't dress like a slut," is "helping" an incredibly small proportion of rape victims and suggesting that as the method of protection raises red flags about a persons view of rape and women. Sorry, but it does. 

The issue is also that women DO get "blamed" a lot for being assaulted. And I don't know where you're getting off on this:

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But it seems like everyone else threw those principles out the window as soon as they became an adult. Like nothing bad happens to you when you're an adult if you walk down a dark alleyway or accept a drink from a stranger or go back to a stranger's house to have sex. I am genuinely confused at why becoming an adult makes people think they are now invincible to bad stuff happening to them. This isn't about targeting women or shaming rape victims, this is about making all adults realise that they aren't invincible and that safety precautions should be paramount through all areas of life. That doesn't mean they should be blamed if anything bad does happen to them if they don't follow these rules, but with any luck, they'll learn something from it. And as for men who get raped, that's a completely different scenario because gender changes it all. Therefore, a man's form of attire doesn't come into it at all (unless he's practically naked, of course). We know gender changes it all. That shouldn't have to be explained.

We're sitting here and talking about bad things that happen to adults, so how are you insisting that we think nothing bad happens to us and we are invincible? 

Women learn to walk home with a friend, never leave your drink unattended, and we've been told for years that "slutty" clothing means we're "asking for it," yet you sit here and say we think "nothing bad happens if you walk down a dark alleyway or accept a drink from a stranger"? 

We don't think we're invincible, but we're sick of people finding reasons to shift ANY ounce of the blame onto us when we are taken advantage of. 

Also, you pointed out yourself- we know gender changes it all. So WHY are women viewed so differently? Why is it that when we are assaulted our clothing plays a role but for men it doesn't? What IS so different about male rape and what causes those differences?

[Kayla 7,595]

13 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yep, somehow, when you're part of an under-privileged group, everything in life has an agenda that works against you, apparently. There can be no other reason for getting mistreated. It's never anything you've done wrong or you're just being targeted by an all-round nasty person, it must be because of a superficial thing about you that close-minded people detest. It's ironic how being under-privileged can make people arrogant.

The way you completely degrade real racism into this actually bothers the hell out of me. You make huge generalizations about how people of color see their problems and paint them all with the same brush. Many people do overreact and make something out of nothing, yes. But don't you stop to consider why these people are so touchy? 

Compare it to people in abusive relationships- they have triggers. They flinch when their next partner raises their hand because they're used to being hit. You don't tell that person, "Gosh, you think every time I raise my hand I'm going to hit you? Why do you assume every relationship is going to end in abuse?" 

People of color are sensitive for legitimate reason. And it's rude to use the instances when they're wrong to downplay the times when racism IS a factor for their mistreatment. You seem to want to ignore cultural biases in favor of more or less blaming black "arrogance" for their problems. 

Again- look at the differences between the UK and US in Jane Elliott's experiment. That in itself should be enough to raise some red flags for you regarding how our different cultures treat people differently and contribute to an agenda that DOES work against people. 

That being said, the black community should, in addition to pointing out flaws in the system, be finding ways to lift themselves up and stop viewing themselves as victims, as doing so contributes to the perception of their failure and the vicious cycle. (That being said, I am not ignoring the MANY scenarios of black pride- it does happen)

[Kayla 7,595]

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yet, certain racial groups have it into their head that their race is solely the reason behind anything bad that happens to them and that no one else suffers they way they do. As a white person, I look around and see suffering everywhere. Yet, so many black people look around and only seem to see suffering in their own race.

Couldn't that mentality be looked at differently to point out that so many black people are suffering but white people, you included, apparently, seem to think it's all made up?

Like this:
"Certain racial groups have it in their head that race is never the reason behind anything bad that happens and people of color are overreacting. As a black person, I look around and see suffering everywhere. Yet, so many white people look around and only seem to see excuses to downplay the suffering in my race."

 

[StrawberryBlond 15,561]

18 hours ago, uo111 said:

I'm talking about real life, not tumblr. Literally no one does that. Even when the man takes off his wedding ring and lies, people blame the other woman. Even when he rapes her, people blame her.

