After 3 Weeks, 25 Now Outsells 1989 WW Sales

[StrawberryBlond 14,923]

Just now, Whispering said:

It's not hard to believe, I just don't think it matters. Taylor is huge in four of the top six music markets in the world. That has served her well in the past and will continue to do so in the future. If the next era, she only grosses 150 million on tour...like she did with RED versus 250 million with 1989, I'm sure she can pull herself together somehow and go on. Lol

Look at Katy, with all the talk of being a worldwide artist. She didn't even manage to hit 200 million on her big "worldwide tour", despite playing twice as many dates as Taylor....and Prism sold less than half of what 1989 sold in total. Yep...I would take the 82 dates at 250 million any day!

Your personal definition of success is someone who is internationally successful...even though they aren't selling close to what less "internationally successful" artists are selling. I simply don't agree with your definition of what it means to be a highly successful artist. 

She's only just managed to acheive this though, after a decade in the industry. It would have been far more impressive if she had been like this from the beginning. Most artists can do this, why couldn't she? Country can sell globally if you market it right, but her label just didn't care and kept her a US based act for too long. My point is, if she's only just cracked this global success thing after all these years, there's no indication that it can continue. It could be a one off. Many artists have a big global hit album and then fade away and are only relevant in the country they originated from again. If Taylor goes back to her roots (and she's sure talking as if she won't try to recreate 1989 again), this will definitely happen.

Taylor charges big bucks for her tickets, that's why they have such high grosses. And she was playing at lots of stadiums whilst Katy was mostly at arenas. Even for all the difference in grosses, there's no indication there that Taylor is bigger globally. Almost all that money came from North America. Only a quarter came from Europe and Oceania combined and less than a quarter from Asia. No Latin America or Africa. She only went to 10 countries on this "world" tour. Putting all that into account, she really isn't that global. Katy, on the other hand, had a large amount of money from all over the world, practically equal from America and Australia. She went to Latin America and actually went to more than a few countries in Asia. She went to 38 countries, making this far more deserving of being called a "world" tour. I'm not a Katy fan, but there's no denying that she's more global than Taylor. She's had more hits, more international recognition. If Taylor's so huge, why can't she do gigs anywhere? If she's not going to other countries, it's because she's not successful enough. Her record label is greedy as hell - if they think there's demand somewhere, they'll happily add a date, let's not mess about. Let's see her sell out arenas in Scandanavia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, etc. She only went to the rich countries too. The only exception to this was Ireland and that was 2 arenas. Ed Sheeran sold out 2 stadium gigs there recently.

You may not agree but the proof is in the relevance of these artists globally. I remember a Russian member of this site was saying that in their record shop, there were so many English-speaking artists work available. They had Lana Del Rey stuff (she doesn't even have hit singles). They had Gaga stuff (even a vinyl of C2C, which wasn't a massive seller). But they had no Taylor stuff. That tells you all you need to know, really. You seem incapable of understanding how international audiences view artists. It always makes me laugh when there's all these US artists with big egos who act like they're the centre of the universe...maybe in their homeland. It would shock them to realise how unknown they are globally. It's a total myth that if you've made it in America, the whole world knows and cares about you. Even in the international world of the internet, this isn't true.

[Whispering 18,865]

@StrawberryBlond

Taylor's ticket prices are in line with other big acts at her level...JT, Beyonce, etc. And yes, she was able to do stadiums and huge arenas due to demand, so that meant her gross was better than those doing typical sized arenas (and struggling to sell out some of those) and no stadiums. Katy didn't sell anymore CDs outside of North America than Taylor did...she's not anymore global than Taylor in that regard. Why doesn't Taylor do more shows in areas of the world where she sells albums? Probably because it is her choice to have a life. She makes twice as much as others in half the time and she gets to stay fairly close to friends and family for a good part of her tour. That's what I would do too! That way you aren't away from everyone and everything for months and years. That way you can have a few months to take a break or try your hand at other projects. Sounds perfect! 

All that tells me is that Taylor is selling ten to twenty times more than Lana, even if she isn't known in Russia. I'll take the ten million sold CDs and the 250 million dollar tour! Lol

You seem incapable of understanding that I don't care about that and I don't use that as a measuring stick for what artists are successful of not. You seem incapable of understanding that the music market and industry agrees with me and not your personal definition of "success". 

