The -now lost- Political Gaga + her Radical Art

[JackTheTripper 866]

its really bad song satiric or not, .................can i just say i love this topis and this discussion you guys, its verry refreshing and stimulating- which is rare for me to say that on GGD

[PartySick 160,933]

1 minute ago, Alex C said:

I hope you're right. I do take things very seriously in life, and especially art. You can imagine my psyche!

I just can't take a song from such a legendary artist like gaga as "not-important". Each lyric, each song in her album is a carefully designed building block.

Oh I feel you. I can sit for hours analyzing every lyric and sound (ask anyone who's heard my self meaning for Sexxx Dreams )

I figured that line was in the same category as the rest of the verse. Runway models puking, calling herself blonde, skinny, rich, and a bitch, talking about fabrics, and about asking gay friends for advice in the most stereotypical way. It's all just fun, satirical, nonsense and the real meat of that song is in its chorus

As far as everything else in the OP, I just chalk it all up to her being a generally smart and caring person but at the end of the day she is an artist, not a politician. We can't expect her to be on the up-and-up about all the world's events and relationships and we can't expect her to stay silent when something bothers her, even if she is wrong or is perpetuating some kind of favoritism (like in the case of the Paris attacks). She is only human, after all. 

However, if she just had @Didymus join her in a new "Politic Haus" then she'd be perfect.

[Didymus 34,380]

5 minutes ago, Alex C said:

Thank you for this mature and analytical reply

Regarding your opinion on the political discourse in BTW, the only thing I have to say is that I agree and disagree with you, simultaneously: Your points are all valid. However we should take into the equation, the context of when BTW (the single) dropped: Absolutely no pop artist had ever even said the words "lesbian, transgender" in their hit songs / first singles.

Which takes me to my 2nd point: Of course there are artist who are/were at the time, much, MUCH more radical. But here, we are talking about a smart "meta-pop girl", masquerading as "just a pop chick", which I think took large cojones in order to write all that stuff and produce such aesthetics. Especially after ONLY 2 ALBUMS! It's almost like.... how dare she?

Maybe I'm giving her a free pass because I think that pop culture in America is so conservative, that I see U.S. artists' works under a veeeeery different microscope than -let's say- independent european singers/songwriters like me.

Again, excuse my english - I am greek.

I agree about the song BTW. The lyrics were ballsy and she was absolutely eloquent about (some of) the backlash she received: saying that the fact that she was criticized for being so direct about things was a symptom of the disease she wanted to take on.

And I get what you mean with the meta-pop girl but my whole opinion spins around my observation that she stopped trying to be that smart meta-pop girl when the BTW era started. She broke the fourth wall indeed, repeating every five seconds that she did everything for her fans and that she wanted to empower them and empower herself through their bravery (which I think is still a very confused message since you could easily interpret it as some kind of grotesque form of exploded, and profitable in a one-way-street direction, self-therapy). She gave up something that she had sworn to do during TF: to never let people think they know/understand her. During BTW she gave that up 100% and claimed that she and her fanbase finally understood each other. That was a major shift in the way she spoke about herself and her career and I think it needs to be accounted for.

I don't know much about American pop culture, I live in Europe so maybe it's indeed why I'm not easily impressed by what she does, but I don't think it should matter per se. Her most daring behavior and statements, in my opinion, come from TF so if she was able to survive that and drive it home to the bank, I don't see why we should interpret other era's as her being so radical that audiences left her - I always maintained that she alienated a broader audience because she herself put "Lady Gaga" in a box and instead of being radical and provoking, she actually became predictable. That's a very different thing.

Anyway, I love to be able to talk about it in this way Thanks for making the thread.

[JackTheTripper 866]

Well about her being biast to Paris attack-she is American, so if she says the truth- which is that NATO  and America startedthe conflict in the middle east and now criminalizing people from the war that they stated-she would be slaughtered back home, and she was aware of that- you know the tragedy in Paris-that is happpenning every day in the middle east- but you wont hear that in the media.

 

[Didymus 34,380]

4 minutes ago, PartySick said:

As far as everything else in the OP, I just chalk it all up to her being a generally smart and caring person but at the end of the day she is an artist, not a politician. We can't expect her to be on the up-and-up about all the world's events and relationships and we can't expect her to stay silent when something bothers her, even if she is wrong or is perpetuating some kind of favoritism (like in the case of the Paris attacks). She is only human, after all. 

