Would Iggy Azalea be taken more seriously if she was black?

[StrawberryBlond 14,102]

Just now, Harry said:

Mess you're not listening to anything I'm saying so I'm going to stop giving you the satisfaction. Some people just exist in their wilful ignorance, I suppose.

If I said the same thing to you, you'd probably accuse me of backing out because I don't have any good arguments to respond with. But I'm sure it's ok for you to say it to me. Frankly, I find the way you shut down other people's opinions when they don't measure up to your standards to be far more ignorant. Many of those accuse others of ignorance tend not to see it within themselves, I find. Just like those people who belittle anyone for judging when they're the biggest judges themselves and are judging by the very nature of what they're saying.

Just now, Kayla said:

I would have liked this post if not for the diss on intelligence and quality of character at the end.

I don't understand why you keep adding personal insults to your posts. Even I disagree with a lot of what Strawberry is saying, but that doesn't make her unintelligent. While I agree there are contradictory statements in her posts, I think overall she has put a lot of time into researching the things she talks about and she always has reasons for her beliefs. I find myself agreeing with you more, Harry, but that doesn't mean Strawberry's posts lack intelligence or indicate she's a bad person. And when it comes to her views on feminism, I find myself disagreeing just as much as I find myself agreeing with what she says . 
Regardless of how much I agree or disagree, at the end of the day Strawberry is an intelligent woman who has positive intention when she expresses her opinions.

Personally, and more on topic, I'm bummed that Iggy doesn't have the integrity behind her because I love the sound of a woman with an accent rapping. I think Iggy's greatest downfall when it comes to her race is that she's never really shown sensitivity or understanding to the issue. It doesn't seem like she joined rap out of true love or experience with the genre, which has a lot of history and prides itself on being "real." 

Like...if Katy were to put out a Jazz album we'd probably all roll our eyes and make shady comments questioning where she got that idea from. Or if a person were to say they were "Gaga's BIGGEST fan!" but only knew the singles we wouldn't take them seriously. And that's how a lot of people see Iggy. It doesn't mean she's completely untalented or knows literally nothing about what she's doing, but her involvement is suspicious and her knowledge doesn't seem genuinely earned. 

Thank you so much for that and I always find opposing views so much easier to take when they're put down in such a polite, respectful way. There's a lot of people on this forum who could learn a lot from you.

Thing is, I've never particularly understood what people mean by her lack of sensistivity or understanding of the genre. There are plenty of rappers who take a light-hearted, commercial side to rap and they're never accused of this. But again, it helps that a lot of those rappers are black. But when a white rapper does this, they're just doing rap for the money and fan loyalty, they don't have knowledge of rap history, they have no real connection to it. I just can't help thinking that it's just a switch that goes off in people's heads that says "White person = cultural appropriation and use of rap for commercial gain." Because blacks have never done either of those things, right?

I've actually been watching a lot of interviews with Iggy recently and I'm always blown away by how genuine she seems. She exudes friendliness and warmth. She's always so smiley and jokey. She's very honest about everything. Her theories are interesting. She has no bad blood towards anyone and just wants everyone to be friends. That's being real to me. I can't stand how a lot of rappers have this ego and are all confrontational because it's too overwhelming and off-putting. But in rap, this is considered "real." I consider it fake and putting on a front because you're insecure. With the exception of Eminem, all of my favourite rappers have a friendly aura, have a humble personality and have realist attitudes. Being down to earth is real to me. I've seen Iggy talk about how she found love for rap aged 12 when the boys from her street played Tupac's Baby Don't Cry on their computer playlist and how she looked up rap lyrics online and knew all these lyrics weren't always correct and working out what everything meant. I've seen her talk about how she grew up with depression, that her dad left her as a child (explaining it with a letter which her teacher gave to her) and how she worked a lot of dead end jobs in supermarkets and record shops for $6 an hour and then cleaned houses under her mum's real estate business. I've seen her talk about reality of the music business, what labels expect of you, touring with Nas and how she found a friend in him and was pleased he respected her take on rap when a lot of others didn't. There's a general consenus feeling that Iggy's dumb but really, in the interviews I saw of her, she is very intelligent and her views are very insightful. It's just the public don't see the side to her because she always presents such a happy form of rap that people don't think she can have experienced any hurt in her life or have any interesting opinions.

