"Lady Gaga doesn't think the government should decide if a crime happened"

[StrawberryBlond 14,813]

17 hours ago, Whispering said:

@StrawberryBlond

Most rapes are not due to some scantily clad drunk person in an ally with no money and no phone. 

Approximately 4/5 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
82% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger. 
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
25% are an intimate.
 

The large majority of rapists are not hiding in the bushes or in an ally. The rapists are friends, family members, bosses, mentors, teachers, coaches, dates, boyfriends, husbands....people they know and trust. 

I know, but there are still plenty of rapes (and molestations) that occur involving strangers. It's wrong not to focus in on the "smaller" issue just because there are other situations that are more common. Focus should be on all rape situations, not just the most common ones. And also, some of these victims who know the rapist were also in the situation of being a bit out of control at the time. I've read many stories about girls who said they were drunk around their friend's boyfriend and when they were alone, they got raped but she was too drunk to push him off or scream for help. Another twist on the same situation is getting raped/molested while drunk but being so out of it that she couldn't remember for sure if it actually happened or if it was just her drunken state feeding her false memories. These concepts terrify me. This is why I don't get drunk. But if I ever did, this is why I'd never get drunk in public. I wouldn't even like to get drunk at a friend or relative's place. I don't like the idea of not knowing where I am or not being certain that I'll make it back home tonight or not remembering what happened last night. I don't know why this isn't part of everyone else's M.O. My aim is always to be sober in public. This way, if the worst does come to the worst against all the odds, I'll have the physical and mental capacity to save myself and remember all the details to report to the police later. It breaks my heart to think of all those victims who try to report the crime but they never get justice because they were too drunk to remember what time it was, where it happened and what the attacker looked like. And of course, that they got raped in the first place because their drunken state prevented them from self defence.

It's a well known fact that rapists (especially date rapers) target people who look vulnerable. They're not going to go after the girl who's sober and drinking from a bottle. They'll go after the girl who's so drunk she can barely stand and drinking from a glass that she's not covering and is always abandoning it to get up and dance/go to the toilet. This is why, out of all the rapes that occur in clubs, you rarely ever hear rape stories from sober girls who kept their drink safe all night. It's the ones who were clearly vulnerable that get preyed upon. We might not be able to convince rapists not to rape but we can at least make it extremely difficult for them to achieve their aims as long as they're among us. Telling a girl to keep herself safe is just like every other security measure, it's not putting the blame on girls at all, it's just general safety measures, just like locking your doors. And honestly, I'd say the same for men. They're at risk too. Remember that, aside from rape, you can come to grief in a whole host of other ways when you're drunk. You can get robbed, murdered, walk into the path of an oncoming car, fall into a river and drown, collapse and die from hypothermia. Getting drunk in public is reckless to one's own safety in so many ways. It's madness not to warn people to protect themselves. This is just common sense.

[BuzzcutSeason 3,307]

Any publicity is good publicity in this mini era of praise. Everyone in the world loves her now. Negativity will turn to positivity. It's weird how people are taking it outta context tho.

[Evan Peters 10,738]

honestly, i knew what gaga meant but she didn't word it the right way. i'm pretty sure gaga doesn't go advocating for people who pretend to get raped just to **** over someone. it's a very serious problem and takes away from actual rape victims. 

[TiphEret 1,320]

7 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I know, but there are still plenty of rapes (and molestations) that occur involving strangers. It's wrong not to focus in on the "smaller" issue just because there are other situations that are more common. Focus should be on all rape situations, not just the most common ones. And also, some of these victims who know the rapist were also in the situation of being a bit out of control at the time. I've read many stories about girls who said they were drunk around their friend's boyfriend and when they were alone, they got raped but she was too drunk to push him off or scream for help. Another twist on the same situation is getting raped/molested while drunk but being so out of it that she couldn't remember for sure if it actually happened or if it was just her drunken state feeding her false memories. These concepts terrify me. This is why I don't get drunk. But if I ever did, this is why I'd never get drunk in public. I wouldn't even like to get drunk at a friend or relative's place. I don't like the idea of not knowing where I am or not being certain that I'll make it back home tonight or not remembering what happened last night. I don't know why this isn't part of everyone else's M.O. My aim is always to be sober in public. This way, if the worst does come to the worst against all the odds, I'll have the physical and mental capacity to save myself and remember all the details to report to the police later. It breaks my heart to think of all those victims who try to report the crime but they never get justice because they were too drunk to remember what time it was, where it happened and what the attacker looked like. And of course, that they got raped in the first place because their drunken state prevented them from self defence.