Speaking of rape, serial rapist who actually pick and choose the women they want to rape are rarer than a mass shooter in the US. They use weapons to keep women from running. You can't prevent it by wearing flats and even if you could, are you going to tell victims of mass shootings it's their fault they were killed when they could've been wearing a bullet proof vest? Please.

It's one thing to say keep an eye on your drink. It's another thing to say, "well, you should've kept an eye on your drink." I'm so glad you haven't been raped. But if someone does want to drug your drink, I hope to god you have friends there because you will not notice. Even if you think you would.

I'm not talking about tumblr, I'm talking about real life too. I am repeatedly seeing male cheaters in the media getting dragged but his mistress, not so much. It's a role reversal to the point where it's like she wasn't in the wrong at all. In Celebrity Big Brother UK, there was a scandal recently where an engaged man apparently had sex with another woman. I saw an article talking about his fiancee he cheated on and it explained that: "Remarkably, she directs a lot of her wrath not at Marco, but at the other woman." Despite her quote being centered around how evil it was of this girl to pursue him knowing he was with someone (and that she'd met his exes and they were really nice, unlike her). Why is it "remarkable" to be annoyed at the other woman, when she had full knowledge of the man's relationship status? Why is the other woman getting less flack these days? And anyone who does give her flack is bad? If she had no knowledge of the relationship, that's one thing, but if she did know, she has no excuse. Come on, have you never heard the phrase "it takes two to tango?" That phrase was invented to shift blame from the other woman onto the man and its been around for ages. I like to point out that indeed, it does take two to tango...which is why I'm not giving the mistress a free pass.

Here we go again - it is worrying how something being rare seems to translate into "doesn't need to be referred to and is basically mythical" in today's society. And it's disturbing how serial rapists who attack strangers seem to be the only "rare" issue that isn't discussed widely by SJW's. Oh, they won't let you forget about how rare instances must be brought up when it's to do with anything else. Because every issue matters, no matter how small. Except when it comes to serial rapists who attack strangers, apparently. They're so rare they don't need discussed and we don't need to protect ourselves against them. Try asking any girl who's been attacked by one of them every night of the week in any city club and find out how "rare" these rapists are. Unless it's the same man raping every girl in the entire country, perhaps the issue is more of a problem than you realise.

I'm not suggesting that we be so cold and flippant to women if their drink has been spiked. I'm saying that we should arm them with knowledge of how to protect themselves before it happens, to reduce the likihood, meaning that the girl won't have to blame herself for doing anything "wrong" and won't have to worry about anyone victim blaming her either. A horrible situation is so much easier to deal with if you know you did everything "right" and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If the worst does happen, the girl should be told, calmly and respectfully, about how she can avoid this happening again. In an ideal world, a woman could act however she wanted without being compromised but this isn't an ideal world. We have to protect ourselves against all the nut jobs out there. As we do throughout all areas of life. And about the "not knowing if your drink is spiked," thing - I don't go out to clubs, so that worry is reduced anyway. But if I did, I'd either drink from a bottle if possible or hold the glass directly under me all night (maybe even with my hand over it, I don't care how stupid it looks if it keeps me safe), not so much as putting it down on the table and would never leave it abandoned, covering it up if anyone approached. You could argue that this still isn't foolproof, but it's as close to foolproof as it can be. Every woman I know employs these techniques and they've never been spiked. That isn't me trying to be lord it over anyone, by the way, just proving how effective these techniques are.

18 hours ago, Miel said:

Yeah, it's difficult because sometimes (err, a lot of times), issues are not as cut and dry as people want it to seem.

It's especially hard when people part of an underprivileged group try to explain this to their own family (obviously part of said underprivileged group). For my family, it's on that one end of the extreme where they won't acknowledge that they're experiencing any sort of social oppression at all, mostly factored in to their country's history of militarization by other countries (also, they're light-skinned, and sometimes that is just so frikkin' hard to get over, too).

I know, but that doesn't change the fact that some issues are over-exaggerated or perceived to be racially based when they're not. I think that's the very definition of "not as cut and dry as people want it to seem."