Just now, Harry said:

Maybe I should leave personal comments out of the conversation but I think it's important to note that she has made jibes at me before which is probably now approach her with such hostility. My feelings still stand though.

But I agree with everything you said about Iggy.

Right from the first time we ever argued, you were the one to start taking jibes at me. All I've done is defend myself from then on. I wouldn't have felt the need to fight back if you hadn't started attacking me personally. Treat others as you wish to be treated. I used to just take it but I've been bullied too much in life to just accept it and I will stand up for myself if I feel I'm being mistreated. I never set out to hurt anyone with my posts so I know when someone attacks me that it's always for no reason because I don't set out to be mean to people, ever. Which I why I don't understand it when people are mean to me, as I've done nothing to deserve it. I'm glad that you've acknowledged that you are hostile towards me anyway and yes, you definitely should leave personal comments out of the conversation. Just because someone has a different opinion to you gives you no right to pick apart their character.

Just now, Yanko said:

not insulting you but ok 

You laughed at the situation when Harry said all that negative stuff about me. Basically, you found it funny that someone else was bringing me down.

Just now, SlayedForTheGod said:

kreayshawn has had a hit. she didnt use that success to her advantage. lil debbie will never be big cause shes seen as a kreayshawn clone. and the other two are relatively new. i know nothing about sirah so who knows with her but i believe brooke can get a hit. the thing about iggy was that she had her looks (she was white and had a modelesque body) and t.i. 

She never had a massive hit like Iggy did or most black rappers have. None of her other stuff sold, which put her album on delay, the lack of interest in her meant her label obviously gave her no money and promo, so she faded out. Would have happened to anyone else in the same situation. And you're putting all the others into the same category as her just because they're new. And you think Brooke can get a hit, seriously? She's been trying for failing for several years now. Thinking that Iggy got it all because of her beauty is just typical of the pessimistic attitude we take towards artists - they only got to where they are based on superficiality that is completely unfounded. Iggy herself even brought this up. Here's the thing - women don't really get success based on looks anymore, its been a long time since that's happened. Women don't like other women that look like they could steal their boyfriend or sometimes "there's just something about them." So, it leads to a bias against pretty women and thinking that being pretty is some sort of crime. So, the sales aren't always there from women. And men, well, they don't buy music from women just because they're hot, they buy posters and drool over their videos, but they don't buy the music. Iggy hasn't even been high ranked in any FHM or Maxim Hot 100 lists. She got the success because she made a catchy, commercial rap song, simple.

[Harry 26,836]

48 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

If I said the same thing to you, you'd probably accuse me of backing out because I don't have any good arguments to respond with. But I'm sure it's ok for you to say it to me. Frankly, I find the way you shut down other people's opinions when they don't measure up to your standards to be far more ignorant. Many of those accuse others of ignorance tend not to see it within themselves, I find. Just like those people who belittle anyone for judging when they're the biggest judges themselves and are judging by the very nature of what they're saying.

Oh trust me I'm not backing out, I still feel the exact same way about everything that I've said.

Aka you don't like being challenged. You think your nonsensical essays are so well thought out that no one could possibly disagree with you and that's why you get so upset that I actually have something to say about it... High horse. Hop off it.

[wiltedbliss 915]

23 hours ago, Kayla said:

I would have liked this post if not for the diss on intelligence and quality of character at the end.

