Disney releasing first teaser posters for "Alice in Wonderland 2" ...

[SKANK 14,288]

Clearly they haven't ruined one of my favorite books enough.

 

I read Alice In Wonderland recently and didn't like it, at all, I thought it was kind of awful actually. But maybe I missed something. What exactly about the book did you like?

[Kayla 7,595]

 

I read Alice In Wonderland recently and didn't like it, at all, I thought it was kind of awful actually. But maybe I missed something. What exactly about the book did you like?

I found it to be very different. There's a variety of things within the book. It's an easy read with literary merit. The history behind the book is interesting too- a lot of references to government, mathematics, and religion (although I may be remembering the religious references incorrectly....)
And the fact that a lot of what's in the book is inspired by things in Carroll's life. You can actually visit the garden and see the tree where he envisioned the Cheshire Cat sitting. :)

And the whole size changing thing was inspired by opium, I don't doubt, but also by migraines the author used to have which caused his depth perception to work improperly, causing items to look closer or farther away than they actually were. 

And I tend to like fantasy-type novels like that. My absolute favorite book is The Secret Garden, and a lot about Alice/Wonderland reminds me of why I like that book. 

 

EDIT: And on a personal level, I met my husband through our shared appreciation of the book, so it holds a special place in my heart for that reason as well. Then years later, a dear friend of mine randomly read me his favorite part of the book and it was a memory I recall very fondly. 

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

Praying it doesn't suck as much as the first one.

Sigh, doesn't sound too promising:

http://collider.com/alice-in-wonderland-2-footage-disappoints-disney-d23/ 

 

[SKANK 14,288]

I found it to be very different. There's a variety of things within the book. It's an easy read with literary merit. The history behind the book is interesting too- a lot of references to government, mathematics, and religion (although I may be remembering the religious references incorrectly....)And the fact that a lot of what's in the book is inspired by things in Carroll's life. You can actually visit the garden and see the tree where he envisioned the Cheshire Cat sitting. :)

And the whole size changing thing was inspired by opium, I don't doubt, but also by migraines the author used to have which caused his depth perception to work improperly, causing items to look closer or farther away than they actually were. 

And I tend to like fantasy-type novels like that. My absolute favorite book is The Secret Garden, and a lot about Alice/Wonderland reminds me of why I like that book. 

 

EDIT: And on a personal level, I met my husband through our shared appreciation of the book, so it holds a special place in my heart for that reason as well. Then years later, a dear friend of mine randomly read me his favorite part of the book and it was a memory I recall very fondly. 

A lot of things in the book being inspired by Carrol's life was actually one of the reason I wasn't unable to enjoy the book. It was eerie to read a children's book written by a known pedophile. You can't help but think the character of Alice is based on a girl he molested.

On a literary level, it just seemed really..poorly written..like the 50 Shades of Grey of surrealist fiction.

 

I guess it's just about personal preference.

 

 

[Kayla 7,595]

 

A lot of things in the book being inspired by Carrol's life was actually one of the reason I wasn't unable to enjoy the book. It was eerie to read a children's book written by a known pedophile. You can't help but think the character of Alice is based on a girl he molested.

On a literary level, it just seemed really..poorly written..like the 50 Shades of Grey of surrealist fiction.

 

I guess it's just about personal preference.

 

 

I don't know what my thoughts are on the pedophile accusations. I do know there is nothing confirming or suggesting he actually molested the girl, and the closest we have to that is that he "repressed his urges" if he was indeed a pedophile. 

Regardless, I do think that his relationship with the girl was weird at best. 

Literary level, it's not comparable to 50 Shades of Grey. It is an easy read, but there's symbolism and commentary on government and expectations of women during the time. Putting that on the same level as a Twilight fanfic made to rock the panties of teen Vampire novel enthusiasts isn't something I agree with. It also includes poems, smaller stories within the story, etc. 

[SKANK 14,288]

I don't know what my thoughts are on the pedophile accusations. I do know there is nothing confirming or suggesting he actually molested the girl, and the closest we have to that is that he "repressed his urges" if he was indeed a pedophile. 

Regardless, I do think that his relationship with the girl was weird at best. 

Literary level, it's not comparable to 50 Shades of Grey. It is an easy read, but there's symbolism and commentary on government and expectations of women during the time. Putting that on the same level as a Twilight fanfic made to rock the panties of teen Vampire novel enthusiasts isn't something I agree with. It also includes poems, smaller stories within the story, etc. 

 

No doubt about it, Alice is better then 50 Shades on every level. I was just making a comparison about how they stand up against their literary peers. Carrol is to Kafka what 50 Shades of Grey is to Story of the Eye. If you are into surrealism there are more worthwhile things to read then Alice, and if your into erotic fiction you should look further then 50 Shades.

 

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

 

A lot of things in the book being inspired by Carrol's life was actually one of the reason I wasn't unable to enjoy the book. It was eerie to read a children's book written by a known pedophile. You can't help but think the character of Alice is based on a girl he molested.

On a literary level, it just seemed really..poorly written..like the 50 Shades of Grey of surrealist fiction.

 

I guess it's just about personal preference.

 

 

It's very subjective and everyone has a different taste - Terry Pratchett for example loathes the Alice books too and doesn't understand the big influence in high and pop culture either.

