PETA protest at Gaga's car outside Billboard Event

[Born To Slay 10,996]

Just now, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

I'm not basing morality off animals, I'm basing genetics... as a highly evolved species, we can determine what's right and wrong, and have the ability to do what's right, ya know, like letting someone consume and enjoy meat if that's their choice.. you can't brow beat someone into having the exact same opinion as you. 

If we can determine what's right and wrong so objectively, why are there so many moral arguments through out history? Why were so many awful things legal for so long? Why is there a large group of people that wanna ban Muslims even now? Our genetics don't seem to be helping us not hurt one another, society isn't really that fair and ethical. It's cruel as hell. And you "enjoying meat" is finacing heinous acts of violence towards animals. It's not like your choice has no negative effects. I'm not brow beating you. When you make a statement publicly, of course people that disagree might respond, just like if you say something racist, sexist or anything else ist, people might object and respond.

[prince 4,688]

[PMKKARDASHiAN 8,570]

1 minute ago, Born To Slay said:

If we can determine what's right and wrong so objectively, why are there so many moral arguments through out history? Why were so many awful things legal for so long? Why is there a large group of people that wanna ban Muslims even now? Our genetics don't seem to be helping us not hurt one another, society isn't really that fair and ethical. It's cruel as hell. And you "enjoying meat" is finacing heinous acts of violence towards animals. It's not like your choice has no negative effects. I'm not brow beating you. When you make a statement publicly, of course people that disagree might respond, just like if you say something racist, sexist or anything else ist, people might object and respond.

I agree, but the topic is PETA...not slavery, Muslims, or racism. While yes they can be related to a degree, this was not the topic at hand. I think PETA radicals are ridiculous, while I support some of their causes. Cruel and inhumane torture of animals for consumption, if I could stop it I would, but that doesn't detract me from enjoying what I eat? 

[Didymus 34,379]

8 minutes ago, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

Receipts please because everything I've ever been taught or read is that we are carnivorous. I'm not even trying to argue but if I'm wrong, show me some facts. 

You do know that carnivores ONLY eat meat (or predominantly), right?

You never eat any vegetables or fruits?

Anyway, here are some receipts:

Wikpedia ( )

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

https://books.google.nl/books?id=RqAraOM_CKgC&pg=PA243&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false

Even the stereotype of the extinct Neanderthal being carnivorous is proven wrong last year:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140625-neanderthal-poop-diet-ancient-science-archaeology/

[Born To Slay 10,996]

3 minutes ago, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

Receipts please because everything I've ever been taught or read is that we are carnivorous. I'm not even trying to argue but if I'm wrong, show me some facts. 

At the core of it, I think PETA means well, but the radical stand points they've adopted are far too off putting, so while I agree with some of what PETA stands for, I don't agree with all of it, and who gave anyone the right to tell them what they can and cannot consume? Like what? 

Oh, I agree the schools are ****ed up. As a high school student, I have to expose their bias every other ****ing day.

Also, PETA, nor am I, isn't telling you CANT eat animals products. You obviously can, it's legal and available. They're saying people shouldn't eat them or wear them or anything like that because they're very cruel to animals and if we don't need to them survive and be healthy, we should go without those little convinces to better our treatment of those at our mercy.

[PMKKARDASHiAN 8,570]

Just now, Didymus said:

You do know that carnivores ONLY eat meat (or predominantly), right?

You never eat any vegetables or fruits?

Anyway, here are some receipts:

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

https://books.google.nl/books?id=RqAraOM_CKgC&pg=PA243&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false

Even the stereotype of the extinct Neanderthal being carnivorous is proven wrong last year:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140625-neanderthal-poop-diet-ancient-science-archaeology/

Not sure if you caught my edit before you posted this. But it's there. 

Thanks for the receipts, most of this is new to me because I've been out of high school for almost a decade now and no college course has expands new information on the dietary habits of historic man. 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

2 minutes ago, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

I agree, but the topic is PETA...not slavery, Muslims, or racism. While yes they can be related to a degree, this was not the topic at hand. I think PETA radicals are ridiculous, while I support some of their causes. Cruel and inhumane torture of animals for consumption, if I could stop it I would, but that doesn't detract me from enjoying what I eat? 

My point there was just that our society isn't really humane and morality isn't 100% objective. And you can help stop the torture by not participating in it. 

[PMKKARDASHiAN 8,570]

2 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

Oh, I agree the schools are ****ed up. As a high school student, I have to expose their bias every other ****ing day.