I don't understand why you keep adding personal insults to your posts. Even I disagree with a lot of what Strawberry is saying, but that doesn't make her unintelligent. While I agree there are contradictory statements in her posts, I think overall she has put a lot of time into researching the things she talks about and she always has reasons for her beliefs. I find myself agreeing with you more, Harry, but that doesn't mean Strawberry's posts lack intelligence or indicate she's a bad person. And when it comes to her views on feminism, I find myself disagreeing just as much as I find myself agreeing with what she says . 
Regardless of how much I agree or disagree, at the end of the day Strawberry is an intelligent woman who has positive intention when she expresses her opinions.

Personally, and more on topic, I'm bummed that Iggy doesn't have the integrity behind her because I love the sound of a woman with an accent rapping. I think Iggy's greatest downfall when it comes to her race is that she's never really shown sensitivity or understanding to the issue. It doesn't seem like she joined rap out of true love or experience with the genre, which has a lot of history and prides itself on being "real." 

Like...if Katy were to put out a Jazz album we'd probably all roll our eyes and make shady comments questioning where she got that idea from. Or if a person were to say they were "Gaga's BIGGEST fan!" but only knew the singles we wouldn't take them seriously. And that's how a lot of people see Iggy. It doesn't mean she's completely untalented or knows literally nothing about what she's doing, but her involvement is suspicious and her knowledge doesn't seem genuinely earned. 

Amazingly put  

[wiltedbliss 915]

Lord Jesus, I think it would be best of this is all just dropped. Both of you don't seem to be agreeing with one another, so just let it go. No need for the insults, too.  

[StrawberryBlond 14,102]

Just now, Harry said:

Oh trust me I'm not backing out, I still feel the exact same way about everything that I've said.

Aka you don't like being challenged. You think your nonsensical essays are so well thought out that no one could possibly disagree with you and that's why you get so upset that I actually have something to say about it... High horse. Hop off it.

I don't mind being challenged if it's put forward respectfully. Did you just read what I said to Kayla about how I find her views on Iggy (the ones you share) to be so much easier to take when they're put down in a nice way? No matter how good I think my points are, I don't expect everyone to agree, actually, but I don't like it when people are nasty in response and call them nonsensical just because they don't agree. I spent a lot of time and effort typing and researching and seeing as they're mostly correct spelling, grammar, punctuation and contain some research and facts, how could they be seen as nonsensical? You seem to think that I use intelligence as a weapon or that I think I'm so much smarter than everyone, but I really don't. This is just how I express myself and I'm not trying to impress anybody, I'm just putting down my feelings. And I get upset when you hurt my feelings by judging me personally and telling me that my opinions are somehow worth less because I'm trying to be high faluting to give the impression of intelligence. There's nothing fake about me and I'm a very humble person who actually relishes being challenged. I wouldn't be on discussion forums if I didn't.

[Benji 20,113]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

If I said the same thing to you, you'd probably accuse me of backing out because I don't have any good arguments to respond with. But I'm sure it's ok for you to say it to me. Frankly, I find the way you shut down other people's opinions when they don't measure up to your standards to be far more ignorant. Many of those accuse others of ignorance tend not to see it within themselves, I find. Just like those people who belittle anyone for judging when they're the biggest judges themselves and are judging by the very nature of what they're saying.

To be fair though, this hasn't been a discussion. Harry posted his opinion and pretty much backed up everything he said without wavering out of any of it.

Neither of you are the kind of person to admit their argument is weaker so he's actually doing the sensible thing to just back down and leave you to believing what you want. I mean this thread should really be tagged with opinion, not question because you're not asking anyone, you're trying to tell them.

I get that this is somewhat getting personal, but don't drag it there further if you're also complaining about the fact it is.

Let it be and let the waters calm.

