Are Immigrants Really Freeloaders?

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

"The 50-state a--lysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that about 8.1 million of the 11.4 million illegal immigrants who were employed paid in excess of $11.8 billion in state and municipal taxes in 2012"

and

"Fifty-one percent of households headed by immigrants reported using at least one welfare program during 2012, based on the latest available data provided by the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation. That compares with just 30 percent of so-called native households that avail themselves of welfare programs, according to the report"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/immigrants-really-freeloaders-study-backs-100000707.html

 

These are interesting statistics.  

To me the need for a more streamlined immigration system to allow genuine people the ability to become American's while weeding out those with criminal or non beneficial goals. 

[Sia 314]

The immigrants bring d--gs and violence should leave america

and the one's who actually trying to make a living and supporting a family should be able to stay.

 

 

after all if you aren't a native american at some point your ancestors were immigrants 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voltaire 4,531]

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[PartySick 172,424]

Tbh the biggest issue is the tax thing. If you're an undocumented person, you're not in the system and you don't pay taxes so, while "freeloader" is a harsh word, it has a sense of accuracy to it in that case.

That being said, it isn't exactly easy to become a citizen. It took my step mother's mom eight years to become a citizen all while having the local police force threaten her with deportation if she "didn't play ball" whatever that means. 

It's a sensitive subject and there's so many different situations that there's no real clear answer to it. The only thing we can do is make it easier for people to become citizens. After that, if they're still undocumented and still not paying taxes to the system that supports them even though there's no excuse to, yes they are freeloaders. 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I always quote this on posts about immigration in the U.S., thank you for doing it for me!

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

"The 50-state a--lysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that about 8.1 million of the 11.4 million illegal immigrants who were employed paid in excess of $11.8 billion in state and municipal taxes in 2012"

and

"Fifty-one percent of households headed by immigrants reported using at least one welfare program during 2012, based on the latest available data provided by the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation. That compares with just 30 percent of so-called native households that avail themselves of welfare programs, according to the report"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/immigrants-really-freeloaders-study-backs-100000707.html

 

These are interesting statistics.  

To me the need for a more streamlined immigration system to allow genuine people the ability to become American's while weeding out those with criminal or non beneficial goals. 

Do you realize if you make minimum wage at 40 hours per week you are entitled to welfare? So I think the numbers of 51% are a little off. It doesn't mean they are not working it means they aren't paid enough. 

[Hurem 17,801]

I think they should ALL be documented and have no more rights than every other citizens.

[Voltaire 4,531]

Tbh the biggest issue is the tax thing. If you're an undocumented person, you're not in the system and you don't pay taxes so, while "freeloader" is a harsh word, it has a sense of accuracy to it in that case.

That being said, it isn't exactly easy to become a citizen. It took my step mother's mom eight years to become a citizen all while having the local police force threaten her with deportation if she "didn't play ball" whatever that means. 

It's a sensitive subject and there's so many different situations that there's no real clear answer to it. The only thing we can do is make it easier for people to become citizens. After that, if they're still undocumented and still not paying taxes to the system that supports them even though there's no excuse to, yes they are freeloaders. 

I always quote this on posts about immigration in the U.S., thank you for doing it for me!

This isn't very true. Undocumented doesn't automatically mean taxes aren't being paid.

"Undocumented immigrants paid $11.8 billion in state and local taxes 2012."

But you are absolutely correct that we need reform to allow people to immigrate properly. People often talk about how our ancestors "came off a boat legally" and this is sometimes true-- but it was at a time where standing in a line and being processed would/could effectively legalize you. One day. Maybe one week. Today? It can take people a decade or longer, and not for any benefit to our system or the immigrant.

[Riot Poof 2,236]

My immigrant mother has a job and does a lot of other work as errands and as ways to get more money despite having fibromyalgia, arthritis, diabetes, and possibly other diseases I don't know/forgot about. People who generalize immigrants as lazy or as freeloaders are being extremely unfair to people like my mom. I know a lot of immigrants who live an honest and productive life.

