87-year old jailed for Holocaust denial in Germany

[Melech 9,900]

25 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

No.

People need to move on from the Holocaust already. It was a horrible time in human history but it's been over 60 years.

This is idiotic and borderline fascist.

Should move on? How should I move one seeing the numbers on my grandparents arms? How should I move one when for Jews outside of Israel there is always a threat? How should I move on that there was 3 deadly terrorist attacks on Jews this year in Europe? Tell me how should I move on that affected my family and still does? 

[Goosey 3,017]

2 hours ago, amenvodka said:

Because bill #1 of the German constitution is

"Human dignity shall be inviolable."

You are delusional as f*ck if you think that your petty freedom of insulting people is more important than somebody's right to not be slandered, defamed and live a peaceful life.

I couldn't care what the German constitution says. It's clearly substandard when it comes to freedom of speech. They are trying to protect society at the expense of individual freedoms.

Germany has a history of being rigid and controlling. It doesn't matter if it's the Kaiser, the Nazis, the Stasi or the current regime. I'm just glad I don't live there.

[Melech 9,900]

9 minutes ago, Goosey said:

I couldn't care what the German constitution says. It's clearly substandard when it comes to freedom of speech. They are trying to protect society at the expense of individual freedoms.

Germany has a history of being rigid and controlling. It doesn't matter if it's the Kaiser, the Nazis, the Stasi or the current regime. I'm just glad I don't live there.

We are also glad you don't live here  

 

[Goosey 3,017]

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

We are also glad you don't live here  

Because it would increase your taxes?

[Supersonic 49,376]

20 minutes ago, Goosey said:

Because it would increase your taxes?

No, it's because you are ignorant and you have a long history of masquerading your racist & s-xist beliefs and opinions as freedom of speech.

[Goosey 3,017]

2 minutes ago, amenvodka said:

No, it's because you are ignorant and you have a long history of masquerading your racist & s-xist beliefs and opinions as freedom of speech.

I don't have racist and s-xist beliefs. You have a long history of accusing people of having racist and s-xist beliefs because they support the right of others to express their racist and s-xist beliefs. 

[Supersonic 49,376]

5 minutes ago, Goosey said:

I don't have racist and s-xist beliefs. You have a long history of accusing people of having racist and s-xist beliefs because they support the right of others to express their racist and s-xist beliefs. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-experience/201304/how-stop-playing-the-victim-game

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

Should move on? How should I move one seeing the numbers on my grandparents arms? How should I move one when for Jews outside of Israel there is always a threat? How should I move on that there was 3 deadly terrorist attacks on Jews this year in Europe? Tell me how should I move on that affected my family and still does? 

First of all, I'm sorry for what your grandparents had to go through. It's nobody's place to tell them how they should feel about it.

If there's ANYONE who understands what Jewish people have gone through, it's Lebanese Christians.

Genocide? Check.

Always under threat? Check.

Target of terrorist attacks? Check.

However, it's not their place either to tell how anyone else should feel about things, and should not be the government's place either to impose it especially when it has no potential for societal damage.

What the Jewish people faced is beyond horrible, but it is hardly unique to them. Why are they deserving of special rights that extend to allowing people to be imprisoned for having controversial opinions about them?

As an a--logy, millions of women are raped yearly. Do we imprison those who say that women can't get raped?

It's an idiotic opinion, but it should not be banned.

While banning the denial of the Holocaust fresh after the war may have made sense given the need to educate the brainwashed population of the atrocity of their crimes, there is literally ZERO harm done by anyone who is stupid enough to deny it today because it has NO societal impact.

Furthermore, denying the Holocaust is hardly hate speech. It's the denial of an event in human history. While the Jews were the major group of victims, other religious AND secular groups were persecuted as well.

Hate speech is verbally assaulting a group by using their own identity against them. It's hate speech to call LGBT people pedophiles. It's not hate speech to say that LGBT people were never persecuted in history.

See the difference?

If the Jewish organizations in Germany had any self-respect, they'd call for the dismissal of these ridiculous charges because I believe they are better than that. This woman is clearly too old to have her opinions changed, and there is no way she can cause any damage to society to justify stripping her away of her freedoms.

Of course that won't happen, because human beings tend to play the victim card for as long as possible. The irony of course, is that the Jewish people were also imprisoned for having opinions that went against the ideologies of the Nazi party. At her age, you might as well be executing her too.

[Melech 9,900]

11 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

 

If there's ANYONE who understands what Jewish people have gone through, it's Lebanese Christians.

Genocide? Check.

Always under threat? Check.

Target of terrorist attacks? Check.

What the Jewish people faced is beyond horrible, but it is hardly unique to them. Why are they deserving of special rights that extend to allowing people to be imprisoned for having controversial opinions about them?

As an a--logy, millions of women are raped yearly. Do we imprison those who say that women can't get raped?

It's an idiotic opinion, but it should not be banned.

While banning the denial of the Holocaust fresh after the war may have made sense given the need to educate the brainwashed population of the atrocity of their crimes, there is literally ZERO harm done by anyone who is stupid enough to deny it today because it has NO societal impact.

Furthermore, denying the Holocaust is hardly hate speech. It's the denial of an event in human history. 

