Guacamole Bush shrugs off Oregon shooting, "stuff happens."

[SKANK 14,288]

No??? It was written such that Americans could protect their property from the government and other citizens trying to take it.

I know you don't honestly believe that the firearms currently available for you and I would be useful in defending our property form the United States Government. The three hundred or so million guns that are privately owned by Americans citizens would be totally useless against the full military force of our government. If you want to argue that the Second Amendment has a useful purpose then you have to at least concede that it's usefulness as a defense against a totalitarian government died ages ago.

 

[MJHolland 12,725]

 

I know you don't honestly believe that the firearms currently available for you and I would be useful in defending our property form the United States Government. The three hundred or so million guns that are privately owned by Americans citizens would be totally useless against the full military force of our government. If you want to argue that the Second Amendment has a useful purpose then you have to at least concede that it's usefulness as a defense against a totalitarian government died ages ago.

 

Perhaps, but if that's the way you're going to argue for total irradiation of the 2nd amendment I think it's a straw man argument at best.

[SKANK 14,288]

Perhaps, but if that's the way you're going to argue for total irradiation of the 2nd amendment I think it's a straw man argument at best.

That isn't my argument, you are the one who put it forward, I was just explain why it was flawed. It's irrational to suggest the Second Amendment protects us from our government, your right to bear arms will not protect you from a drone strike.

The Second Amendment is already largely ignored. We have laws restricting what arms you not allowed to bear. If private citizens are restricted in what arms they are allowed to own, so why not just tighten those restrictions?

If you don't want to ditch the Second Amendment for old times sake there are plenty of things we can do immediately to help with these mass shootings. Starting with federally sponsored gun buy back programs. Only good can come from reducing the amount of guns in our country.

[TiphEret 1,320]

Here a question for you. Tell me again how effect the "banning" of any good and service that was once a legal practice in America has ever gone. Get back to me on that. 

I'm gonna also refer you back to the comment I just replied to. Banning something isn't the solution. We've never been able to effectively ban any good or service that was once apart of the legal market. Black/shadow markets always occur, they're less regulated, they're untaxed, and they could put firearms in the hands of really really really bad people. And that point when you make guns illegal you can FORGET about background checks buddy.

Also... good luck amending the second amending the freakin Bill of Rights hahahaha

Dude I just said I wasn't for banning guns learn to read before using such condescending tons... more regulations doesn't equal banning ...relax! 

[MJHolland 12,725]

 

That isn't my argument, you are the one who put it forward, I was just explain why it was flawed. It's irrational to suggest the Second Amendment protects us from our government, your right to bear arms will not protect you from a drone strike.

The Second Amendment is already largely ignored. We have laws restricting what arms you not allowed to bear. If private citizens are restricted in what arms they are allowed to own, so why not just tighten those restrictions?

If you don't want to ditch the Second Amendment for old times sake there are plenty of things we can do immediately to help with these mass shootings. Starting with federally sponsored gun buy back programs. Only good can come from reducing the amount of guns in our country.

I'm definitely for larger regulation of guns, but I don't think we should just start taking them away from the responsible owners they're in the hands of right now. I was originally just commenting on the knee-jerk reaction I see far too often on more liberal platforms (such as this one) that say the second amendment needs to be done away with all together. And I'm just left like... we still have a violent culture? People are still going to get weapons through an even less regulated medium and use them on other people?

That was the only point in here that I was trying to make.

Dude I just said I wasn't for banning guns learn to read before using such condescending tons... more regulations doesn't equal banning ...relax! 

Oops, sorry mate. I don't think I was trine tag you. 

[TiphEret 1,320]

I'm definitely for larger regulation of guns, but I don't think we should just start taking them away from the responsible owners they're in the hands of right now. I was originally just commenting on the knee-jerk reaction I see far too often on more liberal platforms (such as this one) that say the second amendment needs to be done away with all together. And I'm just left like... we still have a violent culture? People are still going to get weapons through an even less regulated medium and use them on other people?

That was the only point in here that I was trying to make.

Oops, sorry mate. I don't think I was trine tag you. 

You are making a good point but in your opinion what kind of step can be taken in an emergency situation like that, because shooting happens still way too often and violent culture doesn't change overnight so I understand why people think regulation seem the solution at least temporarily but it's a complex issue really I don't know 

[MJHolland 12,725]

Ha you'd think so. Then you go on facebook and read thousands of comments about people calling him "King Barrack Osama" and making ridiculous claims that he's trying to take away Americans' freedom.

My perspective is fine. I see a problem and I want it fixed. Just because our right leaning and some left leaning politicians aren't as bad as they could be doesn't mean that we should just grin and bear it. That's like not treating cancer until it's terminal. 

As long as there are idiots in this country that think their religious beliefs trump the constitution, I'll be speaking against them. As long as there are billionaires who believe that trickle down economics work, I'll be speaking against them. As long as there are morons who just want to shoot down others' ideas on how to solve a problem but not offer and valid or intelligent answers of their own, I'll be pissed off and continue to speak out against them.

*inhale* I'm not dismissing the idiots on the left either, but at least they're on the right side of history...not including the crack pot conspiracy theorists. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams."

There are plenty of left wingers that have it all wrong too buddy. If you don't think "trickle down economics" works, then you don't believe in fundamental free market economies. It's no coincidence that the largest employer in America is Walmart and the wealthiest family in this nation is the Walton family who owns it. The rich are job creators, not the government and a intro-level economics class would prove you that. 