Also, PETA, nor am I, isn't telling you CANT eat animals products. You obviously can, it's legal and available. They're saying people shouldn't eat them or wear them or anything like that because they're very cruel to animals and if we don't need to them survive and be healthy, we should go without those little convinces to better our treatment of those at our mercy.

 

Just now, Born To Slay said:

My point there was just that our society isn't really humane and morality isn't 100% objective. And you can help stop the torture by not participating in it. 

Perhaps we are arguing different degrees of Peta standpoints. While now I can see where you're coming from, I still think a person shouldn't tell you what to consume or wear, but inform you of what goes on behind the scenes, and let you make the decision for yourself. Like the Westboro baptist church wanted to spread the word of their beliefs in the most heinous ways, Peta picketing and protesting in the manners I've witnessed, are just as deplorable as the activities that are occuring that they are defending

[Didymus 34,379]

13 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

Also, PETA, nor am I, isn't telling you CANT eat animals products. You obviously can, it's legal and available. They're saying people shouldn't eat them or wear them or anything like that because they're very cruel to animals and if we don't need to them survive and be healthy, we should go without those little convinces to better our treatment of those at our mercy.

Well, that's why they're so unbelievable, though

Our society just doesn't work that way. How the hell can you purify the food industry without purifying everything else? Doesn't the same "if you don't need it to survive, go without it" argument apply everywhere in human society? Because it does, but people don't give a **** about that. They don't want to survive, they wanna live and they think that consuming means living.

If you're not gonna tackle thàt underlying pattern, I don't see the point of calling for change in one area of society just because animals look so cute and innocent and helpless, 'cause even if you succeed, there will still be similar issues you ignored even though they involve actual people. I can't help but laugh at people who are proud of not eating meat while they don't pay attention to any other dimension in their lives. I'm not saying everyone needs to be perfect and change the world, I'm just saying that the underlying arguments of these people and organizations like PETA rarely make any sense which is why they'll never command much attention and support.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

Just now, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

 

Perhaps we are arguing different degrees of Peta standpoints. While now I can see where you're coming from, I still think a person shouldn't tell you what to consume or wear, but inform you of what goes on behind the scenes, and let you make the decision for yourself. Like the Westboro baptist church wanted to spread the word of their beliefs in the most heinous ways, Peta picketing and protesting in the manners I've witnessed, are just as deplorable as the activities that are occuring that they are defending

If u wanna criticize PETA for some of their demos, I agree some were kinda ****ed up. I don't identify with them for many reasons, they're not the best organiztion. 

And really as far as not telling you what you can and can't consume, I think most ARAs take the approach you advocate. I've never in my life told a person, you can't eat this or wear that. That's just a bad approach to talking to people. I simply talk to them about why they should consider a vegan life style and if they try to argue why eating meat is healthier or whatever, I'll shoot them down in a respectful way. Some of the violent radicals have hurt our rep somewhat. Most animal rights activists are peaceful and I don't consider ARAs that hurt people to be true vegans. Veganism is about not causing harm to sentient beings, how can you be vegan and hurt people? Doesn't make sense to me.

[PMKKARDASHiAN 8,570]

1 minute ago, Born To Slay said:

If u wanna criticize PETA for some of their demos, I agree some were kinda ****ed up. I don't identify with them for many reasons, they're not the best organiztion. 

And really as far as not telling you what you can and can't consume, I think most ARAs take the approach you advocate. I've never in my life told a person, you can't eat this or wear that. That's just a bad approach to talking to people. I simply talk to them about why they should consider a vegan life style and if they try to argue why eating meat is healthier or whatever, I'll shoot them down in a respectful way. Some of the violent radicals have hurt our rep somewhat. Most animal rights activists are peaceful and I don't consider ARAs that hurt people to be true vegans. Veganism is about not causing harm to sentient beings, how can you be vegan and hurt people? Doesn't make sense to me.

You don't have to shoot anyone down to make a point. I went vegetarian about 5 years ago because I saw the extent of what animal cruelty, I did it for a couple months, decided it wasn't for me, and went back. I know what happens, and while it's sad, I'm going to continue to consume meat. And while I appreciate what you and others are trying to do, there's a way to talk to someone without attacking them (which I felt is what you were doing with you intital quote). At this point we can just agree to disagree. 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well, that's why they're so unbelievable, though

Our society just doesn't work that way. How the hell can you purify the food industry without purifying everything else? Doesn't the same "if you don't need it to survive, go without it" argument apply everywhere in human society? Because it does, but people don't give a **** about that. They don't want to survive, they wanna live and they think that consuming means living.