[Harry 26,836]

13 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I don't mind being challenged if it's put forward respectfully. Did you just read what I said to Kayla about how I find her views on Iggy (the ones you share) to be so much easier to take when they're put down in a nice way? No matter how good I think my points are, I don't expect everyone to agree, actually, but I don't like it when people are nasty in response and call them nonsensical just because they don't agree. I spent a lot of time and effort typing and researching and seeing as they're mostly correct spelling, grammar, punctuation and contain some research and facts, how could they be seen as nonsensical? You seem to think that I use intelligence as a weapon or that I think I'm so much smarter than everyone, but I really don't. This is just how I express myself and I'm not trying to impress anybody, I'm just putting down my feelings. And I get upset when you hurt my feelings by judging me personally and telling me that my opinions are somehow worth less because I'm trying to be high faluting to give the impression of intelligence. There's nothing fake about me and I'm a very humble person who actually relishes being challenged. I wouldn't be on discussion forums if I didn't.

I disagree.

Benji said everything I have to say about this in a better (and nicer) way than I would have.

[Harry 26,836]

17 minutes ago, Gaga is Mine said:

Lord Jesus, I think it would be best of this is all just dropped. Both of you don't seem to be agreeing with one another, so just let it go. No need for the insults, too.  

I tried but she can't let it go  She just sparked up another debate with me in a different thread, too. It's endless.

[wiltedbliss 915]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

I tried but she can't let it go  She just sparked up another debate with me in a different thread, too. It's endless.

I just saw  

[wiltedbliss 915]

StrawberryBlond, hun, I have nothing against you but I do think it's just time to drop it all. The argument isn't going anywhere imo 

[StrawberryBlond 14,102]

Just now, Benji said:

To be fair though, this hasn't been a discussion. Harry posted his opinion and pretty much backed up everything he said without wavering out of any of it.

Neither of you are the kind of person to admit their argument is weaker so he's actually doing the sensible thing to just back down and leave you to believing what you want. I mean this thread should really be tagged with opinion, not question because you're not asking anyone, you're trying to tell them.

And I have wavered? My opinion has stayed the same throughout.

Of course I won't admit my argument is weak, as I don't think it is. I'd hardly call him the sensible one, but ok. And I tagged it with a question because the thread title was a question. I haven't told anyone that they need to obey my opinion.

Just now, Harry said:

I disagree.

Benji said everything I have to say about this in a better (and nicer) way than I would have.

I actually hoped I'd get through to you after Kayla posted, but apparently not. I don't think you'll ever like me. But if that's the case, just avoid me. I can't deal with anymore of you nastiness when I've done nothing bad to you.

Just now, Harry said:

I tried but she can't let it go  She just sparked up another debate with me in a different thread, too. It's endless.

I wasn't sparking up a debate, I was discussing. I tried to make it as open minded and polite as possible. I just had to quote what you said because you raised a point that needed to be expanded on. You really are hostile towards me. I've tried to be kind to you so often but it never works. Can't you just discuss something with me without being horrible? And is there anything we can share an opinion on?

Just now, Gaga is Mine said:

I just saw  

Just when I thought someone had my back, again, they show that they're siding with the person who was against me...

Just now, Gaga is Mine said:

StrawberryBlond, hun, I have nothing against you but I do think it's just time to drop it all. The argument isn't going anywhere imo 

Well, it's hard to believe you have nothing against me when you like something negative Harry said about me. But maybe it is for the best if this discussion was dropped because the hate towards me is bringing me close to tears now.

[Harry 26,836]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And I have wavered? My opinion has stayed the same throughout.

Of course I won't admit my argument is weak, as I don't think it is. I'd hardly call him the sensible one, but ok. And I tagged it with a question because the thread title was a question. I haven't told anyone that they need to obey my opinion.

I actually hoped I'd get through to you after Kayla posted, but apparently not. I don't think you'll ever like me. But if that's the case, just avoid me. I can't deal with anymore of you nastiness when I've done nothing bad to you.

I wasn't sparking up a debate, I was discussing. I tried to make it as open minded and polite as possible. I just had to quote what you said because you raised a point that needed to be expanded on. You really are hostile towards me. I've tried to be kind to you so often but it never works. Can't you just discuss something with me without being horrible? And is there anything we can share an opinion on?

