Clinton “goysplains” to Bernie Sanders in Passover article

[lego 44,165]

25 minutes ago, Whispering said:

No, you are completely wrong. The Old Testament is extremely important in understanding what the New Testament is about. I know thinking this isn't the case supports your bias and agenda, but you are way off on your statement. You would know how innacurate your thinking is if you had grown up in the US in families and societies that were predominately Christian. 

 

20 minutes ago, Whispering said:

If you were to ask a random Christian, who is somewhere around Hillary's age, about the stories and major people in the Old Testament, they would know exactly what you were talking about. They would tell you that they believe those stories happened and that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God.   

 

Studied or cherry picked? 

11 kinds of Bible verses Christians love to ignore

7 Shocking Bible Verses You Probably Won’t Hear In Church

How would they explain these passages? 

Do they believe in them or reject them? 

 

[Melech 9,900]

5 hours ago, just4fun said:

Yes and no. People turn to Judaism all the time. You can't turn Black, Hispanic or Asian. Arabs can be many religions most are Muslim. Those who turn to Judism become heavily invested in what happens in Isreal just as much as those who were born to it. 

That's not true lol. You can't just turn to Judaism. You can become Jewish through your mum. The conversion process is really long. Jewish is an ethnicity. Don't teach me on my people. 

[Whispering 18,865]

22 minutes ago, YourSweet666 said:

 

 

Studied or cherry picked? 

11 kinds of Bible verses Christians love to ignore

7 Shocking Bible Verses You Probably Won’t Hear In Church

How would they explain these passages? 

Do they believe in them or reject them? 

 

Christians believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God. They study it, have sermons from it and it is in their Bible. 

Christians know that the Old Testament was the Bible of Jesus. He read from it, quoted it, interpreted it, and declared himself to be the fulfillment of many of its promises. The first church taught from it and lifted it up. When the apostles spoke of the prophecy and of the history of the church they were establishing, they were quoting and referring to the OT. The writers of the New Testament believed the Old Testament was the word of God, There are 300 direct quotes in the NT from the OT and it makes up ten percent of the New Testament...which is the same percentage as the quotes from Jesus. Therefore, you can't study the New Testament without seeing quotes from the Old Testament and reading stories from the OT.  The story of redemption starts in the Old Tetament and is essential to understanding that story. It explains the ministry of Jesus and contains the roots of the gospel. 

That doesn't mean that Christians believe that the law of old should be followed, as they follow the law of the NT. That does mean that they find it to be one part of a whole. They find it to be essential for their belief. How is that so hard to understand....unless you aren't even trying because it doesn't fit your agenda? 

Now, perhaps your version of Christianity is very different in a country outside of the US, but what I described above is the way that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe and worship in the US. 

[Melech 9,900]

2 hours ago, IWantTheFame said:

came here because of the word goysplain 

 

sounds just as gross to me as a word like moist 

Goy is not a bad word. It's Hebrew and basically means nation. It is used by Jews to describe non jews

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

That's not true lol. You can't just turn to Judaism. You can become Jewish through your mum. The conversion process is really long. Jewish is an ethnicity. Don't teach me on my people. 

Excuse me. I'm not teaching anything. But if I have too I will go to a Rabbi and ask for the steps to convert to Judiasm and I will post them. Heck it's probably a google search away. I was born a Christian; it doesn't mean I know every rule law or have the bible memorized from start to finish. I find the arguement of shushing people because they are not part of a particular group very rude. "Don't teach on my people." Is a dumb statement. If you have something to add on Christianity add it. I won't shush you. I will prove you wrong if it is wrong, but hushing people up is ridiculous. 

[lego 44,165]

36 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Christians believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God. They study it, have sermons from it and it is in their Bible. 