Hate speech is verbally assaulting a group by using their own identity against them. It's hate speech to call LGBT people pedophiles. It's not hate speech to say that LGBT people were never prosecuted in history.

See the difference?

If the Jewish organizations in Germany had any self-respect, they'd call for the dismissal of these ridiculous charges because I believe they are better than that. This woman is clearly too old to have her opinions changed, and there is no way she can cause any damage to society.

Of course that won't happen, because human beings tend to play the victim card for as long as possible.

You hate Jews ,don't you? 

"While the Jews were the major group of victims, other religious groups were persecuted as well."

"What the Jewish people faced is beyond horrible, but it is hardly unique to them. Why are they deserving of special rights that extend to allowing people to be imprisoned for having controversial opinions about them?"

"f the Jewish organizations in Germany had any self-respect,"

"Of course that won't happen, because human beings tend to play the victim card for as long as possible."

It's always the same scheme of anti-semites who try to make our suffering about them or other groups. So I don't even try to bother talking with you anymore on this since you are clearly biased. 

Also the Shoah is pretty much unique in worlds history. Never were people that easy,that fast erased. 

you also act like as if anti-semitism doesn't exists anymore? Of course Jews are victims in the Western and Muslim word. If you don't see that you are an idiot and an racist. 

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

39 minutes ago, Simon said:

You hate Jews ,don't you? 

"While the Jews were the major group of victims, other religious groups were persecuted as well."

"What the Jewish people faced is beyond horrible, but it is hardly unique to them. Why are they deserving of special rights that extend to allowing people to be imprisoned for having controversial opinions about them?"

"f the Jewish organizations in Germany had any self-respect,"

"Of course that won't happen, because human beings tend to play the victim card for as long as possible."

It's always the same scheme of anti-semites who try to make our suffering about them or other groups. So I don't even try to bother talking with you anymore on this since you are clearly biased. 

Also the Shoah is pretty much unique in worlds history. Never were people that easy,that fast erased. 

 

What? 

Well I edited my post to seem less harsh, but I suppose it was too late.

No I don't hate Jews. Why would I? They're humans just as I am. I think I've made my positions clear in previous discussions. You should know . If I'm biased towards anyone, it's the Eastern European Jewish people for suffering in the same manner that my people have.

I'm only saying that Jews should not receive special rights in a manner that extends to imprisoning those with controversial opinions about historical events related to them. This is literally the only time I've seen a Western country imprison someone for having an idiotic opinion. It's simply ridiculous and would be something I'd expect from Daesh not modern Germany.

I simply cannot believe that Jewish political organizations would support the imprisonment of this woman. It's very hypocritical considering the circumstances. At this point in history, it's simply animus.

That's all. Also the Holocaust is not unique. It's probably the biggest one, but genocide has existed in many forms throughout history. In fact, the highest estimate of the death toll of the Congo genocide towards the end of the 19th century is approximately the same as the Holocaust. (10 million vs 11 million).

N.B. You can't use the term anti-semite on a Lebanese given that we are Semites. We share the same ancestry with the original Jews in the Middle East if you remember correctly.

[Melech 9,900]

6 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

 

 

N.B. You can't use the term anti-semite on a Lebanese given that we are Semites. We share the same ancestry with the original Jews in the Middle East if you remember correctly.

It's not the Jews fault that white men consider anti-semitism against Jews.  

Also "original" Jews. There are no not original Jews. We [Jews] have all the same ancestry. 

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

It's not the Jews fault that white men consider anti-semitism against Jews.  

Also "original" Jews. There are no not original Jews. We [Jews] have all the same ancestry. 

Haha true enough.

We're veering off topic here, but around 25% of modern Jews are not originally from the Middle East.

By original I was referring to those that were :)

[Melech 9,900]

1 minute ago, LebaneseDude said:

Haha true enough.

We're veering off topic here, but around 25% of modern Jews are not originally from the Middle East.

By original I was referring to those that were

They can all trace back ancestry to the Middle East. Don't give us the fault that we got kicked out so many times and mixed with local populations.

(that's btw also anti-semitic to say who is Jewish and not) 

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

They can all trace back ancestry to the Middle East. Don't give us the fault that we got kicked out so many times and mixed with local populations.

 

Israel itself admits that this is not true.

I googled to get the exact reference but:

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."
(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

Basically, a major Turkic empire converted to Judaism. So many Jews today originate from the Caucasus mountains (Eastern Europe) rather than the Middle East.  Google the Khazars for more information.

[Melech 9,900]

4 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

Israel itself admits that this is not true.

I googled to get the exact reference but:

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."
(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

Basically, a major Turkic empire converted to Judaism. So many Jews today originate from the Caucasus mountains (Eastern Europe) rather than the Middle East.  Google the Khazars for more information.

You do know that this is an anti-semitic conspiracy right?

http://forward.com/news/200825/why-ashkenazi-jews-are-not-descended-from-khazars/

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/study-finds-no-evidence-of-khazar-origin-for-ashkenazi-jews/2014/02/23/

"Jews break down into three genetic groups, all of which have Middle Eastern origins – which are shared with the Palestinians and Druze"
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385"

So stop with your bulls--t.