Oregon terrorists don't plan siege very well, put out plea for snacks

[JbGaga 2,261]

On 1/3/2016 at 0:21 PM, ajhuffman219 said:

So, in a nutshell, the government wants these farmers to sale their land so they can add it to a wildlife refuge, but the farmers refused. That seems fair to me, its a simple "no thanks I'm not interested" kind of situation. But, according to the farmers, the government has been harassing them ever since they turned down the offer. That also is plausible, we know our government has a history of doing this to its citizens. If this is the root problem of their anger, then I am 100% supportive of their cause.

However, I have to question why they feel the need to use violence in this situation. It seems they have a rather large group of supporters and a well-thought protest or even a sit-in would surely send a better message. In other words, I don't think we're getting the entire story and I refuse to draw conclusions and cast judgement until we do. 

 

 

its not that simple. Govmernt can use Emanate domain (google it) to take land for "public good" (Term can be used loosely). Thats probibly what they are fighting against.

[Goosey 3,017]

Just now, SubRosa said:

So how is it misleading? Did it hurt your feelings?

"Terrorists"

Show me where they've made direct threats of violence, intend to harm people, have harmed anyone in their numerous past protests, kidnapped or held anyone, blow something up, or even fire a shot into the air. 

Yeah, the media has double standards when it comes to race... that doesn't make these people terrorists because they're occupying an unstaffed bird sanctuary on the holiday weekend. They're protesters.

[lego 44,165]

7 minutes ago, Goosey said:

"Terrorists"

Show me where they've made direct threats of violence, intend to harm people, have harmed anyone in their numerous past protests, kidnapped or held anyone, blow something up, or even fire a shot into the air. 

Yeah, the media has double standards when it comes to race... that doesn't make these people terrorists because they're occupying an unstaffed bird sanctuary on the holiday weekend. They're protesters.

 

Why are you waiting for them to kill someone before you call them with their real name?

Where did they threat with violence? Can you read?

 

"Before taking over the wildlife refuge, Ritzheimer – like other extremists before him – posted a “goodbye” video for his family rationalizing his actions as defending freedom against a “tyrannical government”. “I didn’t come here to shoot, I came here to die,” echoed another militia member, who identified himself only as “Captain Moroni”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbGdMKpHDDE%20%E2%80%A6

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/i-didnt-come-here-to-shoot-i-came-here-to-die-oregon-militia-occupiers-fess-up-to-local-reporters/

 

Ammon Bundy has said that his people won’t “rule out violence” if law enforcement “tries to remove them”.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html

 

His brother, Ryan, told the Oregonian the militants are “willing to kill and be killed if necessary”.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/04/oregon-militia-ammon-bundy-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

 

 

 

[Goosey 3,017]

4 minutes ago, SubRosa said:

Domestic terrorists, then?

 

[AJH219 4,448]

26 minutes ago, JbGaga said:

its not that simple. Govmernt can use Emanate domain (google it) to take land for "public good" (Term can be used loosely). Thats probibly what they are fighting against.

Its justification for use seems like a slippery slope. It reminds me of an article I read once for an Anthropology class about the repercussions of the government taking land from local farms during construction of the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina during the middle 20th Century. Just from a cursory reading of the definition, I don't know if I feel too supportive of this power. I'll need to find some un-biased readings (how hard that will be) and investigate further. 

[lego 44,165]

Oregon militia occupying wildlife refuge aims to overthrow government, says sheriff

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/04/oregon-militia-occupying-wildlife-refuge-wants-to-overthrow-government-says-sheriff

 

so peaceful

 

 

3 minutes ago, Goosey said:

Domestic terrorists, then?

 

Vandals. They are not armed and they didn't occupy federal property and threaten to kill if they're removed.  

 

 

I love how you ignored obvious threats of violence. 

[mmm 879]

2 minutes ago, SubRosa said:

Vandals. They are not armed and they didn't occupy federal property and threat to kill if they're removed.  

They are allowed to have guns in that state and they threatened the government if the government used illegal force against them by not giving them their legal right.