Christians know that the Old Testament was the Bible of Jesus. He read from it, quoted it, interpreted it, and declared himself to be the fulfillment of many of its promises. The first church taught from it and lifted it up. When the apostles spoke of the prophecy and of the history of the church they were establishing, they were quoting and referring to the OT. The writers of the New Testament believed the Old Testament was the word of God, There are 300 direct quotes in the NT from the OT and it makes up ten percent of the New Testament...which is the same percentage as the quotes from Jesus. Therefore, you can't study the New Testament without seeing quotes from the Old Testament and reading stories from the OT.  The story of redemption starts in the Old Tetament and is essential to understanding that story. It explains the ministry of Jesus and contains the roots of the gospel. 

That doesn't mean that Christians believe that the law of old should be followed, as they follow the law of the NT. That does mean that they find it to be one part of a whole. They find it to be essential for their belief. How is that so hard to understand....unless you aren't even trying because it doesn't fit your agenda? 

Now, perhaps your version of Christianity is very different in a country outside of the US, but what I described above is the way that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe and worship in the US. 

 

You wrote a lot, but didn't really answer my question. 

But nevermind. In my view, it's cherrypicking. 

Let's leave it at that. 

[Melech 9,900]

19 minutes ago, just4fun said:

Excuse me. I'm not teaching anything. But if I have too I will go to a Rabbi and ask for the steps to convert to Judiasm and I will post them. Heck it's probably a google search away. I was born a Christian; it doesn't mean I know every rule law or have the bible memorized from start to finish. I find the arguement of shushing people because they are not part of a particular group very rude. "Don't teach on my people." Is a dumb statement. If you have something to add on Christianity added it. I won't shush you. I will prove you wrong if it is wrong, but hushing people up is ridiculous. 

Oh excuse me. Jews is an ethnicity. Converting is difficult as fück. Of course you can start it. Anyway Judaism is an ethnicity, no matter what a clueless goy is saying  

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

Oh excuse me. Jews is an ethnicity. Converting is difficult as fück. Of course you can start it. Anyway Judaism is an ethnicity, no matter what a clueless goy is saying  

Lol pathetic and reported. Have a nice day. 

[Melech 9,900]

Just now, just4fun said:

Lol pathetic and reported. Have a nice day. 

I didn't even insult you, but whatevs. Hitler didn't kill 6 million Jews including Jews who converted to Christianity because of the religion 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

I didn't even insult you, but whatevs. Hitler didn't kill 6 million Jews including Jews who converted to Christianity because of the religion 

Please stop quoting me. This goy refuses to debate anything with you. Have a nice day. 

[Whispering 18,865]

16 minutes ago, YourSweet666 said:

 

You wrote a lot, but didn't really answer my question. 

But nevermind. In my view, it's cherrypicking. 

Let's leave it at that. 

Every religion in the world, and in Christianity...every denomination, is going to cherrypick. That doesn't mean that they don't believe that their religious doctrine is inspired. 

What does cherrypicking have to do with whether someone believes in their religion or their religious script or not? They pick out the things that they feel are important or that matches up with their particular interpretation, which is what every religion does. That doesn't mean that a Christian doesn't study and hear lessons from the Old Testament. To study the New Testament or hear sermons from it, you have to be hearing the OT, since it is quoted and referred to by Jesus and his disciples. 

You know that you are wrong and you have pulled something in that is entirely beside the point to try to distract from the fact that your statement was innacurate. You have to know this. Just admit that you haven't lived in the US for decades, didn't grow up going to church and being around people who went to other churches in the US and therefore you don't know everything there is to know about growing up in the world of Christianity in the US. 

[lego 44,165]

4 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Every religion in the world, and in Christianity...every denomination is going to cherrypick. That doesn't mean that they don't believe that their religious doctrine is inspired. 

What does cherrypicking have to do with whether someone believes in their religion or their religious script or not? They pick out the things that they feel are important or that matches up with their particular interpretation and try to explain away the rest, which is what every religion does. That doesn't mean that a Christian doesn't study and hear lessons from the Old Testament. To study the New Testament or hear sermons from it, you have to be hearing the OT, since it is quoted and referred to by Jesus and his disciples. 

