France prevents islamic terrorist attack

[lego 44,165]

That's not true. Jewish and Romani people are in Europe way more discriminated than Muslims and none of either group do nearly weekly trerrorist attacks. 

Also when you look at Islamic countries and how radical they are. 

"way more discriminated"... how would you know tho? You're not a Muslim. You didn't spend time in different muslim communities and talk about their struggles. Seriously how can you know?

And what type of discrimination are you talking about? Is it about holocaust jokes from some random racists on the street or discrimination in government, social offices, job interviews?

Do you know about experiments when someone named Ahmed applies for a job, the employer says you need to learn better ________(insert western language here) even if he actually speaks without an accent? Or he says "sorry we don't have any praying rugs". But when a native calls next, they're invited for an interview. Does this happen widely to Jewish people? I don't think so.

Also the secret agencies in West tend to choose a random muslim and try to make him informant, then if he doesn't agree they make his life living hell, so he goes from moderate to radical. It happened in UK with MI5. Does this happen to Jewish people?

Pregnant Muslim women attacked and beaten because of their headscarf, which other minority experiences this often?

And yeah look at all those countries torn with years and decades of war and who created it. Really surprising that there is space for radicalisation.

 

and if you wanted some receipts

 

 

British Muslims face worst job discrimination of any minority group, according to research

Religion now causes more prejudice than colour, new research finds

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslims-face-worst-job-discrimination-of-any-minority-group-9893211.html

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/jihadi-john-cage-emails-released#.nrylW8wKb

 

http://www.cageuk.org/press-release/jihadi-john-radicalised-britain

A January 2010 British Social Attitudes Survey found that the British public "is far more likely to hold negative views of Muslims than of any other religious group,"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia#cite_note-Galloway-125

 

 

Sorry my comment is more relevant to the situation ain Australia at the moment. 

You were not wrong at all. It's not just Australia.

[Melech 9,900]

"way more discriminated"... how would you know tho? You're not a Muslim. You didn't spend time in different muslim communities and talk about their struggles. Seriously how can you know?

And what type of discrimination are you talking about? Is it about holocaust jokes from some random racists on the street or discrimination in government, social offices, job interviews?

Do you know about experiments when someone named Ahmed applies for a job, the employer says you need to learn better ________(insert western language here) even if he actually speaks without an accent? Or he says "sorry we don't have any praying rugs". But when a native calls next, they're invited for an interview. Does this happen widely to Jewish people? I don't think so.

Also the secret agencies in West tend to choose a random muslim and try to make him informant, then if he doesn't agree they make his life living hell, so he goes from moderate to radical. It happened in UK with MI5. Does this happen to Jewish people?

Pregnant Muslim women attacked and beaten because of their headscarf, which other minority experiences this often?

And yeah look at all those countries torn with years and decades of war and who created it. Really surprising that there is space for radicalisation.

 

and if you wanted some receipts

 

 

British Muslims face worst job discrimination of any minority group, according to research

Religion now causes more prejudice than colour, new research finds

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslims-face-worst-job-discrimination-of-any-minority-group-9893211.html

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/jihadi-john-cage-emails-released#.nrylW8wKb

 

http://www.cageuk.org/press-release/jihadi-john-radicalised-britain

A January 2010 British Social Attitudes Survey found that the British public "is far more likely to hold negative views of Muslims than of any other religious group,"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia#cite_note-Galloway-125

 

 

You were not wrong at all. It's not just Australia.

Well, are you Jewish to make assumptions about that? I can say the same about you. 

I admit that I wrongly formulated that one sentence, but discrimination still happens to Jews and Romani. (Discrimination against Romani is the highest in Europe, this is a fact) 

To all the jobs thingy. I only know that my mother for example didn't got some jobs due to her accent in German. But all those things happened to Jews 70-90 years ago (in a waaaaay drastic form) and they didn't formed terrorist groups. 

To the woman with the headscarf. Well a 13 year old Jewish boy got beaten up for wearing a kippah.

I never denied islamphobia, but you act like Jews and Romani people have it like heaven in Europe, when Romani people are the ones with the highest discrimination against. I don't see them doing terror attacks and shooting.

