Lady Gaga "Never give up"

[George 363]

6 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

 I agree with you and I never said that Gaga doesn't have the right to say, "never give up". I actually said I like it when she motivates us. Gaga has had her struggles like anyone else who is successful. All I am saying is that Gaga has had opportunities, particularly as a child, that many of us can only dream of.

She had many opportunities but also many set-backs that most people only have nightmares of. She deals with depression, drug addiction, trauma. Very bad things that happened back in the day when she was dancing in a bikini in underground bars for some coins. You may have all the chances in the world, but after all those things (even with only of them), its twice as hard to leave your bed in the morning.

I kinda agree with your point that famous people received the touch of gold and good luck that many of us wont ever receive. But we also don't know the journey and the weight they carry

When they say "never give up", I take it as "never give up because something magical and great will come of your hard work" more than "never give up and your dreams will become 100% true and you will be successful like me"

[Katie14 4,828]

1 minute ago, Dominic Marc said:

'Never give up' is such a generic quote that I can't take it seriously. 

She has better pieces of advice 'if you don't have any shadows,  you're not standing in the light'.  

That's actually not her quote.

[mic 1,415]

23 minutes ago, NewYorkCity said:

What? It is eassy to say once you have made it?

Gaga had chances, but she also lived situations where she could have gave up. And she never did.

She played hundreds of times in NYC bars, and people told her she wasn't what they were looking for. Did she give up? No, she kept fighting. She was fired from deft jam. Her music was rejected. She wrote tons of demos, and the industry said no. Did she give up? No, she keept writting until she came up with just dance. No one would play just dance on the radio. Did she give up? No, she went to clubs, ikea parkings, hundreds of citys, and then, almost a year later, the song cimbled. She had a couple of good years. Then the whole world turned their back on her. Did she give up? No, she re-built her image, and worked hard to get where she is today.

She has the right to tell that.

An advice is based on your own experience. She did never give up. She can say that to everyone.

I get what you mean, but if I had happy family waiting for me in a Manhattan I'd also not be scared to undertake these challenges. Her parents told her she had one year to make it, otherwise she had to go back to school. She already got in to university of New York at this point so she was secure.

my family used to be very rich and I know how it feels, it feels like world is open and waits for you and you can undertake any challenge because you feel secure. Rich kids were always the most hardworking in my school for example.

Now my family's finances crumbled, and very bad things resulted because of it. You know it's not that easy to face challenge when you have burden like that. i just don't feel free anymore.

Gaga is my fave, but I'll never compare myself to her because it's depressing. We live in capitalist world and everything is about money let's face it. I will never give up but as it appears it's not everything.

[Dominic 11,922]

1 minute ago, Katie14 said:

That's actually not her quote.

Neither is the 'Never Give Up' quote but I thought we were discussing advice that she gives? 

[AlexanderLevi2 5,849]

I guess it depends on how people define success. Some people have the goal to create a loving and successful family. Again this is based off of all three of your points. The never give up mantra can be applied to everyone. Not everyone aspires to be a world famous pop star or wildly rich. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue?

Most people who have reached their goals tell this to people who are trying to achieve their dreams/goals. The LGBT community even has the "It'll get better" campaign that revolves around this mantra. Are those that have accepting families but still have hard times not allowed to tell people not to give up? Because one factor was luck?

I think those who have luck/opportunities need to be humble and can use the never give up mantra while also giving others opportunities. Which I think Gaga does well.

[Katie14 4,828]

1 minute ago, mic said:

I get what you mean, but if I had happy family waiting for me in a Manhattan I'd also not be scared to undertake these challenges. Her parents told her she had one year to make it, otherwise she had to go back to school. She already got in to university of New York at this point so she was secure.

my family used to be very rich and I know how it feels, it feels like world is open and waits for you and you can undertake any challenge because you feel secure. Rich kids were always the most hardworking in my school for example.

Now my family's finances crumbled, parents are chased by bailiffs, there's problem of alcoholism and my brother had suicide attempt. You know it's not that easy to face challenge when you have burden like that. i just don't feel free anymore.

Gaga is my fave, but I'll never compare myself to her because it's depressing. We live in capitalist world and everything is about money let's face it. I will never give up but as it appears it's not everything.

Exactly. I get that moving the LES on her own was probably scary, but in realty she really didn't have much to lose. If she couldn't get signed she would have just went back to school and would have been a year behind, not a big deal.

Its unfortunate that money gives us the security to be able to take risks. For example, I want to pursue a career in the creative side of Advertising. its a competitive field and would probably be considered a risky career choice. But I am able to take a risk because I have been working for two years while living at home. I have the money to pay for the schooling I would need. If I was in debt from my undergrad degree there would be no way I would be able to pursue this career. I couldn't chance it.

Im sorry you had to go through your family issues by the way. I hope all is well with you.

[Serendipity 7,821]

the truth is that not everyone gets an opportunity to get what they want.

They may have passion, but without a chance their effort is valueless.

 

Chances are determiners of fate.

[Sakrai 4,759]

Yeah I think there are thousands of small details that play a part in the way you reach your goals. Gaga had a lot of things going for her (mainly a family that could pay for her education) just as she had things against her. She's not conventionally Hollywood pretty. Which I believe in this industry is something REALLY important. Gaga had to break into the industry by being quirky, weird, artsy, and just explode in everyone's face. And doing that brings about even more problems. Problems that exploded around ARTPOP, when you can't maintain this mysterious artsy image anymore because it's just too much. And then suddenly everyone turns against you.

These are things that you cannot prepare for. And Gaga had to find a way to overcome this, which she did through pure talent. This videos is a great example: 

Notice at the end how the woman says "That girl may be weird...", and that is what I find most incredible about Gaga. She managed to do that. She managed to make people say "That girl may be weird, BUT...". That BUT is the fruit of her hard work.