You know that you are wrong and you have pulled something in that is entirely beside the point to try to distract from the fact that your statement was innacurate. You have to know this. Just admit that you haven't lived in the US for decades, didn't grow up going to church and being around people who went to other churches in the US and therefore you don't know everything there is to know about growing up in the world of Christianity in the US. 

 

It has to do with the fact that some important parts are ignored and rejected, making a "new book" more important and relevant. I never claimed to live in the US so why would I admit?(lol), I have experiences from other countries about the religion we are discussing. 

Hillary would never quote something from New Testament because it's irrelevant to the Jews, therefore it was pandering. Just admit it:) 

 

[Whispering 18,865]

23 minutes ago, YourSweet666 said:

 

It has to do with the fact that some important parts are ignored and rejected, making a "new book" more important and relevant. I never claimed to live in the US so why would I admit?(lol), I have experiences from other countries about the religion we are discussing. 

Hillary would never quote something from New Testament because it's irrelevant to the Jews, therefore it was pandering. Just admit it:) 

 

Some verses are interpreted differently by different denominations. That has nothing to do with the fact that Christians believe that the Old Testament is every bit as inspired as the New Testament. The Old Testament is included in their religious doctrine. It is not ignored by the Christian religion in the US, which is where Clinton has her religious background. 

I would think not, since the New Testament isn't included in their religious doctrine. The Old Testament, however, is something that they both believe is the inspired word of God. 

[TiphEret 1,320]

6 hours ago, LebaneseDude said:

I'd love to hear them 

Ahahaha honestly I didn't want to get into a debate about that but... first she equates BDS to anti semitism. Of course some uses BDS as a platform to spread hatred but in other cases it has also been used to talk about Israel policies and anti semitism was not tolerated. I know in France it went to far but I can find an opposite example with how it was dealt at my uni. Opposing Israel does not equate anti semitism. So here I would disagree with her. So saying boycott equal intolerance is not ok IMO , people should be free to buy or not buy the product they want.

When she says Jews have always stood for other minorities, excuse me but thats' demagogic BS and we know it! Not saying that Jews are hating but just one word comes to my mind: settlement? If Jews were so supportive of minority how about the fundamentalist that go to the West Bank? I don't think they care so much about the locals there? 

For me the weakest thing is that she cites the book of exodus. Yeah that's nice but Zionism started in Eastern Europe and it is mostly a socialist ideology, it is about a secular state of Israel for Jewish people not about a Jewish state which is very different. I find it odd to use a religious text to support Zionism when many religious Jews oppose Zionism and the State of Israel because it goes against their interpretation of Judaism.

Finally she talks about the risk of Israel being isolated and possibly attacked. I am sorry I won't get into this too deep because I don't know all the current politics in the ME but if you take Syria. Syria is a mess. i highly doubt they would target Israel. Potentially ISIS could but they are busy with Europe. Jordan and Egypt are not enemy country. Egypt has lost against Israel, they have learnt their lesson, same goes for other neighbour country. Again Iran has other things to deal with they have no logical reason to attack Israel, war cost money and Israel has a very good army, so you have to be very stupid or very rich to launch a war against them. So what is the threat? The current conflict and for a while now Israel has control and I don't see why remaining neutral would all of sudden make Palestinian powerful, as if they would create an official government the second the US change it's policy of unconditionnal support. 

I could also add there is a lot of hypocrisy because we know the US needs Israel as an ally and especially against Iran, they want to weaken Iran because it's one the few independent from the US influence and most Western countries. 

So here you go. I am not saying she doesn't support Palestinians, but just that her piece of writing is weak and it's easy to disagree with her. I didn't take too long and you could probably contradict my arguments, but I just showed you don't need to say "oh a goy" to attack her.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

16 minutes ago, TiphEret said:

Ahahaha honestly I didn't want to get into a debate about that but... first she equates BDS to anti semitism. Of course some uses BDS as a platform to spread hatred but in other cases it has also been used to talk about Israel policies and anti semitism was not tolerated. I know in France it went to far but I can find an opposite example with how it was dealt at my uni. Opposing Israel does not equate anti semitism. So here I would disagree with her. So saying boycott equal intolerance is not ok IMO , people should be free to buy or not buy the product they want.

