Is Madonna Overrated?

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

18 minutes ago, Didymus said:

You seriously wanna throw Madonna under the bus for stealing ideas without giving credit? 'cause that's what Gaga's famous for and there are plenty of examples of entertainment icons calling her out for it. So I get the argument, but your own fav isn't protected from it either..

I'm trying to find something about Madonna stealing from Sabah but I can't find anything online. In fact, all I can see is that Sabah is compared to Madonna, not the other way around. Nor do I think Madonna would even know about her. It's like when people from Bulgaria or whatever call Gaga a copycat as if Gaga ever paid attention to that country. But since the Daft Punk Get Lucky fake controversy is your other example, I'm guessing you don't really care much about facts or logic The only similarities were the chords, so I guess you think Gaga copied EY too then? Because the people who believe she did use the exact same arguments for Get Lucky.

The reductive thing is way overblown too as any sincere observer would note. In the same interview Madonna said she doesn't believe Gaga copied her and they're completely different artists. Because of the edit and the interviewer's question, I actually think Madonna wasn't talking about the composition but the message of BTW. I can't prove that anyway, but I still fail to see how that's relevant when Gaga has called out fellow pop stars for things she didn't invent either.

Point being: if you're gonna call out Madonna for not being original, you're handling a very dangerous double-edged sword Just be aware of that. All the typical hater arguments for Madonna work just as good for Gaga.

So much bluster and deflection in this post. We're talking about Madonna here, not Gaga. If Gaga ever said she was entirely original, I would chuckle as well. She clearly has influences from Madonna herself to Bowie. The two are more similar than many people on here like to admit, except that Gaga has never outright stated that she is the mastermind behind everything she creates.

I fail to see why you are separating an artist from their message. If Madonna thinks she has dibs on the BTW message, that makes her look like even more of a fool. 

That controversy wasn't fake, because it happened and there was a courtroom battle. It was very much a real thing, given that the date of the kid's play on Youtube was a couple of years old by the time Get Lucky was released, and it wasn't just a few chords.

Furthermore, not everything that happened before the Internet's creation has been properly documented. It doesn't help that court settlements often include gag orders that prohibit people from further discussing the issue. That you fail to understand this underscores how little you know about the Western-biased proliferation of information on the Internet.

In your defense, I think it was Fairuz not Sabah. I often confuse the two. Flop Lebanese.

I'm honestly disappointed by your tone of condescension. Is this how you speak to everyone here, or anyone who dares to challenge your way of thinking?

 

[Didymus 34,379]

46 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

So much bluster and deflection in this post. We're talking about Madonna here, not Gaga. If Gaga ever said she was entirely original, I would chuckle as well. She clearly has influences from Madonna herself to Bowie. The two are more similar than many people on here like to admit, except that Gaga has never outright stated that she is the mastermind behind everything she creates.

I fail to see why you are separating an artist from their message. If Madonna thinks she has dibs on the BTW message, that makes her look like even more of a fool. 

That controversy wasn't fake, because it happened and there was a courtroom battle. It was very much a real thing, given that the date of the kid's play on Youtube was a couple of years old by the time Get Lucky was released, and it wasn't just a few chords.

Furthermore, not everything that happened before the Internet's creation has been properly documented. It doesn't help that court settlements often include gag orders that prohibit people from further discussing the issue. That you fail to understand this underscores how little you know about the Western-biased proliferation of information on the Internet.

In your defense, I think it was Fairuz not Sabah. I often confuse the two. Flop Lebanese.

I'm honestly disappointed by your tone of condescension. Is this how you speak to everyone here, or anyone who dares to challenge your way of thinking?

Madonna never said she was entirely original

In fact: she said she wasn't the best singer, she wasn't the best dancer and she knew that but didn't give a **** about it. So if anything, she herself has confirmed what people are saying in this thread in the late 80's already

And erm.. gurllllllll Madonna has been an absolute fighter in terms of gay rights, the breaking free of (female) identity, social equality, cultural equality,... You clearly don't know anything about her career if you have the balls to say that Madonna never did anything related to the "BTW message". Gaga is not just called a Madonna copycat for her fashion and performance gimmicks, she's also called that for building on Madonna's contributions to social change.

And no, I don't believe that if Madonna was nearly dragged in court and had to pay a couple of million for being a copycat, it wouldn't have made it on Western media outlets. Madonna's copy **** has been documented since the beginning, in whatever irrelevant country controversy occurred.

And it's not my meaning to be condescending Sorry if I gave off that impression. I just asked you why you thought Madonna was overrated in terms of originality and, in my opinion, you gave a completely irrational answer. You're not challenging my way of thinking, sadly. You're just painting an incomplete story for no reason. Madonna was never praised for being original, she never declared to be original, she has just as much of a reputation as Gaga of stealing/tributing, so yeah.. I just disagree.

But if you feel like I'm talking down to you just because I try to correct or contextualize some of your arguments I guess we should just stop discussing then

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

Honestly this thread brings out the worst in Gaga fans and haters. Although I kinda get why this thread was made considering  the let's nitpick Lady Gaga's face and lips thread that was made hours before by the same Stan who is now furiously defending Madonna from everyone to the point where he is laughing at everyone who doesn't share the same opinion as he has. But neither thread is necessary. Meanwhile Madonna and Gaga are taking pictures and getting along. Singing the same Lennon and Edith Piaf songs. Lol lets give the Stan war a rest. It's almost 2016. 

