Bebe 17,094 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Florian said: Oh come on, don't bring that card, it would have been the same with men. Two people sing the same song, it's natural to compare them and it won't change even if you don't like it. That's the first rule if you want to progress : compare and take the benefits of each. Of course you can, and that's exactly what should be done to be as fair as possible. When you judge something you only judge this thing and nothing else ! An example : someone just got out of jail and he's now suspected for a murder (in this example he is innocent). Will the judge bases his decision on the context or just on the facts and evidences? He will base it on the evidences even if he knows the man's past. Why? Because to be fair you only judge what the case is all about. In our case it's a song of ~2mn. No less, no more. I'm not that kind of man that compare women to cars but that's the only thing that comes to my mind Let's imagine that Ferrari has currently the best engines. If tomorrow a new start-up create an engine better (so they top the previous ones) than Ferrari's, will this startup be disrespectful to Ferrari because Ferrari legacy was to have the best engines for the past 20 years? I don't think. Yes you can compare the outfits but is the comparison relevant ? No. Why ? Because fashion evolves. An anthem is meant to be timeless just like classical music. You can sing it now, in 20years or 200years it will be the same. Singing an anthem is just about VOCAL SKILLS. So yes we can compare vocal skill because in 20 years people will still sing the anthem the same way. You think no man has ever sung the national anthem before? I mean please, men don't get compared nearly as often as women. Also this idea that a lot of people do something and that it won't change doesn't make it right, so I'm not even going to bother really addressing that. That jail comparison is a false comparison. You can't compare judging the merits of a performance with deducing whether somebody is guilty of a crime. I think when you are comparing performances, it's acceptable to bring up the legacy and reception of that performance. I don't care at all whether you like Whitney's performance or what performance you like better. I'd think you're crazy, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying "I actually really hated Whitney Houston's performance", I mean whatever I can't change your mind on that, it's taste. I'd sort of hope that person would at least recognise the legacy of that performance and the legacy of Whitney that is intertwined with the performance. Like "Oh Whitney Houston's performance is considered the golden standard, I never personally got the hype though I can't stand it.". When somebody says "This performance tops Whitney's performance" mere hours after the performance is finished then I think you really are ignoring everything that Whitney achieved with her performance. You're ignoring the cultural importance and history of that song. Not every 10+ old performance of the National Anthem gets dragged up when national tragedy strikes and flies to the top ten of the charts. The car example is also a false comparison. With an engine you can objectively measure an improved performance of the new engine. With two performances it's subjective. You can subjectively prefer one performance over the other, but you can't announce that the new performance tops the other, all you can say is that YOU think it's better. Fine if you don't like that example with the meat dress how about this: Someone compares a pretty dress with the meat dress, both made in the same year. Somebody says "This chick's pretty dress TOPS Gaga and her meat dress". What does that even mean? You can't say "Well taking aside the cultural implications of the meat dress, this dress tops it". You just can't do that. You can say you perfer the other dress but you can't rip it of context. In the same way you can't just ignore the cultural implications of Whitney's song. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,094 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, ShockPop said: Both examples you gave compared the 2 performances. You're talking utter nonsense. Oh please, read what I write before commenting dribble. Maybe check page 5 if you're if you're still lost on this whole "comparison" thing, or better yet read what I wrote in the exact same post I last quoted you in. "I've already said, there is a way you can compare performances. It's just that you can't ignore the cultural and historical significance behind Whitney's performance of the national anthem. That is a stand alone performance, it's the most iconic performance of her career." This isn't about saying you can't compare the performances, it's about saying you can't really compare what performance tops the other performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llbcherry 591 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Spoiler Spoiler Oops. Ignore.. @ShockPop WHAT DO yOu mEan by "DOPE VOICE?" (SORry, EXTrEME TEcHNIcAL DIFfICULTIes. I don't want to type like that.... and now it stopped. Ugh.. wth.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,094 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Let me clarify my point further as some people don't seem to understand. Björk's Pagan Poetry is my favourite music video of all time. I love that video, I don't think I could ever like a music video more than I like Pagan Poetry. I don't think I can say that Pagan Poetry tops or trumps Michael Jackson's Thriller. I prefer Pagan Poetry, but I don't think you can separate Thriller from the legacy and impact it had and continues to have. At the end of the day, my love for Pagan Poetry is subjective and I can't objectively say that it tops Thriller. You could compare the two and say, hell I think Pagan Poetry ranks up there with Thriller - but Thriller is stand alone. You can't really compare them in terms of which is the 'top' music video. In the same way Gaga's performance of the national anthem might be your favourite performance of the national anthem, you might even hate Whitney Houston's version. But I don't think it's reasonable to claim that Gaga's performance tops Whitney's performance because I don't think it's really possible to separate the legacy of Whitney and that performance with the performance itself. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to claim that Gaga's performance 'tops' Whitney's, her performance is in a completely different space it's an iconic, cultural moment and will forever be remembered as such. I think that Pagan Poetry can stand alongside Thriller as great music videos, I think that Gaga's performance can stand alongside Whitney's performance as great interpretations of the national anthem. I don't think it's reasonable to discuss what music video or performance "tops" the other though. It's just not something that I think is possible to be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity 7,821 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, Bebe said: Let me clarify my point further as some people don't seem to understand. Björk's Pagan Poetry is my favourite music video of all time. I love that video, I don't think I could ever like a music video more than I like Pagan Poetry. I don't think I can say that Pagan Poetry tops or trumps Michael Jackson's Thriller. I prefer Pagan Poetry, but I don't think you can separate Thriller from the legacy and impact it had and continues to have. At the end of the day, my love for Pagan Poetry is subjective and I can't objectively say that it tops Thriller. You could compare the two and say, hell I think Pagan Poetry ranks up there with Thriller - but Thriller is stand alone. You can't really compare them in terms of which is the 'top' music video. In the same way Gaga's performance of the national anthem might be your favourite performance of the national anthem, you might even hate Whitney Houston's version. But I don't think it's reasonable to claim that Gaga's performance tops Whitney's performance because I don't think it's really possible to separate the legacy of Whitney and that performance with the performance itself. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to claim that Gaga's performance 'tops' Whitney's, her performance is in a completely different space it's an iconic, cultural moment and will forever be remembered as such. I think that Pagan Poetry can stand alongside Thriller as great music videos, I think that Gaga's performance can stand alongside Whitney's performance as great interpretations of the national anthem. I don't think it's reasonable to discuss what music video or performance "tops" the other though. It's just not something that I think is possible to be done. 28 minutes ago, llbcherry said: (SORry, EXTrEME TEcHNIcAL DIFfICULTIes. I don't want to type like that.... and now it stopped. Ugh.. wth.) I'm outta likes See talent here-->http://bit.ly/2eqeUxK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockPop 7,747 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, llbcherry said: (I cant get rid of that, my tablet is being weird, sorry.) OK!! Well that was a fun read..... Seems like 8 pages of fighting between: "Gaga topped Whitney's performance" vs. "In mhy opinion, Gaga topped Whitney's performance." Enigma did state, or imply that it was all his (?) opinion. Enigma, in the future, just put "in my opinion" in front of every Gaga thought you have.. it would dampen a lot of the arguing. I think Gaga's performance stands alongside the best. In my opinion (see?), it is hard to say it was better than Whitney. If it is true that Whitney's was a studio recording, then I would say fairly, in my opinion, that Gaga sang the best LIVE Super Bowl anthem. Gaga was amazing, to me, it was vocally perfect. Whitney's voice, her belting, her high head voice notes, are perhaps impossible to "top,." And it may be the best version overall. As far as LIVE, I say Gaga is the best. Any receipts for Whitney using studio recording? Anyway, I am only focusing on the performance, not any cultural impact... in my opinion, you can't beat Whitney overall for her version... Gaga would be close runner-up. However, for live vocals only (not counting small broadcast delay), Gaga is the best, to me! She really did such a stellar, incredible job. I don't think she could do any better. I knew she would deliver, but boy oh boy, she exceeded my expectations, and probably a lot of the GP's expectations, too. 2016, the year of Gaga domination. P.s. ShockPop, what is "dope voice?" (I cant quote you, it's all messed up!) 1. Nobody should have to say "in my opinion" ever. What else are they doing? Expressing the opinion of Jesus? 2. Dope voice is the vocal style used in "Dope" a low nasal vibrato that can sound on occasion like a bad opera-like impersonation. She used it in parts but I think it was due to nerves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockPop 7,747 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Bebe said: Oh please, read what I write before commenting dribble. Maybe check page 5 if you're if you're still lost on this whole "comparison" thing, or better yet read what I wrote in the exact same post I last quoted you in. "I've already said, there is a way you can compare performances. It's just that you can't ignore the cultural and historical significance behind Whitney's performance of the national anthem. That is a stand alone performance, it's the most iconic performance of her career." This isn't about saying you can't compare the performances, it's about saying you can't really compare what performance tops the other performance. Define "tops" because in the UK it literally means "is better than". Which Gagas singing was better than Whitney silently moving her mouth. And who gives a damn about all the surrounding bull? Let's look at them objectively rather than taking into account the rubbish surrounding them. Point still stands that Gaga sang and Whitney didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klou 2,414 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I re-watched Whitney's gain after Gaga and Whitney's is still better. Most people don't know Whitney's wasn't live, though, and there is so much more pressure when singing it live, so that makes Gaga's more impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie14 4,828 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Its all subjective really and nobody is being disrespectful for stating their opinion. Gaga did amazingly well and i can understand why some people like her version better. I happen to think Whitney just has a naturally better voice than Gaga. Whitney's voice sounded more clear and effortless. To me, Gaga sounded a little thinned out and strained as she hit the high notes. Just my opinion, and trust me i love Gaga's version. I listed to it like 10 times already today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestFriend 646 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 On Facebook and on Youtube, people are ripping to shreds every post/article that makes fun of Gaga. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane_c 480 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Singing LIVE is better than lip syncing, especially when you sound just as good. Gaga wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,265 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Whitney and Gaga did it so differently... and yet they both did it perfectly (live vocals notwithstanding). Like, come on. They are both good and neither of them is better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brizoda 3,855 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Gaga's rendition was pre-recorded or entirely live? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy McQueen 4,484 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, brizoda said: Gaga's rendition was pre-recorded or entirely live? Entirely live, but it aired about 5 minutes later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark 7,098 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 6 hours ago, Clean said: the OP's level of delusion is slightly concerning he can't seem to distinguish an opinion from a fact I always stated that this was my OPINION right from the beginning . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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