The -now lost- Political Gaga + her Radical Art

[lego 44,165]

17 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Thats about her performance at Israel right? Yeah, I remember things of that. Very disappointing. I mean, I don't necessarily want her to condemn Israel or whatever, but when you're willing to call Russia corrupt, criminal and worthy of boycotting for not supporting gay rights while choosing to stay silent about decades of U.S.-backed oppression, illegal conduct and social inequality, you don't look, especially when other artists like Rihanna and even Selena ffs ( ) defended Palestine in that particular context and artists have cancelled their shows there or refused to perform there as a political statement. Meanwhile, the queen of equality, political activism and bravery chooses to use her platform to call Israel a misrepresented country, ignoring the Palestinian side 100% and pretending that there's no real conflict at all.

And again, before I get stoned here: I don't need her to be a political activist, it's just the inconsistency (that's always ignored) and the delusion in the fanbase about her imagined achievements and character that bugs me.

 

Exactly, because it's more than ok for an American to be openly anti-Russia, but saying anything against Israel at the time would possibly damage her career. So do you think she knows and doesn't care or she's really just ignorant? 

 

 

edit: I just saw your edit so I had to add that part.   very true...

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

43 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well, she said in 2013 that it was "absolutely wrong" for so many countries to send money and economy to a country that doesn't support gay rights (in the context of the Olympics), while apparently she didn't have any problem performing in Azerbaijan for the European Games (for which she was justly criticized). This is the kind of shocking self-contradiction that leads people to conclude that she's actually not smart, not educated and just an American puppet.

She also tweeted in 2013 that Russia was "criminal" and that "we" (presumably Gaga and her fans) would fight for the freedom of the LGBT community there, while, really, she didn't do **** for that and has systematically ignored similar issues around the world. That's when I call her out for being a dumb American bimbo who doesn't even try to educate herself about global issues, especially because her tweets came at a time when there was consistent, never-ending anti-Russia sentiment in Western media.

When it comes to Israel, she said that the Western media was "wrong" in their reporting on Israel and that it was not a violent country at all, but a beautiful one. This was shortly after the war that killed hundreds upon hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians, about which she didn't say one word, not during her performance, before or afterwards. That is a ****ing cop-out and it is disgusting and that's why I get frustrated and angry when people (mostly her fans) pretend she really cares about being political in a way that isn't either predictable or evasive.