[StrawberryBlond 14,923]

Just now, Whispering said:

@StrawberryBlond

Taylor's ticket prices are in line with other big acts at her level...JT, Beyonce, etc. And yes, she was able to do stadiums and huge arenas due to demand, so that meant her gross was better than those doing typical sized arenas (and struggling to sell out some of those) and no stadiums. Katy didn't sell anymore CDs outside of North America than Taylor did...she's not anymore global than Taylor in that regard. Why doesn't Taylor do more shows in areas of the world where she sells albums? Probably because it is her choice to have a life. She makes twice as much as others in half the time and she gets to stay fairly close to friends and family for a good part of her tour. That's what I would do too! That way you aren't away from everyone and everything for months and years. That way you can have a few months to take a break or try your hand at other projects. Sounds perfect! 

All that tells me is that Taylor is selling ten to twenty times more than Lana, even if she isn't known in Russia. I'll take the ten million sold CDs and the 250 million dollar tour! Lol

You seem incapable of understanding that I don't care about that and I don't use that as a measuring stick for what artists are successful of not. You seem incapable of understanding that the music market and industry agrees with me and not your personal definition of "success". 

JT and Beyonce also had big grosses, so...Katy's international gross outearned Taylor's, so there you go. If she can perform in regions where Taylor can't, that proves she has the demand that Taylor lacks. You really think Taylor has less dates because she wants to have a life and be close to her family? Dream on. Her team are so snooty that they only want her to perform at large arenas and stadiums. Small arenas are out the equation. They know that if she did a large arena in somewhere risky for her, like say, Portugal or Norway, there's a big chance it would only be half full. And a half full statistic on the tour record would be unthinkable, they only want 100% sellouts (thanks Gaga, for being brave enou to tour these regions even if you only got 50% attendance, as pleasing the fans is more important than an audience statistic). If you look back at her first international dates, she started out small. For the Speak Now tour, she did little concert halls and small arenas in Europe and Asia, as befits an artist who has small demand in these regions. But suddenly, she took off more with Red and her dynamic changed. Suddenly, only the largest venues would suffice. If you were from somewhere that didn't have a big arena or weren't a "relevant" country, she wouldn't come to you. She only did 2 countries in Europe, for crying out loud! If the country doesn't provide huge demand, she won't come to you. Her team have built her up to be a large venue touring act. Can't tarnish that reputation by sending her to 8,000 capacity mini arenas! The horror!

Yeah, take the $250 million grossing tour that only went to 10 countries and left international fans wanting! We all have money to burn on travel, accomodation, food and a day off work, can't we? I'll take the tour that told most fans that they were worth it and didn't force them to travel over an ocean to be blessed with their idol's presence! I remember it brought a tear to my eye when Gaga said to her fans in Dubai: "I will not ignore you, I won't pretend like you don't exist." If the artist doesn't want to go far afield, just do a residency show and have done with it.

So, if the music industry agrees with you, that makes them right? Once again, Americans are used to just having success in their home country, as its big enough to sustain them. They don't really think about the benefits of making it elsewhere. They don't see it as a big deal. But internationally, it's what's at the forefront of our artists minds. And to us, it is a big deal. Naturally, making it internationally if hugely important. We're the 99%, you're the 1%.

[Mobster 14,604]

[Whispering 18,865]

6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

JT and Beyonce also had big grosses, so...Katy's international gross outearned Taylor's, so there you go. If she can perform in regions where Taylor can't, that proves she has the demand that Taylor lacks. You really think Taylor has less dates because she wants to have a life and be close to her family? Dream on. Her team are so snooty that they only want her to perform at large arenas and stadiums. Small arenas are out the equation. They know that if she did a large arena in somewhere risky for her, like say, Portugal or Norway, there's a big chance it would only be half full. And a half full statistic on the tour record would be unthinkable, they only want 100% sellouts (thanks Gaga, for being brave enou to tour these regions even if you only got 50% attendance, as pleasing the fans is more important than an audience statistic). If you look back at her first international dates, she started out small. For the Speak Now tour, she did little concert halls and small arenas in Europe and Asia, as befits an artist who has small demand in these regions. But suddenly, she took off more with Red and her dynamic changed. Suddenly, only the largest venues would suffice. If you were from somewhere that didn't have a big arena or weren't a "relevant" country, she wouldn't come to you. She only did 2 countries in Europe, for crying out loud! If the country doesn't provide huge demand, she won't come to you. Her team have built her up to be a large venue touring act. Can't tarnish that reputation by sending her to 8,000 capacity mini arenas! The horror!

Yeah, take the $250 million grossing tour that only went to 10 countries and left international fans wanting! We all have money to burn on travel, accomodation, food and a day off work, can't we? I'll take the tour that told most fans that they were worth it and didn't force them to travel over an ocean to be blessed with their idol's presence! I remember it brought a tear to my eye when Gaga said to her fans in Dubai: "I will not ignore you, I won't pretend like you don't exist." If the artist doesn't want to go far afield, just do a residency show and have done with it.