Of course it's only a minority of Muslims who radicalized, but I think that Islam gives a good platform to be radical just like christians were during the crusade. It's not a competition. 

 

[lego 44,165]

Well, are you Jewish to make assumptions about that? I can say the same about you. 

I admit that I wrongly formulated that one sentence, but discrimination still happens to Jews and Romani. (Discrimination against Romani is the highest in Europe, this is a fact) 

To all the jobs thingy. I only know that my mother for example didn't got some jobs due to her accent in German. But all those things happened to Jews 70-90 years ago (in a waaaaay drastic form) and they didn't formed terrorist groups. 

To the woman with the headscarf. Well a 13 year old Jewish boy got beaten up for wearing a kippah.

I never denied islamphobia, but you act like Jews and Romani people have it like heaven in Europe, when Romani people are the ones with the highest discrimination against. I don't see them doing terror attacks and shooting.

Of course it's only a minority of Muslims who radicalized, but I think that Islam gives a good platform to be radical just like christians were during the crusade. It's not a competition. 

 

Islam is over 1400 years old and terrorist groups are rather new phenomena. You forgot to tell me when did Western countries invade jewish and romani countries and bomb them to the middle ages. This is where it all started and the reason is, these people want to bring that taste of war to the West. It's wrong, but it's an obvious truth.

Americans were the ones who trained Al Qaeda against the Russians. The Taliban were guests in the White House. They were called "brave warriors". After invasion of Iraq Saddam's army was all fired, where do you think they went? So called Arab spring was financed and supported by the West. Syrian rebel groups were trained and financed from the West. The terrorism didn't appear out of thin air.

When were romani and jewish people harrassed to work against other romani and jewish people by the government officials?

There is increase in popularity of Right Wing parties, anti-immigration policies and protests all over the Europe, which are always anti-Muslim too.

It's not only about not getting a job, it's ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED. Troubles with identity, not belonging anywhere, being oppressed, seeing injustice and other groups trying to offer something different.

You cannot compare WW to this, it's not the same. 

Where did I say it's like heaven for Jews and Romanis? Never. You are the one who said they have it way worse. And the systematic discrimination from government officials towards Jews is nowhere reported. People don't even recognize Jewish names and they're not refused jobs because of them.

I didn't talk about Romanis and job discrimination because they're specific group where huge number of them won't even send all their kids to primary school, like in South-eastern Europe and in North, where they have more options and benefits, many choose NOT to work.

You say it's not a competition, but you were the one who said to @Nicole that she's wrong and "Jews and Romanis have it way worse" without anything to back you up. 

And there were jewish terrorist groups in the past against the British and now there is a state sponsored terrorism, so yeah.

The killing of innocent civilians is wrong, no matter who does it and for what reason. Killing for the land is not any better.

[Melech 9,900]

Islam is over 1400 years old and terrorist groups are rather new phenomena. You forgot to tell me when did Western countries invade jewish and romani countries and bomb them to the middle ages. This is where it all started and the reason is, these people want to bring that taste of war to the West. It's wrong, but it's an obvious truth.

Americans were the ones who trained Al Qaeda against the Russians. The Taliban were guests in the White House. They were called "brave warriors". After invasion of Iraq Saddam's army was all fired, where do you think they went? So called Arab spring was financed and supported by the West. Syrian rebel groups were trained and financed from the West. The terrorism didn't appear out of thin air.

When were romani and jewish people harrassed to work against other romani and jewish people by the government officials?

There is increase in popularity of Right Wing parties, anti-immigration policies and protests all over the Europe, which are always anti-Muslim too.

It's not only about not getting a job, it's ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED. Troubles with identity, not belonging anywhere, being oppressed, seeing injustice and other groups trying to offer something different.

You cannot compare WW to this, it's not the same. 

Where did I say it's like heaven for Jews and Romanis? Never. You are the one who said they have it way worse. And the systematic discrimination from government officials towards Jews is nowhere reported. People don't even recognize Jewish names and they're not refused jobs because of them.

I didn't talk about Romanis and job discrimination because they're specific group where huge number of them won't even send all their kids to primary school, like in South-eastern Europe and in North, where they have more options and benefits, many choose NOT to work.