Just when I thought someone had my back, again, they show that they're siding with the person who was against me...

Well, it's hard to believe you have nothing against me when you like something negative Harry said about me. But maybe it is for the best if this discussion was dropped because the hate towards me is bringing me close to tears now.

oh my god...

[wiltedbliss 915]

Just now, StrawberryBlond said:

And I have wavered? My opinion has stayed the same throughout.

Of course I won't admit my argument is weak, as I don't think it is. I'd hardly call him the sensible one, but ok. And I tagged it with a question because the thread title was a question. I haven't told anyone that they need to obey my opinion.

I actually hoped I'd get through to you after Kayla posted, but apparently not. I don't think you'll ever like me. But if that's the case, just avoid me. I can't deal with anymore of you nastiness when I've done nothing bad to you.

I wasn't sparking up a debate, I was discussing. I tried to make it as open minded and polite as possible. I just had to quote what you said because you raised a point that needed to be expanded on. You really are hostile towards me. I've tried to be kind to you so often but it never works. Can't you just discuss something with me without being horrible? And is there anything we can share an opinion on?

Just when I thought someone had my back, again, they show that they're siding with the person who was against me...

Well, it's hard to believe you have nothing against me when you like something negative Harry said about me. But maybe it is for the best if this discussion was dropped because the hate towards me is bringing me close to tears now.

I swear I'm not being hateful. I would never. I didn't think what he said was negative though? I already disagreed with the insults he threw at you in the previous pages, and I made that clear. This wasn't made to hurt you in any way, I swear. I just found it funny to see you guys arguing somewhere else too  This wasn't meant to be mean to you, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I never want anyone to feel like I'm bullying them so im sorry hun :hug: 

[Benji 20,113]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And I have wavered? My opinion has stayed the same throughout.

Of course I won't admit my argument is weak, as I don't think it is. I'd hardly call him the sensible one, but ok. And I tagged it with a question because the thread title was a question. I haven't told anyone that they need to obey my opinion.

Well you've kind of applied standards to Nicki that you don't hold Iggy to at all, in my opinion hypocrisy is somewhat of a waver, especially when there's little to no reason for you to not hold them both to the same standard in your own argument.

I get that, but at the same time you're asking a question with your mind firmly made up. Hell, even the debate tag (I think we still got it) would be better than just question.

[StrawberryBlond 14,102]

Just now, Gaga is Mine said:

I swear I'm not being hateful. I would never. I didn't think what he said was negative though? I already disagreed with the insults he threw at you in the previous pages, and I made that clear. This wasn't made to hurt you in any way, I swear. I just found it funny to see you guys arguing somewhere else too  This wasn't meant to be mean to you, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I never want anyone to feel like I'm bullying them so im sorry hun :hug: 

Ok then, I'm sorry. I didn't realise you meant it in such a lighthearted way. I view the liking of a post to mean that you agree with the poster, so if the poster is being negative to someone I like (or any other member in general), I don't like it because it means you're feeding negative attitudes towards others. Just the way I see it, but maybe not everyone else sees it that way. Again, sorry, it's just so many people have been against me lately that this kind of thing can be misinterpreted.

Just now, Benji said:

Well you've kind of applied standards to Nicki that you don't hold Iggy to at all, in my opinion hypocrisy is somewhat of a waver, especially when there's little to no reason for you to not hold them both to the same standard in your own argument.

I get that, but at the same time you're asking a question with your mind firmly made up. Hell, even the debate tag (I think we still got it) would be better than just question.

What standards were they? Please be clear that I judge all artists equally and I wouldn't downgrade one for superficial reasons. I really don't think I've been hypocritical (I think my comments about rapping and singing were misinterpreted).

I'm asking the question to other members, it isn't all about my opinion, regardless of what you might think. Most people enter these threads with their minds made up, that's how they have the confidence to put their opinion down in the first place. I didn't know there was a debate tag. I don't remember seeing one.