So, if the music industry agrees with you, that makes them right? Once again, Americans are used to just having success in their home country, as its big enough to sustain them. They don't really think about the benefits of making it elsewhere. They don't see it as a big deal. But internationally, it's what's at the forefront of our artists minds. And to us, it is a big deal. Naturally, making it internationally if hugely important. We're the 99%, you're the 1%.

Yes, they had big grosses because they are at a higher level...a level where the demand is high enough to fill large arenas and stadiums...unlike Katy. Of course Katy had a higher International gross, she had to do twice as many dates to pass Taylor's gross with far fewer dates. Eh, Taylor doesn't need to do those dates with seven or eight thousand people, so why do them? Less money and it takes time from your life and your career. I wouldn't do it either if I could knock out 250 million with 84 dates. Simple law of Economics! Also, when you write all your own music, you want and need time to live life between eras. I can certainly see why songwriters would desire time for the creative process. As we have seen, Gaga has learned that she wants this time, as well. She wants time to be creative and pursue other projects and that's why she chose to do a shorter tour. Much smarter long term choice for songwriters and for those who have options outside of being a manufactured pop artist! 

Ahhhhh, poor baby....you might have to travel to a concert. Lol You do realize that the US is such a large population spread out over a large area, that the majority of people have to travel to see the bigger names? I've driven 12 hours round trip and flown on a plane to see Gaga the two times I saw her (Gaga is soooo awful for not coming to my city...jk) and I'll be traveling several hours and staying overnight to see Adele. Unless you live in one of the bigger cities, with a big economic base, you will be traveling a few hours, at the least, to see the big names...so that means staying overnight and taking a couple of days off of work or away from school. If an artist wanted to make it convenient for everyone in the US, they would need to do around 150 dates in the states alone. We wouldn't want anyone to have to travel or take a day off of work! Haha

Yes, it makes it right...much more so than some amateur music fan on some random fanforum. The US has the largest music market in the world. Most of the biggest names have at least a third of their music sales coming from the US and many have closer to half. That's 33 percent to fifty percent, not 1 per cent. Sorry, but you aren't the 99 percent, not in the music industry. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,923]

13 hours ago, Whispering said:

Yes, they had big grosses because they are at a higher level...a level where the demand is high enough to fill large arenas and stadiums...unlike Katy. Of course Katy had a higher International gross, she had to do twice as many dates to pass Taylor's gross with far fewer dates. Eh, Taylor doesn't need to do those dates with seven or eight thousand people, so why do them? Less money and it takes time from your life and your career. I wouldn't do it either if I could knock out 250 million with 84 dates. Simple law of Economics! Also, when you write all your own music, you want and need time to live life between eras. I can certainly see why songwriters would desire time for the creative process. As we have seen, Gaga has learned that she wants this time, as well. She wants time to be creative and pursue other projects and that's why she chose to do a shorter tour. Much smarter long term choice for songwriters and for those who have options outside of being a manufactured pop artist! 

Ahhhhh, poor baby....you might have to travel to a concert. Lol You do realize that the US is such a large population spread out over a large area, that the majority of people have to travel to see the bigger names? I've driven 12 hours round trip and flown on a plane to see Gaga the two times I saw her (Gaga is soooo awful for not coming to my city...jk) and I'll be traveling several hours and staying overnight to see Adele. Unless you live in one of the bigger cities, with a big economic base, you will be traveling a few hours, at the least, to see the big names...so that means staying overnight and taking a couple of days off of work or away from school. If an artist wanted to make it convenient for everyone in the US, they would need to do around 150 dates in the states alone. We wouldn't want anyone to have to travel or take a day off of work! Haha

Yes, it makes it right...much more so than some amateur music fan on some random fanforum. The US has the largest music market in the world. Most of the biggest names have at least a third of their music sales coming from the US and many have closer to half. That's 33 percent to fifty percent, not 1 per cent. Sorry, but you aren't the 99 percent, not in the music industry. 

