Finland considering giving citizens Basic Income - 800 euro a month

[monstereo 1,232]

FAQ about Basic Income (What is it?): https://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index

 

*The Finnish government is getting serious about the idea of a national basic income. It has commissioned KELA, the national social insurance provider, to study the concept, calculate the costs, and run an experiment in 2017 to judge the feasibility of rolling it out across the country. If, eventually, the government were to approve of such a plan, Finland could scrap all existing benefits and instead hand out a monthly stipend to everyone. According to some reports, the monthly payment could be €800 ($870).

Whereas several Dutch cities will introduce basic income next year and Switzerland is holding a referendum on the subject, there is strongest political and public support for the idea in Finland.

A poll commissioned by KELA showed that 69% support (link in Finnish) a basic income plan. Prime minister Juha Sipilä is in favor of the idea and he’s backed by most of the major political parties. “For me, a basic income means simplifying the social security system,” he says.

But for those outside Finland, the plan raises two obvious questions: Why is this a good idea, and how will it work?

It may sound counterintuitive, but the proposal is meant to tackle unemployment. Finland’s unemployment rate is at a 15-year high and a basic income would allow people to take on low-paying jobs without personal cost. At the moment, a temporary job results in lower welfare benefits, which can lead to an overall drop in income.

Previous experiments have shown that universal basic income can have a positive effect. Everyone in the Canadian town of Dauphin was given a stipend from 1974 to 1979, and though there was a drop in working hours, this was mainly because men spent more time in school and women took longer maternity leaves. Meanwhile, when thousands of unemployed people in Uganda were given unsupervised grants of twice their monthly income, working hours increased by 17% and earnings increased by 38%.*

 

http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/

 

[Didymus 34,380]

Only 800.. I heard the more general plan is 2000 a month.

Anyway, I need this to happen in my lifetime omg. It's amazing.

[Sudarshana 581]

21 minutes ago, monstereo said:

It may sound counterintuitive, but the proposal is meant to tackle unemployment. Finland’s unemployment rate is at a 15-year high and a basic income would allow people to take on low-paying jobs without personal cost.

I don't get it. Why would you take a low-paying job if you get €800 for doing nothing? Sounds like a lot of money. I earn €500 a month, and I know that Finland is much more expensive than Russia, but wouldn't it be enough to live for €800 a month even there?

[Parsakaali 268]

2 minutes ago, Sudarshana said:

I don't get it. Why would you take a low-paying job if you get €800 for doing nothing?

Because you'd still get the 800€ + the extra from the job. Whereas now without this system,  if you took some part time low paying job you would actually make less money than you would staying home doing nothing, since having a job reduces the benefits you would get from the goverment.

[monstereo 1,232]

6 minutes ago, Sudarshana said:

I don't get it. Why would you take a low-paying job if you get €800 for doing nothing? Sounds like a lot of money. I earn €500 a month, and I know that Finland is much more expensive than Russia, but wouldn't it be enough to live for €800 a month even there?

I recommend reading the FAQ: https://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index

Eliminates the "unemployment trap". Under current systems, when someone gets a job they lose most of their welfare payments. This means they can go from not working at all to working a full week without significantly increasing their income. This is a disincentive to work. Under basic income, when people got a job they would retain the same basic income payment, with their salary added to it, so the disincentive no longer exists.

[Sudarshana 581]

Just now, Parsakaali said:

Because you'd still get the 800€+ the extra from the job. Whereas now without this system,  if you took some part time low paying job you would actually make less money than you would staying home doing nothing, since having a job reduces the benefits you would get from the goverment.

Yeah, I got this, but 800€ is a big sum, and if you don't want to work, wouldn't it discourage you from getting a job even more?

[Sudarshana 581]

1 minute ago, monstereo said:

I recommend reading the FAQ: https://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index

Eliminates the "unemployment trap". Under current systems, when someone gets a job they lose most of their welfare payments. This means they can go from not working at all to working a full week without significantly increasing their income. This is a disincentive to work. Under basic income, when people got a job they would retain the same basic income payment, with their salary added to it, so the disincentive no longer exists.