[Princess Die 1,864]

6 minutes ago, Goosey said:

Domestic terrorists, then?

 

Yas bitch. Pivot like a queen. Daddy Trump would be so proud. 

[AJH219 4,448]

1 minute ago, Fays1 said:

They are allowed to have guns in that state and they threatened the government if the government used illegal force against them by not giving them their legal right.

Exactly and I support that 100%. If the government comes at me with guns blazing, I'm going to give it right back to them. All of the other articles I am reading seem to indicate this "armed standoff" is actually nothing of the sort. The more I read about the backstory to this whole ordeal, the more I'm starting to side with the ranchers tbh. 

[lego 44,165]

“These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers,” Sheriff David Ward said in a statement, “when in reality these men had alternative motives, to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States.”

Members of the rightwing Bundy militia occupied the wildlife refuge in Oregon over the weekend, threatening a confrontation with federal authorities, in support of two cattle ranchers who were convicted of setting fires on federal land.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/04/oregon-militia-occupying-wildlife-refuge-wants-to-overthrow-government-says-sheriff

 

So there is an ideology behind this. 

[Goosey 3,017]

1 minute ago, SubRosa said:

Vandals. They are not armed and they didn't occupy federal property and threat to kill if they're removed.  

According to the definition you just posted:

"the unlawful use of violence against persons or property"

Check.

"to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of social or political objectives"

Protest/riot was set off by concerns of police brutality, so... check.

14 minutes ago, SubRosa said:

Where did they threat with violence? Can you read?

"Before taking over the wildlife refuge, Ritzheimer – like other extremists before him – posted a “goodbye” video for his family rationalizing his actions as defending freedom against a “tyrannical government”. 

Defending freedom is hardly a threat of violence.

=============

“I didn’t come here to shoot, I came here to die,” echoed another militia member, who identified himself only as “Captain Moroni”.

Bold part. Hm.

=============

Ammon Bundy has said that his people won’t “rule out violence” if law enforcement “tries to remove them”.

Not ruling it out is not the the same as saying you'll open fire.

============

His brother, Ryan, told the Oregonian the militants are “willing to kill and be killed if necessary”.

Probably the most pointed statement, but terrorism? Hardly. The same is true of the FBI...

[lego 44,165]

7 minutes ago, Fays1 said:

They are allowed to have guns in that state and they threatened the government if the government used illegal force against them by not giving them their legal right.

 

I don't understand why are you defending this. Tamir Rice had a toy gun in an open carry state and he was shot and denied medical help only because he was a black boy. This kind of thing is called "a protest" only when it's held by white right wing men. 

Change their race or religion and you have different names for them.

 

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, Goosey said:

According to the definition you just posted:

"the unlawful use of violence against persons or property"

Check.

"to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of social or political objectives"

Protest/riot was set off by concerns of police brutality, so... check.

"Before taking over the wildlife refuge, Ritzheimer – like other extremists before him – posted a “goodbye” video for his family rationalizing his actions as defending freedom against a “tyrannical government”. 

Defending freedom is hardly a threat of violence.

=============

“I didn’t come here to shoot, I came here to die,” echoed another militia member, who identified himself only as “Captain Moroni”.

Bold part. Hm.

=============

Ammon Bundy has said that his people won’t “rule out violence” if law enforcement “tries to remove them”.

Not ruling it out is not the the same as saying you'll open fire.

============

His brother, Ryan, told the Oregonian the militants are “willing to kill and be killed if necessary”.

Probably the most pointed statement, but terrorism? Hardly. The same is true of the FBI...

 

lmao excuses

other terrorists call themselves freedom fighters too.

Terrorists will never call themselves terrorists.

And those are all threats of violence. Sorry.

[AJH219 4,448]

I have yet to see adequate evidence this is an act of terrorism. What have these men done other than make some petty threats? Not a damn thing. When they start slaughtering federal officials, then I can start to be swayed. Until, call me when the liberal paranoia wears off 

[Guest]

I live in Oregon and I honestly have not heard about this from local news stations, but it was all over social media, which is how I found out about it. You know what the news was covering? Snow, ice, and people getting into accidents because of it.