Dutch Politican: Paris is Israels fault

[Mr Ricky 9,089]

36 minutes ago, amenvodka said:

They're trying to say that they lack the intellectual capacity to realize that one very specific and very stupid person is not representative of an entire country.

Then he should have only mentioned the Dutch chairman. 

And who is They? Only one guy gave his word about the conflict.

[Luc 4,776]

I somewhat agree. Misleading title by the way. He says the extremism is eventually also connected to muslim extremism. Also means that it's one of many causes. Connected means that there are connections, so he doesn't say it's the root cause or even one of the biggest causes. Eventually means that it's like that in the end, it helps but does not direcrly cause it.

 

Why I agree? Many muslims really feel that all muslims are their friends and brothers. If their 'brothers' are attacked, they get emotional. Most will see Israel and the US as the root cause for this, and form anti-America feelings due to this. They see it as in: "The West is attacking our brothers." This is one of the important reasons why pepple radicalize..

[TiphEret 1,320]

But the terrorists who talk to the hostage in Paris during the assault were pretty clear that it was about the action of the French government in Syria...

[uo111 5,282]

20 minutes ago, Luc said:

I somewhat agree. Misleading title by the way. He says the extremism is eventually also connected to muslim extremism. Also means that it's one of many causes. Connected means that there are connections, so he doesn't say it's the root cause or even one of the biggest causes. Eventually means that it's like that in the end, it helps but does not direcrly cause it.

 

Why I agree? Many muslims really feel that all muslims are their friends and brothers. If their 'brothers' are attacked, they get emotional. Most will see Israel and the US as the root cause for this, and form anti-America feelings due to this. They see it as in: "The West is attacking our brothers." This is one of the important reasons why pepple radicalize..

Let's not pretend they hate Israel because of Palestine.

They've hated Israel since the beginning, and have waged war on Israel several times. Palestine is usprimarily a way to convince Westerners that Israel is the bad guy and terrorist are just misunderstood. The extremism and terrorism caused the Palestine-Israel conflict, not the other way around. 

[Luc 4,776]

2 hours ago, uo111 said:

Let's not pretend they hate Israel because of Palestine.

They've hated Israel since the beginning, and have waged war on Israel several times. Palestine is usprimarily a way to convince Westerners that Israel is the bad guy and terrorist are just misunderstood. The extremism and terrorism caused the Palestine-Israel conflict, not the other way around. 

That's a whole different topic. What I'm talking about is the brotherhood and solidarity that many muslims feel for eachother, and how emotional some muslims can get when it comes to topics like the Palestine conflict, the Syrian war, the Afghan war, the Iraq war, the Yemen war, etc. These emotions can be turned into hate towards the West, because many see the West as the cause of all these conflicts (I don't know why but many muslims love their conspiracy theories). I see this all as a big cause for why it's muslims that often become so radical, and not christians. 

Another cause is the oppression that many muslims feel, not necessarily for themselves, but in society as a whole. This is especially prevalent in West-European countries, where many muslim youth feel mistreated. It's also the cause (I think) that so many IS members are Chechens.

[Giorno Giovanna 3,178]

fault? it's the fault of those individuals who became murderers and massacred people

they took their weapons and decided to act in such a non-human way

[uo111 5,282]

8 hours ago, Luc said:

That's a whole different topic. What I'm talking about is the brotherhood and solidarity that many muslims feel for eachother, and how emotional some muslims can get when it comes to topics like the Palestine conflict, the Syrian war, the Afghan war, the Iraq war, the Yemen war, etc. These emotions can be turned into hate towards the West, because many see the West as the cause of all these conflicts (I don't know why but many muslims love their conspiracy theories). I see this all as a big cause for why it's muslims that often become so radical, and not christians. 

Another cause is the oppression that many muslims feel, not necessarily for themselves, but in society as a whole. This is especially prevalent in West-European countries, where many muslim youth feel mistreated. It's also the cause (I think) that so many IS members are Chechens.

