Great article about Islam and Homosexuality (History/Culture)

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

7 minutes ago, JourneyToAvalon said:

Gurl, I know you know which one's which.

Because homosexuality itself wasn't a huge issue until recently, like I said, it wasn't as prevalent or talked about before.. in any country for that matter. We know that the rules were always there, we just don't know how they were dealt with.

And I have a strong feeling that a lot of Muslim countries didn't even acknowledge homosexuality until recently.

"Homosexuality? Wtf is that?"  

(Although I'm no expert on the matter, just my two cents. )

 

They didn't have a word for it exactly, true, but they just summed it up along with all other unusual sexual proclivities. 

The point I'm trying to make is that was more or less a "don't ask don't tell" kind of situation. It wasn't celebrated, but it wasn't persecuted either.

[avalon x 4,195]

32 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

Even you mentioned it. There's an important distinction to be made between religion and culture.

Clearly they are related, for example when it comes to extremism being justified by religious zealotry, but this wasn't the case here.

Islam frowned about homosexuality, but the culture didn't until recently. It wasn't celebrated or anything but it wasn't the "50 lashes" kind of deal you see today.

I thought I made it more clear.  The writings of the Quran (the religion) has always been the same while the actions of the people (the culture) chose to follow or not follow it. 

50 lashes is actually a really old form of punishment (as far as I've heard) and it is one of the things that has been passed down from previous generations, it is also one of the lesser forms of punishments. If you look at other Muslim countries, they serve death sentences as a punishment for homosexuality which are decreasing and some of them are turning into life sentences and a lot of Muslim countries are even making it legal. And if whipping was newly introduced to a country then it's to probably to avoid giving them a capital punishment for the first offense.

" In Egypt, openly gay men have been prosecuted under general public morality laws. (See Cairo 52.) In Saudi Arabia, the maximum punishment for homosexual acts is public execution, which is often carried out.^[58] The government will sometimes use lesser punishments—for example, fines, time in prison, and whipping—as alternatives."

Imo, things are getting better instead of worse in Muslim countries.

Not sure if this passage is relevant but...

Ancient Israel

The ancient Law of Moses (the Torah) forbids men lying with men (intercourse) in Leviticus 18 and gives a story of attempted homosexual rape in Genesis in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities being soon destroyed after that. The death penalty was prescribed. In Deuteronomy 22:5, cross-dressing is condemned as being "abominable".

 

Yowza. 

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

1 hour ago, JourneyToAvalon said:

I thought I made it more clear.  The writings of the Quran (the religion) has always been the same while the actions of the people (the culture) chose to follow or not follow it. 

50 lashes is actually a really old form of punishment (as far as I've heard) and it is one of the things that has been passed down from previous generations, it is also one of the lesser forms of punishments. If you look at other Muslim countries, they serve death sentences as a punishment for homosexuality which are decreasing and some of them are turning into life sentences and a lot of Muslim countries are even making it legal. And if whipping was newly introduced to a country then it's to probably to avoid giving them a capital punishment for the first offense.

" In Egypt, openly gay men have been prosecuted under general public morality laws. (See Cairo 52.) In Saudi Arabia, the maximum punishment for homosexual acts is public execution, which is often carried out.^[58] The government will sometimes use lesser punishments—for example, fines, time in prison, and whipping—as alternatives."

Imo, things are getting better instead of worse in Muslim countries.

Not sure if this passage is relevant but...

Ancient Israel

The ancient Law of Moses (the Torah) forbids men lying with men (intercourse) in Leviticus 18 and gives a story of attempted homosexual rape in Genesis in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities being soon destroyed after that. The death penalty was prescribed. In Deuteronomy 22:5, cross-dressing is condemned as being "abominable".

 

Yowza. 

 

I think we're talking about different things lol

I agree that the situation is horrible now and I'm glad that things are getting better in general, mostly in part due to globalization and Western influence.

I was merely making the statement that things were decent in the past and only got horrible relatively recently in history. 

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By the way the story you are referring to is up for interpretation. Alternate interpretations are that the denizens were wicked (as in they were not following his laws), that the act was retribution for their glorification of rape (who had raped an Angel), or that they were punished for being inhospitable to guests.

The most rational one (as far as theology goes) is that the story was meant to denounce the act of rape.

Homosexuality was only tied to it later, with only ONE line being the source of justification being:

Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly"

... believing that it implies homosexuality is clearly a reach. Rape was a far more common and deplorable act especially among family members (and it happened a lot). Given that a lot of wars in ancient history were because of similar reasons, it's arguably that the story is based on these events. The religion used those events and inserted heavenly justifications.

Isn't rape a reason for a lot of wars in History?  Looking at you Troy.

Clearly, kingdoms wouldn't destroy each other cause someone was a friend of Dorothy.

Not sure about the Torah. I only know the Old Testament which is basically a version of it.

[SychosSoChic 9,995]

How many more centuries until these religions become Greek level myths and we're following a whole new bunch of up to date religions that will probably praise same sex relationships and condemn whatever social issue we come up with in the future?

I bet the religions will condemn either furries (I believe in a century we'll be DNA splicing with animals, bookmark me and quote me in 2150) or Atlanteans/Aliens

[Chromatislaps 34,854]

On 23-4-2016 at 6:03 PM, JourneyToAvalon said:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

 

 

 nnn the logic