When she says Jews have always stood for other minorities, excuse me but thats' demagogic BS and we know it! Not saying that Jews are hating but just one word comes to my mind: settlement? If Jews were so supportive of minority how about the fundamentalist that go to the West Bank? I don't think they care so much about the locals there? 

For me the weakest thing is that she cites the book of exodus. Yeah that's nice but Zionism started in Eastern Europe and it is mostly a socialist ideology, it is about a secular state of Israel for Jewish people not about a Jewish state which is very different. I find it odd to use a religious text to support Zionism when many religious Jews oppose Zionism and the State of Israel because it goes against their interpretation of Judaism.

Finally she talks about the risk of Israel being isolated and possibly attacked. I am sorry I won't get into this too deep because I don't know all the current politics in the ME but if you take Syria. Syria is a mess. i highly doubt they would target Israel. Potentially ISIS could but they are busy with Europe. Jordan and Egypt are not enemy country. Egypt has lost against Israel, they have learnt their lesson, same goes for other neighbour country. Again Iran has other things to deal with they have no logical reason to attack Israel, war cost money and Israel has a very good army, so you have to be very stupid or very rich to launch a war against them. So what is the threat? The current conflict and for a while now Israel has control and I don't see why remaining neutral would all of sudden make Palestinian powerful, as if they would create an official government the second the US change it's policy of unconditionnal support. 

I could also add there is a lot of hypocrisy because we know the US needs Israel as an ally and especially against Iran, they want to weaken Iran because it's one the few independent from the US influence and most Western countries. 

So here you go. I am not saying she doesn't support Palestinians, but just that her piece of writing is weak and it's easy to disagree with her. I didn't take too long and you could probably contradict my arguments, but I just showed you don't need to say "oh a goy" to attack her.

Hot damn that's a lengthy response lol.

I agree with your first paragraph actually. I don't believe it's anti-semitism to boycott Israel, as long as the reason is strictly not xenophobic. The thing is, it's simple to forget that boycotting Israel undermines not only the government but the more or less innocent people who simply want to live their life in peace.

Where Hillary stands, as I understand it, is as someone who is fighting against the negative portrayal that Israel has been the subject to. While I disagree with her about many points in this issue, I don't feel that it's fair to paint her as anti-Palestinian either. Even she disagrees with a lot of Israel's policies, but simultaneously understands that they are a key ally that should not be undermined so readily.

So in my viewpoint, Hillary is standing more with the Israelis than the government itself. I don't see how that is an inherently bad stance. Someone needs to stand up to the Israeli citizens' rights too, especially when it's so easy to demonize them all. 

Many people are (justifiably) pro-Palestinian, as am I by the way, but an alarming percentage of these people simultaneously and unjustly believe that all Israelis are evil people that are out to get everyone else. This is the sort of **** I hear from Hezbollah. That alone tells you how hyperbolic and inane it is. 

As I said, I don't agree with some of her stances in this issue, but her foreign policy is far better than Trump for example who wants to incite conflict with ****ing China (a FAR worse threat than anything in the Middle East ). At worst, the status quo with Israel will remain. At best, perhaps she'll continue trying to find some level of peace with Palestine. I hope she does, at least.

Regarding your longest paragraph, I disagree. Israel is under a significant threat from Iran and Saudi Arabia, moreso the former than the latter. In Lebanon for example, Iran operates against them using Hezbollah as a proxy. While outright warfare is not likely to happen at the moment, Israel's safety is constantly being undermined by terrorists and indirect diplomacy at their expense (such as boycotts which are hilariously being undone by their supposed enemies while they continue to use Lebanon as their battleground but I digress).

Regarding your statement about "standing for minorities", I'd be careful in distinguishing between Israel and Jews. While Israel is informally a Jewish state, not all Jews stand in it. It's not incorrect to make the claim that Jewish people have had a history of cooperation with other cultures, which I assume is what Hillary is referring to when she talks about minorities. In fact their survival all but required them to cooperate with everyone else.