That's pretty normal. It's why we react strongly when France is attacked and don't really care about any other place. It isn't limited to just Muslims, it's not stronger for Muslims, and it certainly doesn't cause people to become terrorists. The primary difference is that Western countries have strong governments (which means more stability and education), a (more) unified people and good economies, so it's people are less likely to be swayed.

These terrorist leaders are more like cult leaders who use religion and propaganda as a tools to control their members and fear as a tool to control the populations around them. They can also draw in people, especially younger people, who feel isolated from the rest of society. These cult leaders likely have some serious mental problems of their own, but cults themselves are not anything new, even terrorist ones. This situation isn't caused by something that's never been seen before. When you put people in a position that makes them easily manipulated, someone will manipulate them. It has happened to all sorts of groups (the Nazis were Christian of course).

[Luc 4,776]

5 hours ago, uo111 said:

That's pretty normal. It's why we react strongly when France is attacked and don't really care about any other place. It isn't limited to just Muslims, it's not stronger for Muslims, and it certainly doesn't cause people to become terrorists. The primary difference is that Western countries have strong governments (which means more stability and education), a (more) unified people and good economies, so it's people are less likely to be swayed.

These terrorist leaders are more like cult leaders who use religion and propaganda as a tools to control their members and fear as a tool to control the populations around them. They can also draw in people, especially younger people, who feel isolated from the rest of society. These cult leaders likely have some serious mental problems of their own, but cults themselves are not anything new, even terrorist ones. This situation isn't caused by something that's never been seen before. When you put people in a position that makes them easily manipulated, someone will manipulate them. It has happened to all sorts of groups (the Nazis were Christian of course).

But the refugee crisis and Paris attacks do actually make some people emotional enough to radicalize and eventually put a asylum centre on fire (for example). And I want to stress that this brotherhood is felt very strongly by most muslims. Also, money and education isn't really connected. In the end, wealth is relative and if the peoplw around you are richer than you are you will still feel poor (eventhough you might bw in the top 10% of the world). There are relatively more Swedes, Belgians, etc fighting for Daesh than many other (muslim) countries, and that while only ~5% of the population of the former two are muslim.

[christinahoney 383]

22 hours ago, amenvodka said:

22 hours ago, Mr Ricky said:

 

22 hours ago, amenvodka said:

They're trying to say that they lack the intellectual capacity to realize that one very specific and very stupid person is not representative of an entire country.

I was born in the NL so I can accurately judge, thx. I hear this kinda opinion a lot around Rotterdam unfortunately.

Edit: How on earth do you remove quotes. XD Did not mean to quote Ricky.

[uo111 5,282]

8 hours ago, Luc said:

But the refugee crisis and Paris attacks do actually make some people emotional enough to radicalize and eventually put a asylum centre on fire (for example). And I want to stress that this brotherhood is felt very strongly by most muslims. Also, money and education isn't really connected. In the end, wealth is relative and if the peoplw around you are richer than you are you will still feel poor (eventhough you might bw in the top 10% of the world). There are relatively more Swedes, Belgians, etc fighting for Daesh than many other (muslim) countries, and that while only ~5% of the population of the former two are muslim.

I don't know what to tell you about your "muslim brotherhood" theory except that it isn't logical.

The wealth thing is true, but kind of misses the point. It has to do with precieved inequalities. 

And education makes a huge difference. :shrug: 

[Luc 4,776]

41 minutes ago, uo111 said:

I don't know what to tell you about your "muslim brotherhood" theory except that it isn't logical.

The wealth thing is true, but kind of misses the point. It has to do with precieved inequalities. 

And education makes a huge difference. :shrug: 

The muslim 'brotherhood' is indeed just a theory... but I do feel that it's really felt. See it as a form of nationalism, 'our own people first' mentality, but then pan-national.

[uo111 5,282]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

The muslim 'brotherhood' is indeed just a theory... but I do feel that it's really felt. See it as a form of nationalism, 'our own people first' mentality, but then pan-national.

Well I do get that. But as a cause of radicalism, I don't see it. So many groups have the same feelings. You could say black people should become radicalized extremist in America. If just a sense of community and unfairness caused it, they would have by now.