Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 6 minutes ago, Gagamel said: This is just rude. If you want to speak German, you can go to the specific section of the forums or PM Simon himself. And as we've explained countless times already, some innocent lives will be lost if we want to destroy ISIS, it doesn't mean we don't care about those lives, we just understand and accept the fact that it is necessary. Instead of SJWing i would really like to hear your solution on dealing with this issue without losing innocent lives. I have no solution... but neither do any of the people who commented... but instead of jumping on this thread to celebrate, I shared my hopes that no innocent lives were harmed, whereas other people focused on saying "yes, bomb them" ... "no mercy"... They aren't changing anything either, you realize that, don't you? You also realize that saying "They should have done this before" is trying to simplify the dilemma of killing innocent lives... As for me writing in German, I wanted the idea to come across as honest as possible... But interesting how that is the part of this thread that offends you But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualle1 1,385 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 2 minutes ago, hmlswine said: I have no solution... but neither do any of the people who commented... but instead of jumping on this thread to celebrate, I shared my hopes that no innocent lives were harmed, whereas other people focused on saying "yes, bomb them" ... "no mercy"... They aren't changing anything either, you realize that, don't you? You also realize that saying "They should have done this before" is trying to simplify the dilemma of killing innocent lives... As for me writing in German, I wanted the idea to come across as honest as possible... But interesting how that is the part of this thread that offends you Sorry, but you seem to misunderstand something very important here! Of course we want to see ISIS and every other islamistic terror group destroyed - but certainly we also hope, that the collateral damage will be as low as possible. Do you really think that we want the death of innocent people? No! MAKE LOVE NOT WAR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Just now, Qualle1 said: Sorry, but you seem to misunderstand something very important here! Of course we want to see ISIS and every other islamistic terror group destroyed - but certainly we also hope, that the collateral damage will be as low as possible. Do you really think that we want the death of innocent people? No! Of course I don't think you wanted it... But I think celebrating at this point is tactless... But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorno Giovanna 3,178 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 hour ago, OBEY said: It was my face/reaction when i saw that France sent 20 bombs. I was shocked/scared/surprised. That's why i used it. Not to make fun of the situation at all. I can understand though. Unfortunately, can't edit it anymore! yeah it's okay, I watch scream queens so this gif made me laugh, tho it was kinda posted in the wrong thread このジョルノジョヴァンナ夢がある Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 3 hours ago, hmlswine said: Hast du wirklich grad Dresden als erfolgreiches Kriegsende bezeichnet? Und willst dann noch behaupten der Rest wüsste nicht genug über Geschichte? Auch wenn es stimmen würde, dass du dich mit dem Thema auseinandergesetzt hast, heißt es lange noch nicht, dass du Menschenleben derart verachten solltest. Menschenleben werden in Geschichtsbüchern zu Zahlen und nichts mehr. Natürlich bist du glücklich, weil wie du schon überall in diesem Forum angegeben hast, ist dir nur dein eigenes Leben wichtig und du hast natürlich nichts davon miterlebt. Du glaubst Entscheidungen über das Leben anderer treffen zu dürfen. Du entscheidest nicht ob diese Menschen als Opfer für was du als sinnvolles Kriegsende bezeichnest, sterben sollen. Leider sind viele schon zum Opfer geworden und das Letzte was man sich anhören muss, ist wie du das Leiden ihrer Familien komplett in den Hintergrund schiebst. I never have justified the bombing of Dresden. Though, bombings on the Ruhrgebiet, Hamburg or Berlin can be justified. The Germans verachtet the lives of millions of my people, so you do you? And I don't really value my life above others. Mess. The majority of people are victims of Assad and IS and if you won't to stop them you need to bomb them. Easy as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 2 hours ago, Kiddoo said: germany was basically defeated when dresden was attacked in february 1945. churchill and roosevelt wanted a systematic massacre of the civil population in that city. even though germany has started the war it is absolutely disguisting to euphemize any of the actions on both sides. Diese Täter-Opfer-Tausch ist extrem typisch. That was not a systematic massacre. The Shoah was one. Neither Curchill or Roosevelt wanted to kill the whole German population. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 hour ago, Simon said: I never have justified the bombing of Dresden. Though, bombings on the Ruhrgebiet, Hamburg or Berlin can be justified. The Germans verachtet the lives of millions of my people, so you do you? And I don't really value my life above others. Mess. The majority of people are victims of Assad and IS and if you won't to stop them you need to bomb them. Easy as that. I guess that's also where we disagree.... There's no point in blaming a whole country EDIT: Sorry if I offended anyone with this sentence... Of course I wasn't denying any of the atrocities that happened (read below)... I know perfectly well that millions of Germans participated in this... I was talking about the vicitms... Jewish Germans, gay Germans and other innocent Germans minorities who were victims of the torture of a German majority I just prefer not making it about countries, but instead groups of people, because otherwise it only causes more prejudice It's been a long day, I apologize for not making my point clear enough in the first place But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 