Thanks. Yes, "unemployment trap" sounds ridiculous, but wouldn't eliminating welfare altogether be a better solution to cure unemployment? If I got 800€ a month, I wouldn't work a day for my whole life 

[Didymus 34,380]

4 minutes ago, Sudarshana said:

Yeah, I got this, but 800€ is a big sum, and if you don't want to work, wouldn't it discourage you from getting a job even more?

Experiments show that work productivity increases, actually.

[Sudarshana 581]

Just now, Didymus said:

Experiments show that work productivity increases, actually.

OK, I hope it works then.

I personally prefer the system of Singapore with no welfare and unemployment rate of 2.0 percent in the September quarter of 2015 (plus it's the easiest place to do business).

[monstereo 1,232]

19 minutes ago, Sudarshana said:

19 minutes ago, Sudarshana said:

Yeah, I got this, but 800€ is a big sum, and if you don't want to work, wouldn't it discourage you from getting a job even more?

 

In Finland 800 euro is just enough to pay for basic needs. As for discouraging people from working, people are still going to want to do things like shopping/movies/restaurants/traveling/concerts/videogames, etc, etc. There's very few people that are just going to sit and do nothing all day for the rest of their lives and be content with just having a house and basic food. Instead of working for survival, people would actually get the opportunity to do what they love and work toward it, instead of being forced to take any job that will pay the bills. For instance, the many artists (painters/dancers/singers,etc) in the world that can't focus on their craft and are forced to get desk jobs and do something they don't care about. And lets not act like the majority of current jobs are needed or necessary. (most are corporate work designed to make a select few people rich)

We need to eliminate the whole "work for survival" mentality that keeps people in fear, makes them depressed, suicidal, stressed, etc. Basic Income IS the future IMO, especially when robots really start taking over human jobs (which we should be EMBRACING, not scared of)

[Azor Ahai 18,861]

...and in Greece basic income for actually working full time is 650 euros.

[monstereo 1,232]

7 minutes ago, Azor Ahai said:

...and in Greece basic income for actually working full time is 650 euros.

Greece doesn't have a basic income.

Guaranteed Minimum Income =/= Basic Income

[Azor Ahai 18,861]

Just now, monstereo said:

Greece doesn't have a basic income.

Guaranteed Minimum Income =/= Basic Income

English is my second language, excuse my mistakes.

[Sudarshana 581]

1 minute ago, monstereo said:

There's very few people that are just going to sit and do nothing all day for the rest of their lives and be content with just having a house and basic food.

A lot of immigrants from poor countries will find life in Finland for 800€ a month a real paradise comparing to their homelands, especially since finding a job for them is harder (you need to learn the language and adapt to the new culture). Unemployment among immigrants in Europe is a huge problem and I don't think that giving them even more money for doing nothing will help.

3 minutes ago, monstereo said:

We need to eliminate the whole "work for survival" mentality that keeps people in fear, makes them depressed, suicidal, stressed, etc.

I don't actually know what causes more suicides — "work for survival" or idleness.

[monstereo 1,232]

1 minute ago, Sudarshana said:

A lot of immigrants from poor countries will find life in Finland for 800€ a month a real paradise comparing to their homelands, especially since finding a job for them is harder (you need to learn the language and adapt to the new culture). Unemployment among immigrants in Europe is a huge problem and I don't think that giving them even more money for doing nothing will help.

I don't actually know what causes more suicides — "work for survival" or idleness.

I agree that once such a system comes into place, they will see a **** ton of people trying to get into the country. I think there will be MAJOR immigration restrictions once that time comes.

As for which causes more suicidal - most depression comes from money IMO. Financial struggles, debt, bills, being stuck in a dead-end job that you hate, unemployment,  etc, etc.