How in anyway is ARTPOP flopping Gaga's fault?

[ARTPOPdidntflop 3,987]

2 hours ago, Yanko said:

a song about bottoming was never going to be a hit 

Wait do you think it's literal meaning is bottoming?  

[arthurhmangum 4,408]

She got "lazy" to keep fighting. 

[REALITY 76,254]

I absolutely agree with the O.P. Just because ARTPOP wasn't as successful as albums like Born This Way or The Fame doesn't mean it's Gaga's fault at all. In my opinion, ARTPOP is the album that defines who Lady Gaga is. She's in love with art, fashion, and music and wants to use those different types of art to convey important messages to not only her fans, but people in general.

It breaks my heart to know that people just hated the album without giving it a try, or without seeing the true message behind the album. This is who Lady Gaga is, and it's in no way her fault for the album's "flop" (sorry, I just hate using that word). 

[Bloody 64,631]

So blame it on the night, don't blame it on her.  

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

5 hours ago, Didymus said:

A supportive label that manipulates her voice against her will. That makes sense.

I'm not stating any fact except that Gaga admitted that she didn't do what she wanted for ARTPOP and that she tried to please all the wrong people. That is a fact, since that is literally what she's saying in our most recent interview. It doesn't mean she doesn't love ARTPOP (but that's not even what this thread is about so can we knock it off with that boring subject pls), it just means that she recognizes that she hasn't been utilizing all of her gifts and that she has to express her artistic self first and foremost - meaning (and only THIS is my interpretation) that especially ARTPOP, since that project was supposedly all about brave creativity and whatever, didn't live up to even her own expectations, let alone that of the disappointed fans who blame her for it (as in, like I said on the first page: because she didn't do what she preached).

So I wanna tie this nicely again to my first post, before people will think I'm hating on her again: what I see mostly in people blaming her for ARTPOP "flopping" is that the music was not a reflection of her talent or creativity. And yes, I think it's an undisputable fact that she admitted that in her most recent interview and everyone who thinks it's not is just lying for no reason since admitting that does not mean she doesn't love ARTPOP and it does not mean she didn't use ARTPOP as a creative vehicle at all.

Well said. And another thing to keep in mind is that since day one Gaga has been conflating the grander "ARTPOP" concept with the album itself. When she said ARTPOP was misunderstood she was clearly talking about the concept and not the music given that she immediately went on to explain the soup can concept and how simple it really is. When it comes to the album there's literally nothing of any depth or complexity to misunderstand in the first place. But I can see how that could be tough to swallow for some fans who took "ARTPOP could mean anything" the full distance and started applying it to the album in embarrassingly hyperbolic ways  

[Pity Party 743]

Wow people will still be talking about ARTPOP's flopping in 80 years. 

[Son of Venus 473]

She was a mess too. The album isn't as artistic as BTW or TFM and with its title people were expecting something more artistic than Donatella,JnD etc. However i can't really blame her for this. I'm pretty sure Interscope made her scrap her original idea and come up with something more mainstream. 

The "Katy won over Gaga" thing clearly messed with her head and she seemed desperate for a hit leading to the DWUW mv mess. 

She made many mistakes but if i were in her position, unable to put out the art i want, being abandoned by my friend and manager, and reading hundreds of articles everyday about how i suck , i'd probably give up.

 

[Haroon 49,685]

It's not all Gaga's fault but she's not faultless either  I'm sure multiple people were involved with things not going the best way possible  It can't be pinned down to one person or one group

[Whispering 18,865]

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

A supportive label that manipulates her voice against her will. That makes sense.

I'm not stating any fact except that Gaga admitted that she didn't do what she wanted for ARTPOP and that she tried to please all the wrong people. That is a fact, since that is literally what she's saying in our most recent interview. It doesn't mean she doesn't love ARTPOP (but that's not even what this thread is about so can we knock it off with that boring subject pls), it just means that she recognizes that she hasn't been utilizing all of her gifts and that she has to express her artistic self first and foremost - meaning (and only THIS is my interpretation) that especially ARTPOP, since that project was supposedly all about brave creativity and whatever, didn't live up to even her own expectations, let alone that of the disappointed fans who blame her for it (as in, like I said on the first page: because she didn't do what she preached).

