Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Morphine Prince said: Dude, it IS an American belief. Most Americans believe in "freedom of speech" in a different way than Europeans do. So, yes, it IS an American belief. You can talk about the other things America does, but the whole "freedom of speech" thing is very American. This is why here all the crazy people run their mouth. People like Trump, for example. I personally think allowing your media to actively discriminate against your own residents is awful. There's a clean line between "freedom of speech" and discrimination, y'all need to learnt the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Benji said: I personally think allowing your media to actively discriminate against your own residents is awful. There's a clean line between "freedom of speech" and discrimination, y'all need to learnt the difference. You realize people still aren't free of consequences, right? If someone says something discriminatory there are other ways of punishment besides throwing them in jail. You can speak by voting, not buying at this person's store, boycotting events, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 And there are hate crime laws in the US as well. It's just SPEECH that isn't treated severely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Morphine Prince said: You realize people still aren't free of consequences, right? If someone says something discriminatory there are other ways of punishment besides throwing them in jail. You can speak by voting, not buying at this person's store, boycotting events, etc. Why do you want propaganda against you to be broadcasted and encouraged though? Wouldn't you rather be given the respect you deserve as a human being? When muslims are being attacked because the local dickheads blame them for ISIL, do you think they're happy to tune into the news and hear themselves being condemned nationally? Do you really think "Freedom of speech" outweighs the fact that influential people's words can cause physical harm to others? I mean, I'm glad Masood can boycott the news! Shame he got glassed the other weekend when leaving the mosque because of misrepresentation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Benji said: Why do you want propaganda against you to be broadcasted and encouraged though? Wouldn't you rather be given the respect you deserve as a human being? When muslims are being attacked because the local dickheads blame them for ISIL, do you think they're happy to tune into the news and hear themselves being condemned nationally? Do you really think "Freedom of speech" outweighs the fact that influential people's words can cause physical harm to others? I mean, I'm glad Masood can boycott the news! Shame he got glassed the other weekend when leaving the mosque because of misrepresentation. Well, I personally don't watch this propaganda you're referring to. People will believe what they want whether it's broadcast or not. Freedom of speech has its certain limitations but I don't believe in punishing people just because I disagree. You know there are people in the US that say 9/11 never happened, right? What am I going to do?.... Turn the other cheek. If you don't like what you hear, simply turn around. The US already had its speech police back in the Cold War days and pre-WWI days and that turned out to be a huge mess. No one wants that again here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulture Kiari 3,433 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 20 minutes ago, Benji said: So let's stop jailing ISIL groomers and paedophiles who trade child ****ography. They're not directly physically hurting someone, they're just part of a giant chain of pain exactly the same.... so Are you stupid? It's pedophiles by the way. They are directly hurting someone in the sense that the more they trade child ****ography, the more child ****ography will be made, hurting children along the way. Meanwhile, a belief is just a belief. Jailing someone for their personal belief is as stupid as jailing Shonda Rhimes for pretty much saying Gaga's Oscar performance sucked. That is her personal belief/opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Morphine Prince said: Well, I personally don't watch this propaganda you're referring to. People will believe what they want whether it's broadcast or not. Freedom of speech has its certain limitations but I don't believe in punishing people just because I disagree. You know there are people in the US that say 9/11 never happened, right? What am I going to do?.... Turn the other cheek. If you don't like what you hear, simply turn around. The US already had its speech police back in the Cold War days and pre-WWI days and that turned out to be a huge mess. No one wants that again here. I don't think you're grasping the power of the media and it's influence on people. I know there are people who don't believe 9/11 happened... the difference between a genocide and a terror attack are hugely different though, from implications, destruction, death etc Denying a terror attack didn't happen or having an out of the world theory isn't hurting any group though? I mean how would you feel if your news channels started saying that the gays done 9/11 and the public's opinion started to shift causing you to become a target? Even though there is 0 evidence that you or the group you belong to done the attack, would you be fine with your country allowing your media to do that to you? I'm glad mine won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, RubberHeartt said: Are you stupid? It's pedophiles by the way. They are directly hurting someone in the sense that the more they trade child ****ography, the more child ****ography will be made, hurting children along the way. Meanwhile, a belief is just a belief. Jailing someone for their personal belief is as stupid as jailing Shonda Rhimes for pretty much saying Gaga's Oscar performance sucked. That is her personal belief/opinion. The more you encourage discrimination, the more discrimination will happen... it's not far fetched at all, even for someone as abrasive and predictable as you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Benji said: I don't think you're grasping the power of the media and it's influence on people. I know there are people who don't believe 9/11 happened... the difference between a genocide and a terror attack are hugely different though, from implications, destruction, death etc Denying a terror attack didn't happen or having an out of the world theory isn't hurting any group though? I mean how would you feel if your news channels started saying that the gays done 