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

It would be hard to call her overrated, I hardly hear her spoken of at all 

[Didymus 34,379]

5 minutes ago, just4fun said:

Honestly this thread brings out the worst in Gaga fans and haters. Although I kinda get why this thread was made considering  the let's nitpick Lady Gaga's face and lips thread that was made hours before by the same Stan who is now furiously defending Madonna from everyone. But neither thread is necessary. Meanwhile Madonna and Gaga are taking pictures and getting along. Singing the same Lennon and Edith Piaf songs. Lol lets give the Stan war a rest. It's almost 2016. 

Ignoring the flamebait.

I'm not defending Madonna You have a problem with basic reading skills, my friend, in both threads. I only replied to two people here so cut the "from everyone" and I'm not exactly defending her (in my last post I just said she's not an original artist and shouldn't be called that - not something you'd expect from a Madonna stan/Gaga hater). That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not she's overrated. Even someone who hates Madonna, and there are examples in this thread, can defend her.

[Snow 1,582]

Whoot?! Absolutely not! More like underated. Anyone who thinks othervice should get themselves educated. Learn your damn history and open your eyes. She US The Queen of pop and will forever be. For a looong time she was bigger than ALL pop starlets combined, including Gaga.

1 minute ago, Tokyo Rose said:

It would be hard to call her overrated, I hardly hear her spoken of at all 

and yet she's been on every global news pretty much ALL The time, now for The Paris tribute.

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

Just now, Snow said:

and yet she's been on every global news pretty much ALL The time, now for The Paris tribute.

She's not in the news all the time in the US (the country she was born in and where she rose to fame)

[Snow 1,582]

Just now, Tokyo Rose said:

She's not in the news all the time in the US (the country she was born in and where she rose to fame)

And why would she be there ALL The time? But she's been alot this year. Besides US is one country in The world. 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

31 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Ignoring the flamebait.

I'm not defending Madonna You have a problem with basic reading skills, my friend, in both threads. I only replied to two people here so cut the "from everyone" and I'm not exactly defending her (in my last post I just said she's not an original artist and shouldn't be called that - not something you'd expect from a Madonna stan/Gaga hater). That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not she's overrated. Even someone who hates Madonna, and there are examples in this thread, can defend her.

 

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Laughable.

 

4 hours ago, Didymus said:

You're so embarrassing, it's not even funny anymore.

Flamebait? Anyways that's why I made my comment to see if we can stop making divisive threads. 

[Didymus 34,379]

2 minutes ago, just4fun said:

Flamebait? Anyways that's why I made my comment to see if we can stop making divisive threads. 

Clearly referring to me without naming me, also bringing up another thread and implying I'm a Gaga hater. That would qualify as flamebait, yes, most specifically because it's off-topic.

In any case, I didn't call Enigma embarrassing because he thinks Madonna is overrated. I called him embarrassing because he makes these threads routinely about every single female pop star except Gaga.

The other comment I called laughable, I stand by, simply because it was laughable.

I didn't make my lips/fillers/... thread to be divisive, in fact I made it because the subject was polarizing on the forum and many people were tired of seeing comments about it scattered all over the forum instead of in one place where only people who cared about the subject had to see them. I know you don't get that because you made no effort to read the OP or anything in the thread, really, but it sure makes your "so we can stop being divisive" argument look more hilarious than it already was, especially since you barged into my thread yourself, insulting me for no reason.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

19 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Clearly referring to me without naming me, also bringing up another thread and implying I'm a Gaga hater. That would qualify as flamebait, yes, most specifically because it's off-topic.

In any case, I didn't call Enigma embarrassing because he thinks Madonna is overrated. I called him embarrassing because he makes these threads routinely about every single female pop star except Gaga.

The other comment I called laughable, I stand by, simply because it was laughable.

I didn't make my lips/fillers/... thread to be divisive, in fact I made it because the subject was polarizing on the forum and many people were tired of seeing comments about it scattered all over the forum instead of in one place where only people who cared about the subject had to see them. I know you don't get that because you made no effort to read the OP or anything in the thread, really, but it sure makes your "so we can stop being divisive" argument look more hilarious than it already was, especially since you barged into my thread yourself, insulting me for no reason.

Meh... So tired of reading paragraphs of explanations as to why you were laughing at people's opinions. Madonna is an icon Gaga is an icon. They are getting along. So should we. 

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, just4fun said:

Meh... So tired of reading paragraphs of explanations as to why you were laughing at people's opinions. Madonna is an icon Gaga is an icon. They are getting along. So should we. 

Well, at least I could get an admission out of you that you don't even bother to read correctly.

But unless you change that awful attitude, we're not gonna get along sis. I mean lmfao hear yourself. If you want us to get along, then maybe you should stop trying to call me out for things I never did. Jesus.

[Bellatrix 34,639]

Pressed M haters are fun. They know she slays, that's why they feel the need to make these **** threads  

 

[AJH219 4,448]

To even have this discussion on a fan site dedicated to one of the most overrated pop stars of the 21st is a joke within itself. Facts are facts, Madonna is the most iconic performer to ever grace God's green earth. No one has been able to match her intelligence, her creativity, or her freaking stamina; nor will they ever I predict. The best thing I ever did was expose myself to the brilliance that is Madonna. My life has never been the same, tbh. Call me in 33 years when Gaga releases an album that surpasses any of M's albums (and that's including the disastrous Hard Candy); you won't because it'll never happen. So enjoy staying pressed while myself and other fans of M ride the waves and enjoy stanning for a real iconic artist. 

[Shadow 6,355]

Enough