I actually agree 100%. I'm only tougher on her because of what she says/said about herself, incl. that she wanted to be politically active and use her voice in a way that will impact generations. I just grow bitter when she says that the night before she performs the most bland and simultaneously the most offensive performance of Lennon's Imagine at the European Games

When she makes other statements like: "I want you to remember how UNCOMFORTABLE I made the world" I just can't help but cringe. She doesn't need that. And it undermines her own statements and actions. So it's only because she claims to be doing so much that I hold her to a very high standard, not because I think she should deliver everything I want, but because I don't like it when people claim to be doing something they're really not investing in. That's all for me.

7 minutes ago, PartySick said:

 However, if she just had @Didymus join her in a new "Politic Haus" then she'd be perfect.

[JackTheTripper 866]

More than anything her message about tolearnce and unity among people- regardless of politics and religion is what meakes me proud of her, and she was alaway promoting kindness-bouth personally and profesionally

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

30 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I still don't know if we should regard everything that happened as strategy or if things actually fell apart (I suspect that her creative team leaving her made a huge impact, in a bad way) but all I know is that Gaga is the definition of ambivalence and has made some major faux pas in the context of this theme (ex. her intentional ignoring and misrepresenting of the violence in the Israel/Palestine conflict, performing as some Russian Eurovision act in Azerbaijan, vapidly contributing to the anti-Russia American propaganda, overemphasizing Paris in the context of Islamic terrorism which she never addressed once before or after, making questionable statements about the gay portion of her fanbase,...) and I am in no way convinced that she should be seen as a sincerely political artist, despite her claims about herself.

I feel like I've missed a lot - you mean because she said Putin/russian government is conservative/homophobic etc. it's anti-Russia American propaganda? Or have I missed something else? Because I'm definitely no conspiracy theorist, but what she said about *** Riot etc., I do totally agree with her and I don't believe it's intentional "anti propaganda" at all? (Same goes for Anti-Americanism, which is highly popular now - of course both countries deserve a hell lot of criticism, but it's important to differentiate and regarding the homophobia I think she was absolutly right, since it's the truth and no lie of the media etc. ... There's lots of proofs)
And with "ignoring and misrepresenting of the violence", do you mean because she has performed in Israel? Has she stated something... controversial?

Well, anyway - I agree, also how she supports Hillary and totally dismissed the Paparazzi's question regarding Bernie Sanders.  But I liked her "Don't ask, don't tell" speech and commitment to it. If I remember correctly she also used to write political essays at school, so that would be interesting to read.
 

[Didymus 34,380]

12 minutes ago, Andy McQueen said:

I feel like I've missed a lot - you mean because she said Putin/russian government is conservative/homophobic etc. it's anti-Russia American propaganda? Or have I missed something else? Because I'm definitely no conspiracy theorist, but what she said about *** Riot etc., I do totally agree with her and I don't believe it's intentional "anti propaganda" at all? (Same goes for Anti-Americanism, which is highly popular now - of course both countries deserve a hell lot of criticism, but it's important to differentiate and regarding the homophobia I think she was absolutly right, since it's the truth and no lie of the media etc. ... There's lots of proofs)
And with "ignoring and misrepresenting of the violence", do you mean because she has performed in Israel? Has she stated something... controversial?

Well, anyway - I agree, also how she supports Hillary and totally dismissed the Paparazzi's question regarding Bernie Sanders.  But I liked her "Don't ask, don't tell" speech and commitment to it. If I remember correctly she also used to write political essays at school, so that would be interesting to read.

Well, she said in 2013 that it was "absolutely wrong" for so many countries to send money and economy to a country that doesn't support gay rights (in the context of the Olympics), while apparently she didn't have any problem performing in Azerbaijan for the European Games (for which she was justly criticized). This is the kind of shocking self-contradiction that leads people to conclude that she's actually not smart, not educated and just an American puppet.

She also tweeted in 2013 that Russia was "criminal" and that "we" (presumably Gaga and her fans) would fight for the freedom of the LGBT community there, while, really, she didn't do **** for that and has systematically ignored similar issues around the world. That's when I call her out for being a dumb American bimbo who doesn't even try to educate herself about global issues, especially because her tweets came at a time when there was consistent, never-ending anti-Russia sentiment in Western media.

When it comes to Israel, she said that the Western media was "wrong" in their reporting on Israel and that it was not a violent country at all, but a beautiful one. This was shortly after the war that killed hundreds upon hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians, about which she didn't say one word, not during her performance, before or afterwards. That is a ****ing cop-out and it is disgusting and that's why I get frustrated and angry when people (mostly her fans) pretend she really cares about being political in a way that isn't either predictable or evasive.