I actually didn't know quite a bit of this and it's really disheartening to hear  Mess.

~~~ Anyway, I think id be here for Gaga being more political as long as its actually in a meaningful way... so, not in the music but no where else or vice versa (like, generic tweets, but nothing else) No half-assing it, otherwise it comes off wrong  I also think that while BtW actually was quite subversive and "radical" for its time... at least in America..

I wrote a 10 page paper on it actually  I had a similar criticism in the paper as well, arguing that most of the subversive nature and the narrative she was pushing was aimed at the already "fringe" radical members of society, especially youth and not really like, the average middle class straight cis white male for instance... and it really is more about self-empowerment and empathy (at least to me) than it is political in the grander scheme of things. Maybe the album would have been more centered if it had been more focused with fewer off-hand political statements *shrug*

In retrospect, much of it, maybe sans the first song was so clouded or discreet or microscopic that it seems very ineffective. Maybe in terms of LGBT issues, she is more likely to be vocal, as there are plenty of gender bending or non-heterosexual references used in a kind of normalizing way if that makes sense... (hence the subvertive nature I was referring to... if that makes sense too  ) but in other more politicized areas like Immigration she fell pretty short. She's definitely opinionated, and she COULD do it, but at this point I don't really expect it. Tbh she reminds me of White Feminism, her approach tends to focus on a specific class of people at a time and with fervor while completely disregarding entire other groups of people, even when they are related to other classes  

 

 

[Dominic 11,922]

I agree partly.   

In my opinion Gaga seems to have this conceived notion that she is changing the world one sequin at a time through her performance however it doesn't translate in the final product.   There was a video of Gaga in Russia when she was screaming 'cuff me'  and getting the crowd to shout it too which doesn't help anyone at all but her status.   It makes her look like she is a politically aggressive force even if she isn't,  it's great marketing really.  She states that her tours are a safe place for fans to escape the harsh reality outside but again they're safe for 2 hours... And then Gaga can leave looking like a saviour and the crowd are then left to face those realities.  

The idea of empowerment and bravery is in the same vein to me,  it's an egotistical way of marketing,  she wants to be our Queen (saviour)  and we help to be 'brave'  however this was again contradicted later on when she said she doesn't want to be anyone's Queen.  The woe is me act during the Monster Ball when she was seen crying was another means of marketing this behaviour.  

I don't expect her to be the second coming and tackle political and social issues however if you make claims as such 'cuff me russia',  'you make me brave'  and a majority of Aura and you fail to add further substance than just audio on a YouTube video then in my opinion you're not really a politically progressive artist but more so a figure head.    

[DrewStevens 5,249]

When this thread changed from "what ARTPOP lacked was this" to "let's discuss all the times Gag's was an ignorant stupid white privileged American"?

Of course she has double standards and ignores a lot of things. Everyone does it, it's impossible not to do so.

[JackTheTripper 866]

I dont think beacuse she decided to perform in Russia is somewhat a contradicition to her statment, if she backed out-would it be worse-it could only benefit to have performer on her lavel headline a show promoting equality in a country like Russia- especially for kids who are  being fed with cruel prpaganda by their own dictator, 

It is obvious she wasnt educated about lots of tingg happening in a world, and i am not saying she as a pop star has that obligation but considering her history of speaking out strongly for human rights and equality the Isreal fiasco is unforgetable,  oh and performing iz Azerbejan-to promote the show that is used as a distraction from current human rights crissis in a country with FREAKING PUTIN IN attendance----  Come on Gagz, you are losing me 

[Ethan 2,051]

1 hour ago, Alex C said:

"...ask your gay friends their advice, before you"

Even tho I understand that she is being sarcastic towards women who base their aesthetic on "yes-men" who happen to be gay most of the times, her tone in that line felt.... "let's include a lyric so that the str8 fans feel I am not in the BTW era/mentality anymore"

I'm sorry sweetie, but even if that line was included for the sake you claim, THATS NOT HOMOPHOBIA. this thread is embarrassing and I hope gaga never sees it. bye

[JackTheTripper 866]

Look im not saying she isnt political or radical or  vocal enough, considering she is a pop star, all of her efforts in equality i applaud, for someone on her sttus and inffluence it will do good for some kids in unprivileged country, All pluses on that one, but when you are being loud about  on twitter about your worldwide actions on human rights-  we kind of ecspect more than her having agreat time in israel eating local cousine and people being frendly to her, whilist being completly unaware of the influence her country had on the war on midle east,

[Didymus 32,796]

17 minutes ago, SubRosa said:

Exactly, because it's more than ok for an American to be openly anti-Russia, but saying anything against Israel at the time would possibly damage her career. So do you think she knows and doesn't care or she's really just ignorant? 

I honestly have no idea