And I have a completely opposing view towards yours. A country is always going to have extremist wings to their political culture. If you look at the political climate through history, even today, there are extreme wings on each side in every society. However, as long as those poles aren't too opposing and they have a relative tolerance for each other (John Boehner isn't attacking Reid every day on Capital Hill, the republicans aren't trying to assassinate the democratic president, etc.) you actually get a political culture that falls somewhere in the middle with the moderates/independents deciding who wins elections. That is pretty much what we have in this country right now, albeit they could be working together a little more haha. 

Just some food for thought. 

[Whispering 18,865]

Stuff happens? What an ass!

So sick of these Republicans and their group-think mentality. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

You are making a good point but in your opinion what kind of step can be taken in an emergency situation like that, because shooting happens still way too often and violent culture doesn't change overnight so I understand why people think regulation seem the solution at least temporarily but it's a complex issue really I don't know 

Honestly I don't know either. I think first and foremost we have to change the way background checks are done in this country, meaning we need to make them universal. Second, we cannot keep ignoring where the highest prevalence of gun-related crime occurs. It's not in movie theaters or elementary schools in white, middle class towns (although these get 100% of the media coverage). That VAST majority of gun homicides in America occur in poor inner-city areas and it's usually minority-on-minotrity crime. Our inner cities breed this kind of "gang" culture where we have little kids on the streets of Chicago having a gun put in their hands by thugs. Kids being raised in these areas quickly become numb to seeing violence and even going as far to commit heinous acts like drive-by shootings to earn credibility and to assimilate into gangs.

It's a really tragic fate that these kids are born into such a violent culture. Even though violent crime was super down this year it could still definitely be a lot (a lottt) lower. But in order of that to happen we have to change the culture in which inner-city kids are raised, and I really don't know how to do that but I wish I did. Maybe we could provide more funding for inner-city elementary schools and better after school programs but that's been tried dozens of times already in select regions and the result are less than satisfactory. Throwing money at this problem probably won't help unfortunately. I'd like to know of ways other areas are trying to combat violent culture so if anybody knows any people enlighten me. 

[uo111 5,282]

Idk, what he said wasn't smart, especially how he said it, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong.

Just because tragedies like this happen doesn't mean the rest of us get less rights.The second amendment doesn't disappear because a sick individual committed a heinous crime. And even if we made all guns illegal to own tomorrow, mad men would still be able to go out and purchase them on the black market. Weed and c-----e and other d--gs are also illegal and we spend billions of dollars trying to suppress that market and thousands of people still buy and use illegal d--gs every single day. To say that we can change an entire culture of violence just by making something illegal is so simple minded and short sighted.

No, they wouldn't.

Criminals break the law but they aren't crazy. And even criminals wouldn't sell guns to a crazy person, they would be more likely to beat them up and then steal any money they had on them to buy the gun with.

[MJHolland 12,725]

No, they wouldn't.

Criminals break the law but they aren't crazy. And even criminals wouldn't sell guns to a crazy person, they would be more likely to beat them up and then steal any money they had on them to buy the gun with.

How do you figure people buy meth? Don't you think the average meth head looks pretty crazy, even homeless?

And how about d--g lords in inner-cities? You don't think they'd be able to get guns? You don't think Mexico's economy wouldn't benefit from selling illegal weapons to souther americans?

Buddy, if you don't think a black market would be created out of the prohibition of firearms then please PLEASE do not reply. I don't care to speak with anyone about this intricate matter who doesn't posses minimal common sense. I cannot with the crazy liberal democrats on this website sometimes....... I wish I lived in your simple, simple world where there weren't crazy criminals hahahaha 

[uo111 5,282]

How do you figure people buy meth? Don't you think the average meth head looks pretty crazy, even homeless?

And how about d--g lords in inner-cities? You don't think they'd be able to get guns? You don't think Mexico's economy wouldn't benefit from selling illegal weapons to souther americans?

Buddy, if you don't think a black market would be created out of the prohibition of firearms then please PLEASE do not reply. I don't care to speak with anyone about this intricate matter who doesn't posses minimal common sense. I cannot with the crazy liberal democrats on this website sometimes....... I wish I lived in your simple, simple world where there weren't crazy criminals hahahaha 

The gun market is a lot more complicated than that.

That's like comparing buying candy to buying a car. This is why the arguements against gun control fall short. They just aren't well thought out. You're "hurrrr criminals hurrr guns hurrr" attitude is beyond stupid. The guns used in these shootings are obtained legally for a reason. The men/boys who do these shooting do not hang out around criminals nor would they be able to buy guns from them. If you honestly think a lowly d--g dealer is the same person selling guns on the black market, girlfriend please. :toofunny:

[MJHolland 12,725]

The gun market is a lot more complicated than that.

That's like comparing buying candy to buying a car. This is why the arguements against gun control fall short. They just aren't well thought out. You're "hurrrr criminals hurrr guns hurrr" attitude is beyond stupid. The guns used in these shootings are obtained legally for a reason. The men/boys who do these shooting do not hang out around criminals nor would they be able to buy guns from them. If you honestly think a lowly d--g dealer is the same person selling guns on the black market, girlfriend please.

Mkay. You come off like you know a lot about this topic and are very very educated. A+++++

[Bat 6,162]

 

Um, yes they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban_of_2013

http://amgoa.org/Proposed-Federal-Gun-Legislation-HB3497/Federal-Law/1387

http://amgoa.org/Proposed-Rhode-Island-Gun-Law-H6074/State-Law/30383

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=2671&GAID=13&DocTypeID=HB&SessionID=88&GA=99

https://legiscan.com/RI/text/S0517/2015

 

 

Good to see some people recognize the root of the problem. If u don't have the gun they can't shoot 20-30 people in a classroom.

[Goosey 3,017]

Good to see some people recognize the root of the problem. If u don't have the gun they can't shoot 20-30 people in a classroom.

None of that proposed legislation says anything about banning the type of gun used in this shooting.