[Bury Me 477]

I actually disagree with everything written in the opening message. 

[lego 44,165]

8 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

When it comes to Israel, she said that the Western media was "wrong" in their reporting on Israel and that it was not a violent country at all, but a beautiful one. This was shortly after the war that killed hundreds upon hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians, about which she didn't say one word, not during her performance, before or afterwards. That is a ****ing cop-out and it is disgusting and that's why I get frustrated and angry when people (mostly her fans) pretend she really cares about being political in a way that isn't either predictable or evasive.

 

This part still hurts.  

[Mason Knowles 119]

I know I'm gonna be hated, but I'm gonna speak my mind nonetheless. I feel as if we live in an age where everyone is far too sensitive. I know coming from a young gay artist that's crazy for me to say, but if it's not homophobia it's race, if it's not speaking your mind it's stepping on someone else's toes. This generation is far too sensitive. All opinions and thoughts don't have to be double-sided. That lyric in Donatella does not have to be her way of keeping her straight fans. People think way too much into these things. Just let her be and make the music that she chooses to make and write the songs she chooses to write. When the time comes for her to be "radical" if she feels that's the direction she wants to go, then she will go it.

[lego 44,165]

@Didymus

Do you also remember her saying something about having connections to White House and being informed about the dangers etc? That made her look so self-centered and stupid, it wasn't all about HER safety, it was much more than that. And then retweeting some articles, like she's done some good deed "first artist to perform after the war", "brought the light after the war"... ugh

 

[Didymus 34,380]

2 minutes ago, Mason Knowles said:

I know I'm gonna be hated, but I'm gonna speak my mind nonetheless. I feel as if we live in an age where everyone is far too sensitive. I know coming from a young gay artist that's crazy for me to say, but if it's not homophobia it's race, if it's not speaking your mind it's stepping on someone else's toes. This generation is far too sensitive. All opinions and thoughts don't have to be double-sided. That lyric in Donatella does not have to be her way of keeping her straight fans. People think way too much into these things. Just let her be and make the music that she chooses to make and write the songs she chooses to write. When the time comes for her to be "radical" if she feels that's the direction she wants to go, then she will go it.

Well, you picked out one sentence of the whole post. I don't agree with it either but you have to at least respond to the gist of what he's saying

The whole point is that she actually already wàs "radical" but gave it up.

In my opinion, the "too sensitive" argument doesn't work well here because @Alex C is actually asking for more political statements, more revolutionary character, more comments on uncomfortable issues.

[Didymus 34,380]

9 minutes ago, SubRosa said:

@Didymus

Do you also remember her saying something about having connections to White House and being informed about the dangers etc? That made her look so self-centered and stupid, it wasn't all about HER safety, it was much more than that. And then retweeting some articles, like she's done some good deed "first artist to perform after the war", "brought the light after the war"... ugh

Thats about her performance at Israel right? Yeah, I remember things of that. Very disappointing. I mean, I don't necessarily want her to condemn Israel or whatever, but when you're willing to call Russia corrupt, criminal and worthy of boycotting for not supporting gay rights while choosing to stay silent about decades of U.S.-backed oppression, illegal conduct and social inequality, you don't look good, especially when other artists like Rihanna and even Selena ffs ( ) defended Palestine in that particular context and artists have cancelled their shows there or refused to perform there as a political statement. Meanwhile, the queen of equality, political activism and bravery chooses to use her platform to call Israel a misrepresented country, ignoring the Palestinian side 100% and pretending that there's no real conflict at all.

And again, before I get stoned here: I don't need her to be a political activist, it's just the inconsistency (that's always ignored) and the delusion in the fanbase about her imagined achievements and character that bugs me.

[Mason Knowles 119]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well, you picked out one sentence of the whole post. I don't agree with it either but you have to at least respond to the gist of what he's saying

The whole point is that she actually already wàs "radical" but gave it up.

In my opinion, the "too sensitive" argument doesn't work well here because @Alex C is actually asking for more political statements, more revolutionary character, more comments on uncomfortable issues.

Besides BTW and TFM and the topics discussed there being "American" issues; gay rights (pertaining to the U.S.), women's rights (pertaining to the U.S.), immigration issues again all pertaining to the U.S. when has she written music about world issues? Personally, I think Aura is her most radical song and it came from ARTPOP, all I'm trying to say is that at her core she's a musician - not a political leader. The media at the time of those albums painted her as this radical political pop star, but we all know that they contort and exaggerate characteristics. If she's happy with the music then what else can we ask for. Even if we don't like it, she does and it's part of her that she's sharing with the world.