18 hours ago, Miel said:

I agree.

I mean, granted, it could be different per region's attitude, but that's mostly my experience as well. I sometimes work with my university's administration, and god sometimes the way they handle Title IX cases is just so... bad.

My first year, there was a girl who was sexually assaulted/almost sexually assaulted by the guy who lived across the hall from her- she was super drunk and he was more than likely not as drunk, in relative terms (I heard he was stone cold sober). Anyway, what ended up happening is that she left the university for good, and he stayed.

It's just like... ??? And then our college housing administration literally sent an email to all the kids in that specific res hall, something about "be aware of what/how much you consume, as things like that can happen". It's like... of course we know that? So please place your attention on the assaulter, instead? God.

I know what you mean. And rape on college campuses needs to be dealt with better (TIHTY says hi) with more focus being put on the perpetrators. Specific attention also needs to be taken against the rape culture exhibited in student newspapers and unions (honestly, the stuff I've read about that goes on where rape jokes are used and the word "rape" is used and is considered perfectly acceptable would make your head spin). But what also needs to be done is ensure the safety the students, so they won't fall victim to these predators. Encouraging steps to ensure one's personal safety when there was so predators about is just common sense, nothing to do with victim blaming. It all comes down to: "There's bad people out there, some of them have been caught, some haven't, so here's how to protect yourselves against the ones who haven't been caught yet." Keeping yourself safe in general is one of life's biggest priorities. I don't know how often this needs to be explained. Yet SJW's still don't get it.

[StrawberryBlond 15,561]

8 hours ago, Kayla said:

It's the man's fault he cheated, but the woman who went after a man already in a relationship is a shitty person. The issue is when we hear someone has been cheated on, our first response shouldn't be to put most of the blame of the person they cheated on their spouse with, regardless of what gender everyone is. 

 

There are times when people get upset over nothing, of course. And those times are annoying. It is important to not let those odd scenarios overshadow the light that should be shed on real injustice, though. 

Getting a low score on a test doesn't mean a racist teacher, but the fact that so many black children are lacking educationally is something we as a society should focus on. When we see such drastic differences in educational level and abilities in a specific group, it should raise a red flag. Compared to white parents, black parents tend to have less education themselves and don't value the educational system as a result of perhaps their experiences or the experiences of their older family members who experienced segregation, so the mentality of valuing school is probably not passed down in the black community. The school system directly chose to fail them years ago, leaving following generations with a bad taste in their mouth, surely, and fewer black adults to lead by example.  So instead of telling people "getting a low test score doesn't mean a teacher is racist," we should be focusing on the fact that black families need help realizing school is valuable. 

About the getting pulled over, it is NOT always as simple as you made it out to be. YES, there ARE times where someone is acting suspicious and they end up having drugs, but did you know how many times black people get the cops called on them for "breaking into" their own home? For just being in a neighborhood the residents think they "probably don't belong in"? Do you know how many black people get watched and followed in a store because people think they'll steal something?

Legit, my stepmom ran a children's clothing store in the mall years ago and she told me "When black people come in we watch them closely because they're probably here to steal something." I gave her a funny look, and she continued, "Black people come in to get our clothes and re-sell it for money- they don't dress their kids in Gymboree, they'd rather buy their kids Fubu or Tommy Hilfiger."  

And did you SEE how Sandra Bland was yanked out of her car? Or the police officer that was chasing black kids around a pool party and held that, what, 14 year old?, on the ground?

Please do not let the times where police pull over obviously-suspicious people and find drugs blind you from the fact that racial profiling exists and is a problem. 

Being teased for appearances happens to everyone, but the issue is when you are looked down on for it but for someone else it's "cool," "edgy," or "sexy." (Also, kids have a habit of making fun of specifically black, or other "different" names, which I think is mean. )

About getting a job, again, NOT always as simple as you make it out to be. I had members of my own ****ing family tell me that "coloreds typically don't work as hard." - You think they're likely to hire a qualified black person over a white person? Hell no. So don't sit here and say a job is "you either get it or you don't." 