Also, being on welfare doesn't necessarily mean that these people aren't looking for jobs. IN ADDITION, it doesn't take much brain power to realize that most immigrants are at a more disadvantageous position than native-born Americans because they most likely come to the US to improve their currently-dismal economic situation, they most likely don't speak English, and their education might not mean much in the US (assuming that they even received substantial education). I read stories about immigrants who were doctors and sh¡t in the native countries, but their degrees meant nothing in the US, and thus they had to find work that was at a much lower level than their jobs back in their native countries. All this would explain why more immigrants are on welfare in comparison to native-born Americans.

[Iwontell 7,312]

It's easier said than done...the thing is immigration is ultimately a result of deep inequality. If underdeveloped countries' governments and the leaders of rich developed countries both wanted, they could create better conditions for people living in impoverished countries and that would prevent mass immigration...and yes, developed countries should help, bc a lot of their wealth comes from the exploitation, in one way or another, of poorer countries and their people (let's not forget that something like a quarter of the world were colonies not that long ago)...I'm not saying every country should be the same and have the same living conditions, what I'm saying is that if basic things like, food, education, sanitation, etc, were available to everybody immigration wouldn't be regarded as a solution by so many people and problems like wars and religious fanaticism (that lead ppl to leave certain regions) would be minimized...

[GloZell Green 11,723]

People do realize that all attempts to come as refugees are denied by he government, right? It costs so much to try to do that, and when denied, it's wasted money. I don't know any Mexican immigrants around here who benefit from the country's "help". I know mine doesn't, and the truth is that even though we struggle with money constantly, we'd rather not use it because we build independence. We're not the only immigrants here, I know all of my Asian friends use the countries benefits, so of course it annoys me when were blamed for everything. The truth is this country has gotten used to blaming its problems on others because they can't take responsibility for what they've done. They allowed others in here from Asian countries legally which are the ones using the benefits. We don't even get much benefits. We can never get any organ transplants, but they encourage us to give our organs? That just disgusts me beyond. We work hard, and without us, you would see your country break apart with economical issues. If you want us to go, we'll leave, but from Mexico we'll watch this country burn down and get destroyed for its debts, and when Americans try to enter our country for the same situation, let's just see if we'll let you in.

[Janet 1,417]

no.

 

/thread

[display name 4,360]

I wouldn't say that they are all freeloaders, but I can't say that your article has brought me to that conclusion. The original study makes it clear that those are not statistics, just estimates based on assumptions about illegal immigrants based on estimated household sizes, estimated amounts of undocumented immigrants within each state, et cetera.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I wouldn't say that they are all freeloaders, but I can't say that your article has brought me to that conclusion. The original study makes it clear that those are not statistics, just estimates based on assumptions about illegal immigrants based on estimated household sizes, estimated amounts of undocumented immigrants within each state, et cetera.

"http://itepnet.org/"

This was done by a real organization ... estimates are based on accrued data recovered by research and not guessing.

[display name 4,360]

"http://itepnet.org/"

This was done by a real organization ... estimates are based on accrued data recovered by research and not guessing.

I was not doubting the credibility of the organization, but they themselves made note of (at least) one limitation of their study in clarifying that data regarding undocumented immigrants is not well recorded. I am not saying that they made an uneducated guess. I am just saying that I doubt they have enough real data to make a claim about such a large amount of immigrants. Sure, they probably have the data to suggest that some undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Right there would be a statistic, but how many assumptions did they have to make about that statistic in order to make a generalization about 8.1 million?

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I was not doubting the credibility of the organization, but they themselves made note of (at least) one limitation of their study in clarifying that data regarding undocumented immigrants is not well recorded. I am not saying that they made an uneducated guess. I am just saying that I doubt they have enough real data to make a claim about such a large amount of immigrants. Sure, they probably have the data to suggest that some undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Right there would be a statistic, but how many assumptions did they have to make about that statistic in order to make a generalization about 8.1 million?

between 8 and 12 million ... I would trust that estimate.  Most of the latin American demographic is going to California,Arizona and Nevada...shoot I don't need to do any study personally, just go to LA or Vegas or Phoenix and travel thru some of the residential areas and tell me if you see any white people.