I just want to point out that there's no real proof that he really was a pedophile; I highly recommend the book "The Annotated Alice: The Definitive Edition" by Martin Gardner - it explains absolutly everything and is really good researched. 

Regarding the literature itself: Carroll was probably the first that established "Nonsens literature" with "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found there" and "The Hunting of the Snark", you know back then every story and fairy tale had a "moral", so his books were highly praised for being so surreal and politically incorrect at the time. 

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Annotated_Alice 

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

Again, nothing to do with original second book:

http://www.slashfilm.com/alice-through-the-looking-glass-d23/ 

Sigh ...

[elijahfan 26,298]

... they should have never done a sequel. As much as I liked the characters, the first one is one of Tim Burton's worst films.

[SKANK 14,288]

It's very subjective and everyone has a different taste - Terry Pratchett for example loathes the Alice books too and doesn't understand the big influence in high and pop culture either.

I just want to point out that there's no real proof that he really was a pedophile; I highly recommend the book "The Annotated Alice: The Definitive Edition" by Martin Gardner - it explains absolutly everything and is really good researched. 

Regarding the literature itself: Carroll was probably the first that established "Nonsens literature" with "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found there" and "The Hunting of the Snark", you know back then every story and fairy tale had a "moral", so his books were highly praised for being so surreal and politically incorrect at the time. 

I don't like Terry Pratchett's books either, maybe I'm too hard to please.

If we had the same information about a popular living author that we do about Carrol regarding his dealings with children, there is no doubt the living author would be branded a pedophile by the public and put in a room with Jared from Subway. We just allow ourselves to create a fog of mystery about Carroll's relationship with children because of how long ago he lived.

Carroll wasn't the first to create "literary nonsense" he is just the definitive author of "literary nonsense." Which I like, I'm into literary nonsense, it's his actual style of writing that I dislike and think is poor.

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

 

I don't like Terry Pratchett's books either, maybe I'm too hard to please.

If we had the same information about a popular living author that we do about Carrol regarding his dealings with children, there is no doubt the living author would be branded a pedophile by the public and put in a room with Jared from Subway. We just allow ourselves to create a fog of mystery about Carroll's relationship with children because of how long ago he lived.

Carroll wasn't the first to create "literary nonsense" he is just the definitive author of "literary nonsense." Which I like, I'm into literary nonsense, it's his actual style of writing that I dislike and think is poor.

If you think so ...  

Possible - I don't know ... As I wrote, I researched all the biographies and the "All about Alice"-book. He certainly liked little girls at a level that was more than normal or at least acceptable nowdays. However, I do think there is no evidence at all that he really was s-xually attracted to them. 

He did photograph them in the nude, but only with permission from their mothers, and only if the children were completely at ease with it. He made sure that after his death those pictures were destroyed or returned to the children to prevent them from getting embarrassed. 
In his time making nude photographs of children wasn't uncommon; all Victorian artists did studies of child-nudes, it was a trendy subject for the time. 

When his child-friends grew up, they told only positive stories about their warm friendship. 

It is suggested that Carroll loved little girls so much because he had many sisters which he loved to entertain when he was a young boy. 

There are also rumors that he might have asked Alice Liddell for marriage and that is the reason for one missing page in his diary and why the mother of the Liddell sisters suddenly didn't want to have anything to do with Charles Lutwidge Dodgson anymore. 

Okay, I understand your opinion.  

[SKANK 14,288]

If you think so ...  

Possible - I don't know ... As I wrote, I researched all the biographies and the "All about Alice"-book. He certainly liked little girls at a level that was more than normal or at least acceptable nowdays. However, I do think there is no evidence at all that he really was s-xually attracted to them. 

He did photograph them in the nude, but only with permission from their mothers, and only if the children were completely at ease with it. He made sure that after his death those pictures were destroyed or returned to the children to prevent them from getting embarrassed. 
In his time making nude photographs of children wasn't uncommon; all Victorian artists did studies of child-nudes, it was a trendy subject for the time. 

When his child-friends grew up, they told only positive stories about their warm friendship. 

It is suggested that Carroll loved little girls so much because he had many sisters which he loved to entertain when he was a young boy. 

There are also rumors that he might have asked Alice Liddell for marriage and that is the reason for one missing page in his diary and why the mother of the Liddell sisters suddenly didn't want to have anything to do with Charles Lutwidge Dodgson anymore. 

Okay, I understand your opinion.  

 

His art is so little-girl-centric, when you combine that with what we know about his relationship with Alice Liddell, his nude photography, it just seems very likely that he was s-xually attracted to young girls. Which probably shouldn't prevent anyone from enjoying his work, a lot of brilliant artists have seedy personal lives.

I don't know, it's all very subjective. I think it might just come down to the fact that I didn't enjoy his books. But I'm glad you understand my opinion.

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

 

His art is so little-girl-centric, when you combine that with what we know about his relationship with Alice Liddell, his nude photography, it just seems very likely that he was s-xually attracted to young girls. Which probably shouldn't prevent anyone from enjoying his work, a lot of brilliant artists have seedy personal lives.

I don't know, it's all very subjective. I think it might just come down to the fact that I didn't enjoy his books. But I'm glad you understand my opinion.

Agree, it really seems very creepy.

You are welcome!