It's a well known fact that rapists (especially date rapers) target people who look vulnerable. They're not going to go after the girl who's sober and drinking from a bottle. They'll go after the girl who's so drunk she can barely stand and drinking from a glass that she's not covering and is always abandoning it to get up and dance/go to the toilet. This is why, out of all the rapes that occur in clubs, you rarely ever hear rape stories from sober girls who kept their drink safe all night. It's the ones who were clearly vulnerable that get preyed upon. We might not be able to convince rapists not to rape but we can at least make it extremely difficult for them to achieve their aims as long as they're among us. Telling a girl to keep herself safe is just like every other security measure, it's not putting the blame on girls at all, it's just general safety measures, just like locking your doors. And honestly, I'd say the same for men. They're at risk too. Remember that, aside from rape, you can come to grief in a whole host of other ways when you're drunk. You can get robbed, murdered, walk into the path of an oncoming car, fall into a river and drown, collapse and die from hypothermia. Getting drunk in public is reckless to one's own safety in so many ways. It's madness not to warn people to protect themselves. This is just common sense.

You know, there are people who also know their limit with alcohol and can be tipsy or even drunk while still remembering everything and be able to give consent. I do get drunk occasionally and I have always been quite assertive if a guy was attempting at dancing/making moves that made me uncomfortable or trying to kiss me , whatever. So maybe that's your feeling and you want to be safe but it does not apply to anyone because not everyone react to alcohol the same. I never black out, I can actually remember everything in details when I drink or even smoke so I am not a fan of the oh well if you were drunk, too bad! Some people will push their limits and get themselves in horrible situations and hopefully they can learn to not do it again, and to this point I agree with what you say, but i think it would be great that we also focus on telling guys not to rape, that being drunk is not excuse for them to think they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Because there is also this mentality that you can use your drunkness as an excuse. Honestly it's lame. Also I feel it's taking a lot of energy to always see the world as a potential rape place, like seriously I have others things to care so if I always have to wonder, oh if I do that will I get rape, I won't have enough hours in a day and it kind of show how ****ed our society came to be.

[Evan Peters 10,738]

1 hour ago, TiphEret said:

You know there are people who also know their limit with alcohol and can yes be tipsy or even drunk while still remembering everything and be able to give consent. I do get drunk occasionally and I have always been quite assertive if a guy was attempting at dancing/making moves that made me uncomfortable or trying to kiss me , whatever. So maybe that's your feeling and you want to be safe but it does not apply to anyone because not everyone react to alcohol the same. I never black out, I can actually remember everything in details when I drink or even smoke so I am not a fan of the oh well if you were drunk, too bad! Some people will push their limits and get themselves in horrible situations and hopefully they can learn to not do it again but i think it would be great that we also focus on telling guys not to rape, that being drunk is not excuse for them to think they can do whatever they want and get away with it because there is also this mentality that you can use your drunkness as an excuse. Honestly it's lame. Also I feel it's taking a lot of energy to always see the world as a potential rape place, like seriously I have others things to care so if I always have to wonder, oh if I do that will I get rape, I won't have enough hours in a day and it kind of show how ****ed our society came to be.

right? i'm so sick of the fear mongering that has started sprouting up since early 2015 in concerns to rape. my worst fear isn't being raped. most people don't go outside and think "wonder if i'm gonna get raped." it's not some common thought that pops into people's head and i wish people (especially internet folk) would stop thinking as such. 

[TiphEret 1,320]

33 minutes ago, Evan Peters said:

right? i'm so sick of the fear mongering that has started sprouting up since early 2015 in concerns to rape. my worst fear isn't being raped. most people don't go outside and think "wonder if i'm gonna get raped." it's not some common thought that pops into people's head and i wish people (especially internet folk) would stop thinking as such. 