Also, when it comes to job interviews try also focusing on the white people who INSIST that when a black person gets a job it's "because of affirmative action!" and complain that they lost it to an unqualified black person because they're bitter. 

 

When I was talking about things related to race I was referring to race issues in America. Much like when I talk about women not being allowed to drive, I'm not talking about Iceland, I'm not talking about it on a global scale, I'm talking about it related to where those things are a problem. That should be obvious, imo. 

And you pointed out something- Jane Elliott's experiment works in the USA because we hold a lot of BS. In the UK you guys behave differently- your culture surrounding race is different. 

Can't you look at this EXACT example you just brought up to me as something to open your eyes to the fact that racism IS an issue in America that DOES effect the outcomes of the lives of so many people of color?

You can NOT take certain issues in an international perspective. You can't downplay racism in America because it's not as much an issue in Britain. You can't downplay sexism in Saudi Arabia because women are allowed to drive in Germany. You can't downplay homophobia in parts of the world where homosexuals are jailed because America just granted the right to marry. 

 

The percentage of women raped by strangers is small. The percentage of women raped by strangers while wearing something provocative is also small. So telling women "don't dress like a slut," is "helping" an incredibly small proportion of rape victims and suggesting that as the method of protection raises red flags about a persons view of rape and women. Sorry, but it does. 

The issue is also that women DO get "blamed" a lot for being assaulted. And I don't know where you're getting off on this:

We're sitting here and talking about bad things that happen to adults, so how are you insisting that we think nothing bad happens to us and we are invincible? 

Women learn to walk home with a friend, never leave your drink unattended, and we've been told for years that "slutty" clothing means we're "asking for it," yet you sit here and say we think "nothing bad happens if you walk down a dark alleyway or accept a drink from a stranger"? 

We don't think we're invincible, but we're sick of people finding reasons to shift ANY ounce of the blame onto us when we are taken advantage of. 

Also, you pointed out yourself- we know gender changes it all. So WHY are women viewed so differently? Why is it that when we are assaulted our clothing plays a role but for men it doesn't? What IS so different about male rape and what causes those differences?

I'm not saying we should put all the blame on the other woman. Just equal blame. My first reaction is to blame them both equally. Equal opportunities are supposed to be a good thing, right?

I'm not saying that the over-exaggerated issues should overshadow the important ones...but I'm also saying that, in reverse, we shouldn't build up the over-exaggerated ones to be more than they are and call them out on their exaggerated nature.

Your ideas about focusing on helping black families to realise that school is valuable is precisely the sort of things I'm advocating too. Just because we don't put down our views the same way doesn't mean I don't believe in this stuff. And I know I simplified the issue of black people being pulled over by cops, but I did that deliberately, to call out the ones who were actually doing wrong, yet still think there's some conspiracy against them. Because there are those who seriously try to defend themselves despite actually doing criminal behaviour (this same behaviour that has led to stereotypes of their race, hence, perhaps partially contributing to being pulled over in the first place). The stereotype only exists because there is a sizeable amount of blacks doing crime. Yes, there is a big issue with blacks being pulled over purely for reasons of racial profiling, but I think things like location need to be taken into consideration. There's so much black crime going on in downtown LA that it's going to make cops extra suspicious of any blacks in hoodies, or loitering in a group or cruising slowly in a car. Is it profiling? Yes. Is that wrong? Yes. But is the suspicion valid, given the situation? Yes. For me, personally, the sight of black people in hoodies and in large groups doesn't bother me, but that's partly because I live in Scotland, where black people are rarer and don't cause trouble. If I was in New York or LA, my perspective is changed a bit. And for the record, I'm more worried about the sight of white people in hoodies and in large groups, because where I'm from, people like that do cause trouble. And that idea is seen as perfectly acceptable because I'm putting down white people, and my own race at that. Yet, it would be considered racist if the race was reversed. It's all relative to where you are. If there's people adhering to a stereotype in your area, you can't be blamed for jumping to conclusions a bit. It's just being realistic. It's human nature. It's natural instinct. And it isn't just blacks who get stopped for stupid stuff, by the way. I've lost count of the amount of cases I've heard about in the US of white people getting tasered by cops over nothing. My white friend who lives in Pittsburgh told me that he was once stopped by the cops for not picking up his dog's poo quick enough. That is how **** some cops are. It's not always to be taken as a such a deeply personal thing. The policing system in general needs a re-think. People of all races suffer from police stupidity and brutality. Some to bigger degrees than others, yes, but still affects us all. But about the racial profiling in stores, yes, that is a genuine problem and there's no excuse for that, let's make that clear. Now that is clear racism, that is something worth complaining about. Quick sidenote, though, a supermarket in my country is gaining a terrible reputation for being desperate to frame anyone for shoplifting but that's a whole nother story.