minute ago, hmlswine said: I guess that's also where we disagree.... There's no point in blaming a whole country Well was it Germany who voted for the NSDAP? Was it Germany that took away my grannies sister,parents and relatives? Nobody blames the today Germany, obviously, but please stop with the täter-opfer-umkehr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagamel 3,410 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 4 minutes ago, hmlswine said: I have no solution... but neither do any of the people who commented... but instead of jumping on this thread to celebrate, I shared my hopes that no innocent lives were harmed, whereas other people focused on saying "yes, bomb them" ... "no mercy"... They aren't changing anything either, you realize that, don't you? You also realize that saying "They should have done this before" is trying to simplify the dilemma of killing innocent lives... As for me writing in German, I wanted the idea to come across as honest as possible... But interesting how that is the part of this thread that offends you Well first of all, anyone writing anything in this thread won't change a thing. But what we can do here is have a discussion and voice our opinions on countless parts of this topic like whether this bombing was justified, what would be the best approach, how to deal with refugee-terrorists... etc Unless you think comments like "yes bomb them" and "no mercy" are meant towards innocent people, which i'm pretty sure they aren't, i don't understand what you are going on about. Obviously ALL of us want ISIS destroyed with no innocent lives lost but since that is basically impossible, the only question is which measures are each of us willing to take to destroy them. A lot of us agree that the innocent lives lost in Syria would be justified if ISIS were to be destroyed. Many people also propose for France and the rest of the world to do nothing, but i really don't understand what that would accomplish. ISIS would still take innocent lives, they would keep getting new recruits and keep growing, so i am sure that is not the way to go. The main difference between deaths of innocent people is intention. ISIS is INTENTIONALLY killing innocent people because they are terrorists, while innocent lives lost during bombings like these are certainly not intentional, but for a greater purpose. Of course that doesn't mean innocent lives lost unintentionally are any less valuable than those lost intentionally, but they do actually serve for a better tomorrow and are not lives just pointlessly lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 minute ago, Simon said: Well was it Germany who voted for the NSDAP? Was it Germany that took away my grannies sister,parents and relatives? Nobody blames the today Germany, obviously, but please stop with the täter-opfer-umkehr It wasn't Germany, not everyone voted for them... And not everyone who voted for them agreed with what happened next... But that's a whole different discussion But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Just now, hmlswine said: It wasn't Germany, not everyone voted for them... And not everyone who voted for them agreed with what happened next... But that's a whole different discussion Germany was Nazi, if you fail to accept that, this discussion is useless. If so much Germans didn't agree for what happened, my grandparents family would have been alive and my grandparents wouldn't have numbers on their arms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 5 minutes ago, Simon said: Germany was Nazi, if you fail to accept that, this discussion is useless. If so much Germans didn't agree for what happened, my grandparents family would have been alive and my grandparents wouldn't have numbers on their arms. I'm really sorry to hear about your grandparents.., And I'm not denying any of the horrible and unforgivable things that happened... But I don't want to fall into generalizations... cause many people weren't Nazi... your grandparents were German (if I understood that correctly) and they were innocent... But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Just now, hmlswine said: I'm really sorry to hear about your grandparents.., And I'm not denying any of the horrible and unforgivable things that happened... But I don't want to fall into generalizations... cause many people weren't Nazi... your grandparents were German (if I understood that correctly) and they were innocent... They were Croatian and Polish Jews. You say many people weren't Nazis, but if that were true they would stand against the government. It was clearly a minority that were against it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagamel 3,410 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 2 minutes ago, hmlswine said: I'm really sorry to hear about your grandparents.., And I'm not denying any of the horrible and unforgivable things that happened... But I don't want to fall into generalizations... cause many people weren't Nazi... your grandparents were German (if I understood that correctly) and they were innocent... I get where you are coming from but we can't hand pick those that were and weren't Nazi. And for the sake of the discussion we have to, i guess, "blame" the whole country. The fact is tho that the majority were Nazi's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Just now, Simon said: They were Croatian and Polish Jews. You say many people weren't Nazis, but if that were true they would stand against the government. It was clearly a minority that were against it. Not that this makes it any less terrible, but less than half of the people voted for the NSDAP... But it's not like today, people weren't as informed with social media, not denying that there were people who knowingly voted for them... My grandparents and their family didn't vote for them and they lost everything, they were pushed out of what now is Poland, because they were German.... But I can't do the whole situation justice in a short comment But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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