I guess if some have been victim of any kind of assault in the streets or whatever or know someone who have been maybe it influence them. personally i am too focused on where I heading to really think about that! Always rushing ahaha but i read an article lately saying that women always have to consider some itinary regarding how safe it is. It's kind of crazy! To think oh I can't stay late bec if i come back at 3 am someone could target me...it really stop your freedom of mouvement to have to consider that. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,813]

19 hours ago, TiphEret said:

You know, there are people who also know their limit with alcohol and can be tipsy or even drunk while still remembering everything and be able to give consent. I do get drunk occasionally and I have always been quite assertive if a guy was attempting at dancing/making moves that made me uncomfortable or trying to kiss me , whatever. So maybe that's your feeling and you want to be safe but it does not apply to anyone because not everyone react to alcohol the same. I never black out, I can actually remember everything in details when I drink or even smoke so I am not a fan of the oh well if you were drunk, too bad! Some people will push their limits and get themselves in horrible situations and hopefully they can learn to not do it again, and to this point I agree with what you say, but i think it would be great that we also focus on telling guys not to rape, that being drunk is not excuse for them to think they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Because there is also this mentality that you can use your drunkness as an excuse. Honestly it's lame. Also I feel it's taking a lot of energy to always see the world as a potential rape place, like seriously I have others things to care so if I always have to wonder, oh if I do that will I get rape, I won't have enough hours in a day and it kind of show how ****ed our society came to be.

Then that's not being completely drunk. I'm talking about being so drunk that your mental and physical function decreases. And it's not about saying "If you were drunk, too bad," it's about getting justice but at the same time realising that you're not invincible and that bad things can happen if you allow your senses to be weakened with alcohol. It sounds a bit crass to say it should be a learning experience when there's rape involved, but there's really not a better term we can use. The fact is that if you learn nothing from a bad experience, you're more likely to repeat it. If there really was no way that you have protected yourself better than you did, you were just unlucky. But if there was things you could've done, take these things into account and apply them next time. I think it can help a victim to recover better if they can assure themselves that there was nothing they were "at fault with" for lack of a better phrase. But if the victim made some bad choices that resulted in being raped, they drive themselves crazy with "what if's" like... "What if I wasn't drunk? What if I hadn't taken the shortcut down that dark alley? What if I hadn't gone home with a guy I didn't know?" When a victim starts to ponder on the things they did "wrong," it can have severe psychological effects that never go away. I would rather that every rape victim could get justice without having to blame themselves by listing the things they should've done differently. If you take precautions, you're less likely to be raped in the first place, but you're also less likely to blame yourself afterwards if it does happen. I don't support victim blaming, I just choose to go about it in a different way to a lot of people. And if you do it in a different way, people find this very hard to process and think you're being negative. Notice that no one ever claims that we're victim blaming children by telling them not to take candy from a stranger. Why? Because it's standard safety procedures that every child should learn, and for good reason. In fact, I'd say it was irresponsible not to teach children this very important lesson. So, why do we claim victim blaming when schools teach girls about not to get drunk in public or not to go home with someone they don't know? Why is that the lessons we learn as children no longer apply when we're adults? Instead of candy, it's a drink that a stranger's offering you. A surprising amount of people don't heed this childhood lesson when they're adults and it troubles me. Same with the "don't go home with a stranger" lesson.

Like I said, yes, we should teach boys not to rape but we have to remember that no matter what we teach them, some will still go out and do it. So, it's our duty to make sure the girls are equipped to protect themselves against the ones who choose not to listen. It's a shame that we have to make the world out to be a cruel place but sorry, I'm a realist. The world's never going to be perfect, there's too many of us to make it that way. So, we've got to focus on making it as close to perfect as we can, given the circumstances and to be realistic about things.

17 hours ago, TiphEret said:

I guess if some have been victim of any kind of assault in the streets or whatever or know someone who have been maybe it influence them. personally i am too focused on where I heading to really think about that! Always rushing ahaha but i read an article lately saying that women always have to consider some itinary regarding how safe it is. It's kind of crazy! To think oh I can't stay late bec if i come back at 3 am someone could target me...it really stop your freedom of mouvement to have to consider that. 