I guess my point is, having things going for you is never enough. It's always about your resilience. It's always about being the kind of person who sees the wall in front of them, and decides to climb it. Life will throw the strangest situations at you. Things that will make you want to quit all the time. So the only thing that will make you triumph in the end is resilience.

[Katie14 4,828]

19 minutes ago, AlexanderLevi2 said:

I guess it depends on how people define success. Some people have the goal to create a loving and successful family. Again this is based off of all three of your points. The never give up mantra can be applied to everyone. Not everyone aspires to be a world famous pop star or wildly rich. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue?

Most people who have reached their goals tell this to people who are trying to achieve their dreams/goals. The LGBT community even has the "It'll get better" campaign that revolves around this mantra. Are those that have accepting families but still have hard times not allowed to tell people not to give up? Because one factor was luck?

I think those who have luck/opportunities need to be humble and can use the never give up mantra while also giving others opportunities. Which I think Gaga does well.

My point is that even if someone has the work ethic to pursue their dreams, there are other factors that must work in your favor in order for success to actually happen.

For example; lets just say that my dream is to become an Architect. I love buildings and fawn over their designs. I have had this desire and passion since I was 5 and tried to learn as much as I can about Architecture from books and the internet. But, what if I live in a country that doesn't have any colleges with programs in Architecture and I can't effort to fly somewhere else? How would I ever be able to compete with a rich kid who grew up in NYC who had the opportunity to attend high school programs or camps for kids interested in Architecture and who got a degree in Architecture in college?

Or what if I want to become a dancer and have the passion, work ethic, and opportunity to take lessons for 3 hours per day from excellent teachers, but just wasn't born with flexibility and coordination? No matter how much I practice, dancing well just isn't possible for me because I wasn't born with the natural ability to dance.

 Passion and determination can only get you so far.

[Katie14 4,828]

36 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said:

Neither is the 'Never Give Up' quote but I thought we were discussing advice that she gives? 

Oh ok. Sorry. 

[AlexanderLevi2 5,849]

8 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

My point is that even if someone has the work ethic to pursue their dreams, there are other factors that must work in your favor in order for success to actually happen.

For example; lets just say that my dream is to become an Architect. I love buildings and fawn over their designs. I have had this desire and passion since I was 5 and tried to learn as much as I can about Architecture from books and the internet. But, what if I live in a country that doesn't have any colleges with programs in Architecture and I can't effort to fly somewhere else? How would I ever be able to compete with a rich kid who grew up in NYC who had the opportunity to attend high school programs or camps for kids interested in Architecture and who got a degree in Architecture in college?

Or what if I want to become a dancer and have the passion, work ethic, and opportunity to take lessons for 3 hours per day from excellent teachers, but just wasn't born with flexibility and coordination? No matter how much I practice, dancing well just isn't possible for me because I wasn't born with the natural ability to dance.

 Passion and determination can only get you so far.

Still not sure the argument... You have to work within your means. I'd love to be a singer but I'm not naturally talented. Am I going to cry and whine about it? No. But I'm still not going to give up my dream of being happy and successful in the job that i choose. Part of it is understanding that not everyone has the same opportunities and you have to change some things in life.

Just like Gaga originally wanted to be an actress but she fell back on becoming a singer.

[PunkTheFunk 124,530]

I do see what you're saying -- she grew up in a world of privilege and had access opportunities that others can only dream of. There could be a girl growing up in a broken, low-income home somewhere in America right now who's 10x more talented than Gaga and we would never know.

HOWEVER, Gaga is undeniably one of the biggest popstars ever and no matter how privileged you were growing up or how many opportunities you had access to, that's an extremely difficult task to accomplish.

[Katie14 4,828]

6 minutes ago, AlexanderLevi2 said:

Still not sure the argument... You have to work within your means. I'd love to be a singer but I'm not naturally talented. Am I going to cry and whine about it? No. But I'm still not going to give up my dream of being happy and successful in the job that i choose. Part of it is understanding that not everyone has the same opportunities and you have to change some things in life.

Just like Gaga originally wanted to be an actress but she fell back on becoming a singer.

My point is exactly what you wrote. You, like many others, cant pursue your number 1 dream becuase you werent born with singing talent or opportunities for lessons, ect. Im just saying there are many factors outside of our control that determine if we will ever be able to reach our dreams. We cant just relie on our passion, work ethic, and resilience. This doesnt mean you or anyone else wont be happy or succesful at something else unrelated to your initial dream. But dont you think you would be happiest if you could actually be succesful as a singer?

[AlexanderLevi2 5,849]

4 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

My point is exactly what you wrote. You, like many others, cant pursue your number 1 dream becuase you werent born with singing talent or opportunities for lessons, ect. Im just saying there are many factors outside of our control that determine if we will ever be able to reach our dreams. We cant just relie on our passion, work ethic, and resilience. This doesnt mean you or anyone else wont be happy or succesful at something else unrelated to your initial dream. But dont you think you would be happiest if you could actually be succesful as a singer?

No. Happiness is perspective. If I lived thinking the only way I'd be happiest is to be a singer... I would always feel regretful and let down. Why would you want to live like that? I live through my own happiness and other's happiness.

My best friends are talented and successful musicians, I'm not gifted like that BUT I'm happy for them. When Gaga says Never Give Up, she doesn't mean her specific journey but the journey you are on.

[djBuffoon 12,125]

There are many highly successful people who made it despite coming from poverty, or at least lesser means than Stefani Germanotta had growing up. And the point still holds true.

Of course, you must be self-aware enough to know if you're even good at what you want to do. I understand what you're saying, Gaga had cushioning to fall back on in case it didn't work out. But she didn't make it this far by having things handed to her.