But surely it isn't as impressive when you can only visit a few countries, no matter how much you earn? That actually makes it easier to gross more - limited dates. If you only do a few countries, your fans have to travel to see you, inflating your gross per venue. For the Red tour, the only place in the UK she went to was London, 5 dates at the O2. Naturally, she grossed well as all her fans from all over the country descended on the only venue avaliable. Now, if she had done a proper arena tour over the length and breadth of the country, the fans wouldn't have had to travel, they have a local date to go to. Which means overall UK attendance and gross is spread out and she might be playing to some really small crowds. As a whole, it won't look as impressive. If she went to 7 venues throughout the country and played to 10,000 per venue, that doesn't look impressive. Playing 5 dates at one venue for 70,000 people overall does look impressive. Keeping dates exclusively London based to make them look more impressive and "exclusive" really pisses me off, as it does to all Northerners. It sends the message that we aren't good/rich enough. For years, Scotland, and to an extent, the North of England, missed out on some big acts, presumably because our arenas just weren't big enough (we used to have a 12,500 arena and struggled to get some custom, now we have a 13,000 one and it's the second most popular arena in the world - bizarre!) Katy managed to do a proper UK arena tour that covered the most major cities and pulled in more money because she went to more places. It's basic maths. If you get a big gross from just 3 dates, it doesn't mean you were uber popular, it just means the majority of your fans had to travel to see you instead of spreading the attendance and gross by going local as it wasn't an available option. Surely it's more impressive when you can do 10 arena dates in a country than 5, regardless of the money it earns?

Yes, I know Americans sometimes have to travel to see a show but we're talking about Taylor, who was going everywhere because she was popular enough to do it. Unless you live in Hawaii or Wyoming, you can pretty much find a date relatively close by for such a tour. Even North Dakota can pull in performers now with that large arena. I just find it strange that Taylor isn't performing in New York despite it being a touring gold mine, her living there and having a song title with its name in it! Again, this is that condensing the cost thing again. She won't go to NY, but she will go to Massachusetts for 2 stadium dates. That means that NY'ers have to go there to see her, along with local fans, making those massive venues easier to fill. If she did 2 gigs at the Yankee stadium on top of it, numbers wouldn't be as high as they'd just go local. And when I say that people have to travel, I'm talking about people in countries that Taylor never visits like Latin America, Middle East, Africa. Even certain Eastern European nations and some parts of Eastern Asia. That's a hell of a lot more than a 12 hour drive away. It's a mini break and you'd have to be rich to afford it.

I wasn't talking about music markets, just population. And I was talking about not just the UK, the whole world outside America. America - 1%, rest of the world - 99%. We outnumber you. Put together, we have a bigger music market. Artists should try to make it worldwide. Without us, they only have minor relevance.

[Whispering 18,865]

@StrawberryBlond

You can compare the amount of people per show. Taylor averaged close to 28,000 per show due to having bigger arenas and stadiums in the mix. This is how it works. That's why the acts that can play stadiums usually have the biggest grossing tours of the year.

Once again, sorry you are pissed off that you might have to travel for a concert. The majority of people in smaller countries or those who live in large countries in smaller towns are used to having to travel. Sounds like some people are a bit spoiled and entitled. 

Like I stated before...Gaga, who did hundreds of shows never came to my city. I had to travel twelve hours round trip and fly on an airplane to see her the two times I saw her. Taylor would have been easier to see, since the country music capitol is three hours from where I live. That's where I will be going to see Adele, as she isn't coming to my city either. It will still take an overnight stay in a hotel and a day or two off. I don't live in "Wyoming or Hawaii" either, but in a city with a population of 2.4 million people. 

The number of people don't matter. Who buys music? What countries have the people and money base to support artists and music? The US accounts for a third to half of most artists sales, especially singles! As far as the music industry, the US is not "the one per cent". It is the number one music market in the world. There are large areas of the world that the majority of artists never go to or rarely go to. They go where they have a following, album sales and fans with the money base to support them. Same thing happens with smaller towns and cities. They get passed over and that's why fans have to travel. 

It all comes down to demand and how long the tour is set to run. Some artists simply don't want to spend sixteen months on tour. It's their life and their career after all, so that's their choice. Gaga has made the decision to keep her tours shorter, to have time for her real life and to pursue other interests and I fully support her! Artists need to make the decisions that are best for them! 

[StrawberryBlond 14,923]

1 hour ago, Whispering said:

@StrawberryBlond

You can compare the amount of people per show. Taylor averaged close to 28,000 per show due to having bigger arenas and stadiums in the mix. This is how it works. That's why the acts that can play stadiums usually have the biggest grossing tours of the year.

Once again, sorry you are pissed off that you might have to travel for a concert. The majority of people in smaller countries or those who live in large countries in smaller towns are used to having to travel. Sounds like some people are a bit spoiled and entitled. 