Yeah, I get what you're saying about being teased for appearances but certain other people can get away with it but sorry, that just doesn't apply to something like frizzy hair. Hair fashions have thankfully moved on from the super-straight craze of the previous decade (the decade I was unfortunately at high school during, which resulted in a bad time for me as any girl who didn't have a pair of straighteners on hand 24/7 was looked at as a freak) but I've yet to see truly frizzy hair, on black or white people, be seen as attractive. And for anyone referencing those white girls on Instagram who post photos of themselves with braids or dreadlocks and they comments about looking beautiful and exotic...that's just the people viewing those pics. There are plenty of others willing to call them a wigga or say they look ridiculous. And black girls who post pics of similar styles get comments like "african queen" and "ebony princess" and the like. But there are also some close-minded people who would say they look like hoodrats. Again, it all comes down to relativity and who is specifically responding in this particular case. You can get positive or negative reception based on where you go looking for it. I once saw someone state that we laugh at women who get lip injections and butt implants because it reminds them of the look of a black woman, which is unattractive in their minds. No, it's because these women get their lips plumped so ridiculously that they're way too big for their facial structure and get their asses pumped up so much, it looks like they've stuffed two party balloons up there! The end result is an overly fake blow up doll, a caricature of a female fantasy. That's the reason for our put downs. And as for black names...even black people put them down for purposefully extending stereotypes. Not that anyone should laugh at them, but come on, some are a bit silly. Just as silly as the names some white people give their kids. Once again, notice how it's acceptable to criticise one race (white) but not the other?

Yes, I know some POC get refused a job based on their colour and stereotypes. But again, being refused is not so simple, there's a whole ton of superficial stuff interviewers dismiss you on, before they even get to your race. My aunt once said that when an interviewee made it past reception, everyone would be whispering to each other stuff like: "Scuffed shoes and chipped nail polish, they aren't getting that job." She also explained to me that her boss once refused a girl a job because (after deciding to give her a second chance despite her too-short skirt and too-high heels) she couldn't give a good handshake. I went to be interviewed by that guy and made sure my handshake was spot on, didn't get the job, despite the connection to my aunt. My cousin once said she went for a group interview for a clothing store. She has a degree in fashion marketing. You'd think it'd be a walk-over, right? No, because the interview was completely dominated by a woman who loved the sound of her own voice and just blabbered on about how she'd worked in a pub for years (as if that made her qualified). No one else could get a word in. Guess who got the job at the end? The woman who put herself forward the most, as opposed to people who were more qualified. Introversion is one of the biggest enemies in interviews today, along with lack of experience and poor clothing choices. I can't get a job due to those first 2 reasons. I try to be something I'm not, it doesn't work. I won't get any experience if no one will ever hire me. It's an endless cycle. My race, along with a degree, hasn't helped me one bit in finding a job. This is why the issue of race helping people get jobs is a major bone of contention for me.

8 hours ago, Kayla said:

The way you completely degrade real racism into this actually bothers the hell out of me. You make huge generalizations about how people of color see their problems and paint them all with the same brush. Many people do overreact and make something out of nothing, yes. But don't you stop to consider why these people are so touchy? 