If you're not gonna tackle thàt underlying pattern, I don't see the point of calling for change in one area of society just because animals look so cute and innocent and helpless, 'cause even if you succeed, there will still be similar issues you ignored even though they involve actual people. I can't help but laugh at people who are proud of not eating meat while they don't pay attention to any other dimension in their lives. I'm not saying everyone needs to be perfect and change the world, I'm just saying that the underlying arguments of these people and organizations like PETA rarely make any sense which is why they'll never command much attention and support.

I agree people shouldn't just go against meat. People in general really need to look at their habits and question the ethical value. This conversation was about animal products but it's far from the only thing that needs to be changed. What else did u have in mind? I live without other things non related to animals but maybe you'll open my eyes to something else.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

2 minutes ago, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

You don't have to shoot anyone down to make a point. I went vegetarian about 5 years ago because I saw the extent of what animal cruelty, I did it for a couple months, decided it wasn't for me, and went back. I know what happens, and while it's sad, I'm going to continue to consume meat. And while I appreciate what you and others are trying to do, there's a way to talk to someone without attacking them (which I felt is what you were doing with you intital quote). At this point we can just agree to disagree. 

Well shoot someone down just meant using what I know to counter argue they're statement, I don't mean like talk to them like they're a piece of ****. 

And I'm sorry if my first response offended you. It's wasn't intentional.

 

[Didymus 34,379]

7 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

I agree people shouldn't just go against meat. People in general really need to look at their habits and question the ethical value. This conversation was about animal products but it's far from the only thing that needs to be changed. What else did u have in mind? I live without other things non related to animals but maybe you'll open my eyes to something else.

I have no idea

I'm personally very confused about what I should and shouldn't do in an ethical sense. I mean, a very cruel part of me says: "When an animal/person dies, even in a horrid way, they don't keep feeling the pain endlessly, they die and the memory is gone and poof, that's it, why should I feel bad about it?"

Then again, I am absolutely against the consumption culture we live in. I guess not really because I care about victims of it, but because.. I'm a victim I'm allowing myself to be brainwashed and to believe that I need things (not just physical) for me to be someone or to be happy. I'm the slave to the system, my freedom being sacrificed just like a pig at the slaughterhouse, and for the same reason: profit.

I think organizations can build a much stronger case if they tackled that a bit more: how we're all victims to the system and there's the possibility of us (and the planet) being much better off if we just stopped doing all this random ****. But I find that thàt is much less found because those so-called charity organizations actually also make huge amounts of profit and have some dubious workings as well.

So I don't know.. I'm very confused about the whole thing. And I kinda like that place because it keeps me from thinking I found the truth or whatever. I just hope one day I can figure it all out y'know

[Born To Slay 10,996]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I have no idea

I'm personally very confused about what I should and shouldn't do in an ethical sense. I mean, a very cruel part of me says: "When an animal/person dies, even in a horrid way, they don't keep feeling the pain endlessly, they die and the memory is gone and poof, that's it, why should I feel bad about it?"

Then again, I am absolutely against the consumption culture we live in. I guess not really because I care about victims of it, but because.. I'm a victim I'm allowing myself to be brainwashed and to believe that I need things (not just physical) for me to be someone or to be happy. I'm the slave to the system, my freedom being sacrificed just like a pig at the slaughterhouse, and for the same reason: profit.

I think organizations can build a much stronger case if they tackled that a bit more: how we're all victims to the system and there's the possibility of us (and the planet) being much better off if we just stopped doing all this random ****. But I find that thàt is much less found because those so-called charity organizations actually also make huge amounts of profit and have some dubious workings as well.

So I don't know.. I'm very confused about the whole thing. And I kinda like that place because it keeps me from thinking I found the truth or whatever. I just hope one day I can figure it all out y'know

I really like what you just wrote. I agree with you that we are victims of our society in one way or another and a lot of times we r victimized by people that have a lot to gain from it. Fortunately, I think that we can choose in many cases to not be sucked in to it. For example, our looks obsessed culture has tricked many people into thinking they're ugly and then cosmetic companies sell them **** that temporarily fixes the issue. They've been brainwashed. If we look at society as logically and objectively as we can, we can see thru much if the stuff they force on us, even tho it's kinda hard sometimes because we r all brainwash victims. 

As far as what we should do, I personally think we should try not to consume products that come from the suffering of others to the best of our ability. I know there are things we truly can't live without and that's a different story but there are ways to buy close to ethical, it takes creativity tho.