9/11 and the public's opinion started to shift causing you to become a target? Even though there is 0 evidence that you or the group you belong to done the attack, would you be fine with your country allowing your media to do that to you? I'm glad mine won't. When you speak of "our media" are you referring to Fox News (aka Faux News)? Because I don't watch that ****. The rest of the major news channels like CNN, NBC, etc. are more liberal and usually stay neutral. Fox News is a disgrace to journalism. The lowest common denominator in this country watch them. I mean, anyone with half a brain can see through the BS they spew on a daily basis. I grasp the power the media has but you do know people think for themselves, right? I always read people online claiming all these different "agendas" news networks have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Morphine Prince said: When you speak of "our media" are you referring to Fox News (aka Faux News)? Because I don't watch that ****. The rest of the major news channels like CNN, NBC, etc. are more liberal and usually stay neutral. Fox News is a disgrace to journalism. The lowest common denominator in this country watch them. I mean, anyone with half a brain can see through the BS they spew on a daily basis. I grasp the power the media has but you do know people think for themselves, right? I always read people online claiming all these different "agendas" news networks have. I'm talking about your media as a whole, if it doesn't have restrictions on propaganda, then there's nothing stopping them from creating heavily biased pieces. I'm glad you don't watch that sh*t, it's appalling it's even allowed to be broadcasted under the guise of news. I know people think for themselves, but you can't blindly deny that the media doesn't have a general huge influence on the public's perception of others, I mean come on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerk 0 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Benji said: I'm talking about your media as a whole, if it doesn't have restrictions on propaganda, then there's nothing stopping them from creating heavily biased pieces. I'm glad you don't watch that sh*t, it's appalling it's even allowed to be broadcasted under the guise of news. I know people think for themselves, but you can't blindly deny that the media doesn't have a general huge influence on the public's perception of others, I mean come on. Your argument assumes that placing a government in control of what it is ok to believe and what it is not ok to believe is less likely to result in the consequences you've identified. It is my opinion that a public forum respecting freedom of speech and allowing all different beliefs to be pitched against each other and argued for will allow those more ridiculous and harmful beliefs to be cast out, attacked and ridiculed and the most sensible, defensible and cogent beliefs to persuade and be accepted by the masses. A public forum will automatically check itself and fight against any argument that cannot be sustained, is illogical, is hateful, is harmful to certain groups of people. Such thorough and immediate checks are not present in the decision making bodies of any government, however well advanced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Benji said: I'm talking about your media as a whole, if it doesn't have restrictions on propaganda, then there's nothing stopping them from creating heavily biased pieces. I'm glad you don't watch that sh*t, it's appalling it's even allowed to be broadcasted under the guise of news. I know people think for themselves, but you can't blindly deny that the media doesn't have a general huge influence on the public's perception of others, I mean come on. It does but honestly the media is called out when it's obvious it's pushing some sort of agenda. As for the perception of others, the only one I see doing that is Fox News most of the time. The other channels just provide regular news. The people who hold these beliefs against certain groups have been holding them for a long time. In fact, US media is called out now for being too liberal by conservatives while they ignore Fox News. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroon 49,685 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 24 minutes ago, RubberHeartt said: It's pedophiles by the way. It's "paedophiles" in England, Benji's English Sorry just wanted to quickly say that, gonna go crawl back under the rock I came from now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,683 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Haroon said: It's "paedophiles" in England, Benji's English Sorry just wanted to quickly say that, gonna go crawl back under the rock I came from now It is PEDOPHILES. How dare you come in here and insult America? Are you anti-American? IS THAT IT? SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS, you red coat! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, killerk said: Your argument assumes that placing a government in control of what it is ok to believe and what it is not ok to believe is less likely to result in the consequences you've identified. It is my opinion that a public forum respecting freedom of speech and allowing all different beliefs to be pitched against each other and argued for will allow those more ridiculous and harmful beliefs to be cast out, attacked and ridiculed and the most sensible, defensible and cogent beliefs to persuade and be accepted by the masses. A public forum will automatically check itself and fight against any argument that cannot be sustained, is illogical, is hateful, is harmful to certain groups of people. Such thorough and immediate checks are not present in the decision making bodies of any government, however well advanced. This is a hugely grey area however. The law isn't about the government controlling the media, it's actually the opposite. When there aren't laws in place to uphold a standard of reporting, the government could easily assume control of the media and have only their agenda broadcasted. When there is a law protecting it's people from biased media and discrimination, the government (formed / voted in by the people and our house of lords) would have to agree on destroying the law to allow them to assume full control, which would never happen as it goes against all of the party's interests. Even if in some bizarre universe they did manage to remove the law, it's not a dictatorship and within a few years, a new vote would happen and a new parliament would be in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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