So I wanna tie this nicely again to my first post, before people will think I'm hating on her again: what I see mostly in people blaming her for ARTPOP "flopping" is that the music was not a reflection of her talent or creativity. And yes, I think it's an undisputable fact that she admitted that in her most recent interview and everyone who thinks it's not is just lying for no reason since admitting that does not mean she doesn't love ARTPOP and it does not mean she didn't use ARTPOP as a creative vehicle at all.

It's not an indie label, so there are incredible amounts of money tied up in and tied to their major players. Interscope is first and foremost a business, and it is about the money first with every artist signed with a major label. Gaga understands this and knows that like every other artist, she has to work within the system. That doesn't mean that there are some aspects of that process that she dislikes. She has constantly said that Interscope is a supportive label, but that doesn't mean she agrees with everything that comes with being signed to a major. 

Again, that doesn't mean that she believes she produced subpar material on ARTPOP. She didn't say that and that's what you were claiming to be a fact. 

When people here talk about ARTPOP flopping, it's mostly because it didn't have enough hits and good enough numbers for them to run to places like ATRL and to Twitter and create the drama they need so much in their lives. The fans here were loving the music until it didn't do as well on the charts and sell as well as they needed it to for bragging rights. Then, they changed their tune. 

No, people don't interpret it the way you are interpret it. That's not lying, that is people having different opinions and interpretations. Your individual speculation is not anymore a truth than anyone else's here. As I said from the first, I don't agree with your opinion and others don't as well. That doesn't mean you can't have that opinion, just that it isn't a fact and those who disagree with you aren't "lying". 

[REALITY 76,254]

7 hours ago, Whispering said:

More comments from others:

She's certainly not saying that she hates ARTPOP, she's expressed numerous times that she absolutely adores ARTPOP, in my opinion, it's this album—as of now—that truly defines her as "Lady Gaga": using music as her form of artistic media to express her thoughts into the world. 
 

I think what she means by this quote is that she just didn't want to work on the piano, and now looking back on the album. She was heavily using beats (i.e. Swine), and didn't use the piano as often (i.e. Dope and Gypsy).

No, she doesn't hate the album itself. Maybe she was disappointed with the management of the era and the bad outcome they got but I'm sure she loves the album.

She said several times she loves ARTPOP and that it was misunderstood by people.

using ARTPOP as a channel for her frustration make it an artistic statement, even if its a different one that the artistic statement she might have otherwise made.

 

 

I appreciate you quoting me 

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

I think Gaga is partly to blame. However, I actually don't make a big deal out of it because I know she went through alot. I dislike ARTPOP but knew from the start things weren't right and as soon as she released her album I chose to see it as a blip way back then because I knew she wasn't herself. **** happens.

But she didn't promote her record properly, she didn't put in enough effort like she did with previous eras. Fair enough she wasn't as proud of the work and I get that. But it just felt like she was rushing to get through the era and it's not fun for the fans when the artist isn't happy and standing by their work. 

I know I sound like I'm contradicting myself and perhaps I am but its as though the professional side of Gaga disappeared. Her heart wasn't in it anymore and I get that but the show goes on. I do feel sorry for her though because I deal with depression and anxiety on a daily basis. She still powered through with the world watching and I admire her and respect her for that. 

[Didymus 34,379]

4 hours ago, Whispering said:

It's not an indie label, so there are incredible amounts of money tied up in and tied to their major players. Interscope is first and foremost a business, and it is about the money first with every artist signed with a major label. Gaga understands this and knows that like every other artist, she has to work within the system. That doesn't mean that there are some aspects of that process that she dislikes. She has constantly said that Interscope is a supportive label, but that doesn't mean she agrees with everything that comes with being signed to a major. 