It really is just part of being a woman in this world. I've been taking precautions to protect myself when out alone for years and I certainly was never scared into believing something bad would happen to me. I've just always been a realist and believer in common sense and therefore think that you can be the unlucky one at any time when you least expect it. When I went to university, it was the first time I had been out my own for long periods in my entire life and going home alone at night and I had to ensure my safety. I only walked in well-lit areas (and was always looking over my shoulder in the winter). I would assess who was in the bus stop and stand outside if I detected that someone was shady. I never walked along with a phone or headphones in case someone would be tempted to rob me or catch me off-guard. If I had to stand on my own outside and wait for someone, I always made sure to stand "demurely" and occasionally pretend to be talking on my phone so it looked like I was confident and due to meet someone soon in case anyone thought I was a prostitute or some sort of easy target. But I never did any of these things thinking: "Might get raped." It's just a natural reaction, a reflex. It's sad that this is our lives as women, but it's true. In the book, Everyday Sexism, by Laura Bates, she discusses street harassment and puts in stories from other women. A shocking amount of them say they get shouted at, grabbed, followed etc. on an almost daily basis, so finding ways to secure their safety was so natural that they didn't even think about it anymore. And that it's hard to imagine men ever having to be this worried. But again, it's the world we live in. The government can't ensure everyone's safety and some places are just going to be dangerous no matter what, so we have to take care of ourselves because no one else will.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I agree that the first most important thing for a rape victim is to get help.  If not a physical assault then psychological trauma assistance.  

Here lies one way to determine whether or not the accuser is legit or malicious because a rape victim most certainly needs help.

[StarstruckIllusion 52,455]

They're a bunch of straight guys. What else do you expect other than pure stupidity? 

[PunkTheFunk 124,400]

2 minutes ago, ROARyals said:

They're a bunch of straight guys. What else do you expect other than pure stupidity? 

That's heterophobia sweetie I'm calling the cops

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

4 minutes ago, ROARyals said:

They're a bunch of straight guys. What else do you expect other than pure stupidity? 

Straight bashing isn't any more acceptable than ....

[PopBitch 1,218]

On 2/20/2016 at 1:07 PM, Dominic Marc said:

One of the images is being shared on Facebook and it's so out of context.  

She is saying we should help the victim first before we even consider the evidence.  

You can't do that.  If a rape occurred, they have to begin an investigation quickly before potential evidence is destroyed, deleted by the assailant and/or assailants and/or their friends and at the crime scene.  That doesn't mean the alleged rape victim isn't getting help also.  I think once they are taken to the hospital for rape kit testing a rape counselor is also dispatched to be with the alleged rape victim.

[Wenli 826]

4 minutes ago, ROARyals said:

They're a bunch of straight guys. What else do you expect other than pure stupidity? 

There are exceptions.

Spoiler

Like me.

 

[Auro 1,829]

On 2/20/2016 at 0:11 PM, Church said:

How are people not understanding what she is saying? She is clear in the way she speaks and she expressed the idea eloquently. Also, why are people not agreeing with her?

You can easily take something out of context and completely change the meaning, they have a quote like "I don't want to live in a country where the government decides whether or not you were raped" 

[Whispering 18,865]

On February 22, 2016 at 8:41 PM, TiphEret said:

I guess if some have been victim of any kind of assault in the streets or whatever or know someone who have been maybe it influence them. personally i am too focused on where I heading to really think about that! Always rushing ahaha but i read an article lately saying that women always have to consider some itinary regarding how safe it is. It's kind of crazy! To think oh I can't stay late bec if i come back at 3 am someone could target me...it really stop your freedom of mouvement to have to consider that. 

Exactly! It's a lot to think about and consider at all times. The people I know and know of who have been a victim of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault weren't wearing a short skirt or pass out drunk or alone on a dark street. The only way to protect yourself at all times is to have your dad or brother (given that they aren't molesters) escort you during every second of your life. No going out with friends, going to a party, going to a restroom unaccompanied, going shopping by yourself, going for a walk or run in your neighborhood, having a repairman come to your house, dating...at all...ever! Who can live that kind of life? Who wants to? 

I found this comment to perfectly sum up what we've been discussing here:

Assault is still a crime, even if the victim could've done something to avoid it. Taking precautions to lower risk is a good idea, but the tradeoff between lowering risk and inconveniencing/restricting yourself is a personal decision, and it should have no bearing on who we blame when a crime occurs.