Elton John Is Wrong. ARTPOP Is Not a Bad Album

[Quark 7,098]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

But opinions can't be wrong. It's really that simple. You just disagree with him, that's what you really mean to say.

Except they can. The reason why we disagree with opinions in the first place, is because we think some opinions are wrong or not true.

[Haroon 49,685]

19 hours ago, FATCAT said:

ARTPOP is the bartholomew of Gaga's albums. It has a special place in our hearts, and it shares a beauty difficult to see on the surface, especially compared to her other albums. But if ARTPOP came up to me in a dark alley, I'd still be scared and worried for my safety.

 

10 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

And just like Bartholomew, ARTPOP's story was unfinished and everyone forgot about it after a while and ignored it, including Gaga. We never got to see its full potential. 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL YOU TWO OMG I can't believe I just read this

 ->  ->  ->  

[Harry 26,836]

1 minute ago, Enigma said:

Except they can. The reason why we disagree with opinions in the first place, is because we think some opinions are wrong or not true.

Okay well I'm going to just put this down as a matter of semantics because I don't want to believe that you're as stupid as you're coming across right now.

The entire point of an opinion is that it's neither wrong or right Down to taste, subjective, your own view etc. Your view is not the right one just because you insist it is. Especially with your vapid reasons justifying why it's a good album in the OP. You make it sound bad and I actually like the album

[FGGrayson 9,670]

Drag that bitch!

[Haroon 49,685]

14 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Except they can. The reason why we disagree with opinions in the first place, is because we think some opinions are wrong or not true.

Disagreeing with an opinion is different to saying it's wrong

There's no actual right or wrong when it comes to opinions because it depends which of the multiple sides you're on, it's subjective 

edit: Whoops a post above basically covered it all and better, how @Harryductive of me  

[Quark 7,098]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Okay well I'm going to just put this down as a matter of semantics because I don't want to believe that you're as stupid as you're coming across right now.

The entire point of an opinion is that it's neither wrong or right Down to taste, subjective, your own view etc. Your view is not the right one just because you insist it is. Especially with your vapid reasons justifying why it's a good album in the OP. You make it sound bad and I actually like the album

But it is obvious to me that he is saying that ARTPOP is not a good album either because of his taste in music or because the wave of negativity it had during its time. He never said anything objective as to why he thought the music itself was bad. And people's tastes are not always based on quality.

[Harry 26,836]

 

1 minute ago, Enigma said:

But it is obvious to me that he is saying that ARTPOP is not a good album either because of his taste in music or because the wave of negativity it had during its time. He never said anything objective as to why he though the music itself was bad. And people's tastes are not always based on quality.

Well bearing in mind the fact that Elton John is a music icon and he's extremely close with Gaga, he obviously has nothing to gain from saying ARTPOP isn't good. He's obviously just being honest. He doesn't need to justify a passing comment in an interview with a lengthy explanation, that's just his opinion. And it's totally fine. You're just focusing too much on the negative. He's praising her future work, why not spend as much time focusing on that?

[Quark 7,098]

3 minutes ago, Haroon said:

Disagreeing with an opinion is different to saying it's wrong

There's no actual right or wrong when it comes to opinions because it depends which of the multiple sides you're on, it's subjective 

But everyone has there own definition of what is right or wrong.

[giskardsb 12,565]

7 minutes ago, Haroon said:

Disagreeing with an opinion is different to saying it's wrong

There's no actual right or wrong when it comes to opinions because it depends which of the multiple sides you're on, it's subjective 

this opinion is wrong.   Plenty of people had the opinion that the sun orbited the earth while stuck to a literal "celestial sphere".  Some opinions are subjective, some are not.  The kind of music that you like personally, is of course completely subjective.  

Just clarifying.

[Harry 26,836]

 

4 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

this opinion is wrong.   Plenty of people had the opinion that the sun orbited the earth.  Some opinions are subjective, some are not.  What makes music that you like personally, is of course completely subjective.  

Just clarifying.

That's an absurd comparison and you know it is. Saying the sun orbited the earth is not an opinion, that's a statement. Judging a piece of music, art, film, literature etc is subjective because everyone values each of the many different variables that come into play differently. Calling out a fact like whether the sun orbits the earth or not, or something of that nature, is either wrong or right. Saying "x is a good song" is not as simple as that.

It's just banal that people genuinely think this way  If what you're saying is right, what constitutes a "good" album? Who decides it? How do you prove that it is?

[Quark 7,098]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Well bearing in mind the fact that Elton John is a music icon and he's extremely close with Gaga, he obviously has nothing to gain from saying ARTPOP isn't good. He's obviously just being honest. He doesn't need to justify a passing comment in an interview with a lengthy explanation, that's just his opinion. And it's totally fine. You're just focusing too much on the negative. He's praising her future work, why not spend as much time focusing on that?

But the reason why Elton is wrong is because he is implying ARTPOP is bad because of how Gaga handled the situation, and because of the type of music she decided to make. I don't like many country songs but I can acknowledge that many of the songs I dislike is the result of my taste and not the quality of the songs.

[Haroon 49,685]

9 minutes ago, Enigma said:

But everyone has there own definition of what is right or wrong.

Exactly! Hence nobody can be right or wrong  

9 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

this opinion is wrong.   Plenty of people had the opinion that the sun orbited the earth.

Well opinions can be proven wrong by facts with stuff backing them up, but not by other opinions  My point is that when you have people discussing personal thoughts and feelings and stuff it can't be shut down by "you're wrong!", maybe in the future if we have a way to measure music and how good/bad an album is (not via critics who go by opinion just as we do in our current time period) then we'll be able to do such a thing - but until music and feelings are quantifiable or measurable in some capacity then I don't think we can  

I mean you can go back and forth with "I'm right and you're wrong" but it's just a continuous never ending cycle  

[Harry 26,836]

 

1 minute ago, Enigma said:

But the reason why Elton is wrong is because he is implying ARTPOP is bad because of how Gaga handled the situation, and because of the type of music she decided to make. I don't like many country songs but I can acknowledge that many of the songs I dislike is the result of my taste and not the quality of the songs.

Is that what he said though? I didn't get that at all. I think you're reading too much into a comment that took up less than a sentence. All he said was quite simply "it was not a good album". Where is the implication regarding her handling/the type of music in that? I really think he just didn't enjoy the majority of the songs. Why are you so unable to cope with that? If you like it then go put it on. One person disliking it shouldn't take up this much of your time.

[Quark 7,098]

1 minute ago, Haroon said:

Exactly! Hence nobody can be right or wrong  

Well opinions can be proven wrong by facts with stuff backing them up, but not by other opinions  My point is that when you have people discussing personal thoughts and feelings and stuff it can't be shut down by "you're wrong!", maybe in the future if we have a way to measure music and how good/bad an album is (not via critics who go by opinion just as we do in our current time period) then we'll be able to do such a thing - but until music and feelings are quantifiable I don't think we can  

One thing is for sure, I don't disagree with Elton because I think he is right. So in my view he is wrong and I mentioned things that I believe are facts about that album that support my view.

[Quark 7,098]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Is that what he said though? I didn't get that at all. I think you're reading too much into a comment that took up less than a sentence. All he said was quite simply "it was not a good album". Where is the implication regarding her handling/the type of music in that? I really think he just didn't enjoy the majority of the songs. Why are you so unable to cope with that? If you like it then go put it on. One person disliking it shouldn't take up this much of your time.

“She made some bad career decisions,” he admits. “ARTPOP was not a good idea.