Again, that doesn't mean that she believes she produced subpar material on ARTPOP. She didn't say that and that's what you were claiming to be a fact. 

When people here talk about ARTPOP flopping, it's mostly because it didn't have enough hits and good enough numbers for them to run to places like ATRL and to Twitter and create the drama they need so much in their lives. The fans here were loving the music until it didn't do as well on the charts and sell as well as they needed it to for bragging rights. Then, they changed their tune. 

No, people don't interpret it the way you are interpret it. That's not lying, that is people having different opinions and interpretations. Your individual speculation is not anymore a truth than anyone else's here. As I said from the first, I don't agree with your opinion and others don't as well. That doesn't mean you can't have that opinion, just that it isn't a fact and those who disagree with you aren't "lying". 

What I said that was a fact was that Gaga said that only now (as of 2014) is she fully realizing that her talent has to shine through in her work first, to do what she wants instead of trying to keep up with what everyone else wants. This is something she literally said and there is no single possibility of interpreting it any other way.

Which means that she is implicitly admitting that ARTPOP was not an expression of her true talent (which she also literally admitted in the piano segments: "You're too talented for this ****"), which is why fans label it as subpar. Obviously what's subpar is absolutely down to interpretation, but I never claimed it to be otherwise For the fans who take/took issue with Gaga's lack of artistic commitment, the album is subpar and since Gaga has admitted that she compromised her vision, this is an admittance of what those fans have believed in 2013 or earlier (that's what I meant with my first post, which I explained more completely on the second page).

The only thing up for interpretation is if Gaga agrees with those fans or not. If she agrees with them (which we don't know) she herself sees the music as subpar because she could/did not fully commit artistically for various reasons. If she does not agree with them, apparently she is aware that the album did not show her true talent and was a compromise of her vision in numerous ways (this is not up for debate, if you're gonna quote me and say that this isn't what she said, don't bother 'cause you're gonna have to read her interview again, entirely), but in spite of that she still doesn't think the album is below her capacities. Which makes no sense. So yeah, I do believe I make the more convincing case here.

Once again: I am not saying Gaga doesn't love the album or didn't use it as a creative vehicle, I am saying (since my first post - how many times before you get it) that fans have blamed her lack of artistic commitment as what made ARTPOP as an album and an era so horrible (not her commercial success or inadequate promo or whatever ideas other people come up with, as noted in the OP for example) - Gaga has now admitted that she indeed had no sufficient artistic commitment (due to different reasons), which does not mean that Gaga admits the album is subpar in general, but it means that Gaga acknowledges that the album is not an expression of her true talent, which means (referring to my first post) that she "admitted" what those fans have said for two years now. Whether you think that makes the album actually subpar or not (I was only speaking about how those fans see it, incl. me) is not even relevant for this thread.

How is this going so difficult omg. I thought I made a very basic point.

[HEARTHUNTER 7,611]

Okay, let's put things back in perspective : ARTPOP never flopped. It didn't sell as much as her previous albums but enough to sh*t on her contemporaries.

I think that you shouldn't worry about it anymore guys, just let it go. Let pressed success-stans rage.

[androiduser 7,438]

she wrote the material and the album has her name on it, so she has to take responsibility.

That's like saying that the success of The Fame wasn't her merit, because she had a great team and the media was supporting her.

 

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

Sha has take responsibility for what she HAD control over...and that was her music...the quality and concept

The singles that were chosen really hurt the flow of the era and Gaga wasn't 100% with the direction the era was going...

The singles weren't great...better songs should've been chosen and Gaga didn't really have say in it...

Applause was only the first single cuz of Jimmy...she wasn't even planning on having it on the album...

Venus was supposes to be the second single and she seemed especially excited to promote it but DWUW mass downloads fooled the label into thinking it was popular...it was just fans downloading all at once...

Overall more blame goes on her label for lack of promo, Troy leaving, and poor single choices...but Gaga can't be innocent of the ENTIRE era...like...