Like I stated before...Gaga, who did hundreds of shows never came to my city. I had to travel twelve hours round trip and fly on an airplane to see her the two times I saw her. Taylor would have been easier to see, since the country music capitol is three hours from where I live. That's where I will be going to see Adele, as she isn't coming to my city either. It will still take an overnight stay in a hotel and a day or two off. I don't live in "Wyoming or Hawaii" either, but in a city with a population of 2.4 million people. 

The number of people don't matter. Who buys music? What countries have the people and money base to support artists and music? The US accounts for a third to half of most artists sales, especially singles! As far as the music industry, the US is not "the one per cent". It is the number one music market in the world. There are large areas of the world that the majority of artists never go to or rarely go to. They go where they have a following, album sales and fans with the money base to support them. Same thing happens with smaller towns and cities. They get passed over and that's why fans have to travel. 

It all comes down to demand and how long the tour is set to run. Some artists simply don't want to spend sixteen months on tour. It's their life and their career after all, so that's their choice. Gaga has made the decision to keep her tours shorter, to have time for her real life and to pursue other interests and I fully support her! Artists need to make the decisions that are best for them! 

She wouldn't have had those high numbers from one date if she'd done multiple arenas, though. Doing a stadium instead of a few arenas obviously makes things more impressive. If you have one stadium date for the whole country, of course it'll sell out with huge numbers. Do arenas all over the country instead and the numbers may add up to the same, but they'll be lower in isolation and won't look as amazing. The numbers may even be lower too because not all the fans in the land have to crowd into one venue for one night only.

I am not spoiled and entitled. I do live in a big city and was put out that not every artist wanted to come to it for that very reason until The Hydro was made. I was so annoyed at Gaga's management for only making her have 3 UK dates for the BTWB, so I had to go all the way to London because Manchester sold out. She was always someone who went all over the UK, so this was very unfair. Now our arena's so successful that it quite frankly is seen as a major snub if an artist doesn't come here on their world tour. Now they do and there's a big one being built in Aberdeen too - it's showing Scotland matters at long last on the world music market. In the UK, this is just simply how it works - we're a small country but the world's third biggest music market, and we're English speakers, so when you tour here, you go all over the major cities with arenas, or stadiums if you're big enough. There's just a set pattern for what happens in each country and this is how it works for us. Don't go to all the major cities and we get annoyed. We don't take snootiness lying down here.

But some of these artists do have fans in these regions, they just don't go there for some reason. Britney's only been to Australia once in her entire career even though she's had more hits there than in the US. I don't buy her excuse of "it's so far away." For me it is, but you live in California. Hardly the other side of the world, is it? The charts have proved that Taylor has fans for this era all over Europe, so why didn't she go there? I could think of another 7 countries that she could have gone to. Hardly cuts into her free time too much to do 7 extra dates, does it?

Asking to do a few extra countries per continent on your world tour is hardly extending it to a year. For all your talk of major music markets, Taylor didn't go to France, Italy or Brazil, which are in the world's top ten. I thought, according to her fans, she had markets there? And I think Gaga made her tour shorter because the demand was smaller for an underperforming album, no other reason. I'm sure we'd have had another BTWB esque tour if it had been a major hit.

But, anyway, I don't want to argue with you much more. It's almost Christmas - let's be nice to one another!

[Whispering 18,865]

@StrawberryBlond

Riiiight, that's why other artists don't do stadiums...because they want to go to several stops. They want to do 16 months instead of 8 months for half the money because they love their fans sooooo very much. Lol Unless your show just doesn't fit in a stadium atmosphere (and Katy's would have), then the only reason you don't do stadiums is because you can't. The demand isn't there. You aren't a legacy act of a superstar like Taylor, JT or Gaga was during TMB or BTW. Some artists just aren't at that level. 

Why didn't she go to these other areas? Because she had a set amount of time she wanted to tour and she went to where she had the highest demand and could realistically travel to and do shows during that time frame. Just like every other artist, she had a certain amount of time and a tour management company that fit the dates into the time frame. 

Gaga made her tour smaller because she had other projects in mind and she didn't want to overdo it physically again. There were plenty of other areas of the world she could have had shows and many areas of the US that were skipped over. In the old tour thread, we came up with ten dates in the US at least and around twenty dates outside of the US that she would have easily sold out. Another BTWB tour was too much for her, recovering from depression and a major injury. It was well into her artRave tour before Gaga stated that she was finally pain free for an extended period of time. Her well being, both mentally and physically is far more important than fans who don't want to travel. 

Again, these decisions are up to the individual artist and their team. I support artists doing what is best for their careers and for themselves. 

[Gianni Versace 2,987]

On 12/17/2015 at 7:41 PM, JEWRJEWR said:

are you stupid or just blind

your last breathe.