But given the fact that she's such a passionate supporter of Hillary I think it's clear that she hasn't (yet) married her "Gaga ideals" with an actual political reality.

[djBuffoon 11,710]

Born This Way was her only overtly political album, though. It's not like she was doing that since the beginning and then dropped it for ARTPOP. ARTPOP is very revealing about Gaga, with several of the songs seeing her at her most naked since "Speechless".

[Didymus 32,796]

13 minutes ago, DrewStevens said:

When this thread changed from "what ARTPOP lacked was this" to "let's discuss all the times Gag's was an ignorant stupid white privileged American"?

Of course she has double standards and ignores a lot of things. Everyone does it, it's impossible not to do so.

Ok, but not everyone claims to be a political activist who wants to combat injustice, inequality and oppression while empowering youth, minorities and basically everyone else.. If I publicly stated the things Gaga did, I'd be ****ing HAPPY if someone would point out contradictions and double standards in my behavior because I would want to do the best job I could. Just ignoring double standards (esp. when you're talking about equality ) is lazy. You don't just need to accept that humans are fallible. What about trying to minimize fallibility?

And I don't think you read the OP well either. It's not about what ARTPOP lacked, it's about Gaga (and I'm not speaking for me here, only for the OP) letting go of her radical and political sublayer in her work because of fan and industry pressure. The OP wants a political revolutionary character to come back into the frame in the future. So discussing her political aims/moves/statements is actually perfectly on-topic. We're examining how radical she actually was/is and if she should even try to be political, that's not the same as insulting her.

[StarstruckIllusion 42,155]

Um wtf, Gaga is a musical artist, not a politician. Gaga is a gay rights activist and a gay rights activist first. It makes more sense to put your energy to attack one issue at a time than all of them, or else you look like a messy SJW. This is why she probably stopped being such an accurate "world activist", because of threads analyzing every damn inch she moves and mistakes she made. Delete this exceptionally high standard for her, it's already lost anyway. I swear NASA would be jealous at the reaches to the ends of the universe y'all are making.

[JackTheTripper 866]

why everyone is being active on this tread is because there is one problem with Gaga that is somewhat common, she is to often contradicting herself, but unlike some shallow and unimportant stuff, there are topics that you should point fingers and be cricial..... like evryone said, he was being loud and public about political issues ragrading human rights, and her influence on them- but than some stuff happend that you just cant ignore. I will remain her fan, sure, but you cant be blinded by  your admiration  and ignore everything else

[Nervous Unicorn 429]

omg people are finally saying it 

i was livid when all of that happened with Israel. and when she did the EU games. it all felt wrong and left a bad taste in my mouth.

i still remember when she said she wasn't a feminist. 

and also, for someone who is all about stopping injustice and inequality she sure is quiet about things like Ferguson and Baltimore or Tamir Rice where there's a disgusting amount of injustice happening. 

here's the issue: for Gaga wanting to be such a radical free spirit, she picks really safe issues to talk about/comment on, which would be fine, except she's made it a point that she wants to be known as a radical. 

 

idk I guess it makes sense if she's supporting that robot Hillary and not my bae Bernie 

[Didymus 32,796]

13 minutes ago, ROARyals said:

Um wtf, Gaga is a musical artist, not a politician. Gaga is a gay rights activist and a gay rights activist first. It makes more sense to put your energy to attack one issue at a time than all of them, or else you look like a messy SJW. This is why she probably stopped being such an accurate "world activist", because of threads analyzing every damn inch she moves and mistakes she made. Delete this exceptionally high standard for her, it's already lost anyway. I swear NASA would be jealous at the reaches to the ends of the universe y'all are making.

I don't think you're being very fair here - I doubt Gaga would appreciate being stamped as a gay rights activist. If she didn't like being called a gay icon, I don't think she would like for people to forget all the social issues she tried to address in favor of only highlighting the most obvious one (and even that one isn't unproblematic: see the discussion about her selectivity for gay rights specifically, comparing Russia with Azerbaijan).

I don't see when/how she stopped presenting herself as a "world activist" either. This year she has stated that she wants to be more politically active and is actively thinking about how she can use her voice and platform for the better of society. Her recent interview for Billboard Magazine also showed no sign of her playing down her activist urges, nor did her support for The Hunting Ground and her opening up about depression and sexual abuse of females in the music industry.

As far as the "reaches" you're referring to: I think everyone is referring to very specific statements Gaga has made. And even if we're stressing her political side a bit too much here, I think that's more agreeable than pretending 50% of her statements about social and political issues don't exist (which you seem to be doing..).

[JackTheTripper 866]

I am willing to forgive her all if she deletes the punk part from her twitter bio- because she coudnt be more opposite of one