Compare it to people in abusive relationships- they have triggers. They flinch when their next partner raises their hand because they're used to being hit. You don't tell that person, "Gosh, you think every time I raise my hand I'm going to hit you? Why do you assume every relationship is going to end in abuse?" 

People of color are sensitive for legitimate reason. And it's rude to use the instances when they're wrong to downplay the times when racism IS a factor for their mistreatment. You seem to want to ignore cultural biases in favor of more or less blaming black "arrogance" for their problems. 

Again- look at the differences between the UK and US in Jane Elliott's experiment. That in itself should be enough to raise some red flags for you regarding how our different cultures treat people differently and contribute to an agenda that DOES work against people. 

That being said, the black community should, in addition to pointing out flaws in the system, be finding ways to lift themselves up and stop viewing themselves as victims, as doing so contributes to the perception of their failure and the vicious cycle. (That being said, I am not ignoring the MANY scenarios of black pride- it does happen)

I'm not painting them all with the same brush, just referring to the particular ones that are troublesome. Yes, I stop to consider why these people are so touchy. But it still doesn't excuse them for spouting untruths and exaggerations. Whites are constantly called out for spouting untruths and exaggerations about racism but everyone else gets a free pass to be as ignorant as they want because being oppressed gives you the privilege to not be questioned, apparently. I mean, I've seen enough of this in feminism (and as a woman, I want to be treated equally, not given a free pass). I know it when I see it happening in other groups too.

I could turn it around and say you are using the times when they're right to downplay the times when racism is NOT a factor for their mistreatment. Isn't that equally bad? I'm trying to find a middle crowd here - support them when they're right, call them out when they're wrong. Just like the rest of society. Isn't that fair?

What you should also consider in Jane Elliott's experiment is that she doesn't change her language or cultural leanings when she switched to the UK, so the things she accused the blue eyed people of was pretty inaccurate. She seemed to think both countries spoke and stereotyped the same way (not to mention, once had the same level of power over minorities and did the same injustices to them). Different statistics and general procedures too. I think that's why so many tried to call her out as being factually inaccurate. Yet, she still seemed to think she'd won at the end of the day and her experiment had been a success. She also never takes into consideration what life these white subjects have lived/are living. They could have suffered more than some black people. But that's not the agenda she wants to push.

And that's what I'm suggesting too. Fight the flaws of the system while simultaneously trying to rise above those flaws, as trying to break the stereotypes and break the cycle is what can truly make a difference to a group's social standing.

8 hours ago, Kayla said:

Couldn't that mentality be looked at differently to point out that so many black people are suffering but white people, you included, apparently, seem to think it's all made up?

Like this:
"Certain racial groups have it in their head that race is never the reason behind anything bad that happens and people of color are overreacting. As a black person, I look around and see suffering everywhere. Yet, so many white people look around and only seem to see excuses to downplay the suffering in my race."

 

Yes, but I'm a non-racist white person who's educated myself on racism and therefore knows the facts from the fiction. Which is why I speak out against the fiction, urging people to focus on the issues that we know are real. I also know that suffering affects us all and think all people need help, not just POC and certainly not just blacks. I notice that, especially in America, when people say "POC," they mean black. When they talk about coloured people, they mean black people. When they talk about racial issues, they mean black issues. It seems like no one wants to discuss the issues affecting Asians and Native Americans (maybe to an extent, Hispanics, although, as a European, I view them as an ethnicity, not a race). I actually had a black user on GGD say to me that Asians don't really suffer at all and they have a great life in America because of all this stereotypical stuff about strict parenting and good schooling and suchlike. Not one mention of all the negativity that Asians suffer for all different reasons, I even posted him evidence to prove otherwise. He dismissed it all. The ultimate irony considering whites are frequently told that racism exists, we just haven't noticed it. That's what I mean when I say that certain black people seem to be completely focused on their own problems and think they are the only ones suffering. I'm sick of being stereotyped as being ignorant to others suffering just because I'm white. I'm probably more educated than most on foreign suffering. I actually look around me and see it, I even see stuff that others don't see. I've always been the anti-racist for as long as I can remember. And no one had to teach me to be that way either.