You say it's not a competition, but you were the one who said to @Nicole that she's wrong and "Jews and Romanis have it way worse" without anything to back you up. 

And there were jewish terrorist groups in the past against the British and now there is a state sponsored terrorism, so yeah.

The killing of innocent civilians is wrong, no matter who does it and for what reason. Killing for the land is not any better.

I know it's a new phenomena and I hope it get rid of it asap. Because I think it's also destroying huge parts of the Arab country and I think we can both agree that the Arabic world was once leading scientifically and socially compared to Europe. 

I think the difference is that Al Qaeda and the new kind of terrorist and extremists. (I might be wrong now, so please correct me if I'm wrong) But in the last years the salafi movement gained huge ground in Germany. I can assume where and why Al Qaeda began to exists and making terror, but I have the feeling that the Salafi movement were suddenly there. Al Qaeda didn't stand in the streets and gave away they (falsely) translation of the Quran while Salafists are standing all the time there.

Romani and Jewish people never were forced to work against each other. I guess because both groups always been a small minority. And the rising party are in all cases also anti-Romani. Not always anti-Jewish, but there are anti-semities in their groups. 

"It's not only about not getting a job, it's ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED. Troubles with identity, not belonging anywhere, being oppressed, seeing injustice and other groups trying to offer something different."

I think one of the main points is that there are a lot white christian Europeans who join the salafi movement for example. There are not oppressed, but seriously i don't know really why they join IS. Mostly for the adventure I guess.

 

To the Romani. Yeah I know that a lot not work. I guess that happens when your whole culture gets destroyed. 

 

[hmm 979]

It's not a competition.

 

Agreed in that this is the crux of the debate I guess, ranking how discriminated a group is won't solve the problems  All three of the groups mentioned (and others across europe) face massive discrimination that needs to be solved.

OT: Good news that the attack was stopped  

[Didymus 34,380]

This is a great addition to the discusion:

http://aeon.co/magazine/culture/the-appeal-of-isis-isnt-so-far-from-that-of-tolkien/

"Whether its central claim is an inscrutable dream of religiously legitimated sovereignty or a malleable delusion, the appeal of ISIS is easily abstracted from motives available to outsiders. It is, in the incisive words of the New York artist Molly Crabapple, a ‘cosplay Caliphate’, a dress-up festival of blood-soaked nostalgia whose very pretensions to antiquity mark it as the rankest kind of modern innovation."

[lego 44,165]

I know it's a new phenomena and I hope it get rid of it asap. Because I think it's also destroying huge parts of the Arab country and I think we can both agree that the Arabic world was once leading scientifically and socially compared to Europe. 

I think the difference is that Al Qaeda and the new kind of terrorist and extremists. (I might be wrong now, so please correct me if I'm wrong) But in the last years the salafi movement gained huge ground in Germany. I can assume where and why Al Qaeda began to exists and making terror, but I have the feeling that the Salafi movement were suddenly there. Al Qaeda didn't stand in the streets and gave away they (falsely) translation of the Quran while Salafists are standing all the time there.

Romani and Jewish people never were forced to work against each other. I guess because both groups always been a small minority. And the rising party are in all cases also anti-Romani. Not always anti-Jewish, but there are anti-semities in their groups. 

"It's not only about not getting a job, it's ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED. Troubles with identity, not belonging anywhere, being oppressed, seeing injustice and other groups trying to offer something different."

I think one of the main points is that there are a lot white christian Europeans who join the salafi movement for example. There are not oppressed, but seriously i don't know really why they join IS. Mostly for the adventure I guess.

 

To the Romani. Yeah I know that a lot not work. I guess that happens when your whole culture gets destroyed. 

 

I agree on the first paragraph.

I disagree on the term "salafi movement" because there are many different groups claiming to be "salafis" and they oppose each other. Some salafi scholars of Saudi Arabia, like Abdullah Bin Baz and Uthaymeen warned about dangers of Al Qaeda and Taliban, long before AQ became threat to the West. 

When white Europeans convert to Islam, they get sense of belonging to a larger community. If they were previously lonely, antisocial etc. these groups give them some hope. With conversion many face rejection and ridicule from their christian/atheist families. They too might face discrimination everywhere because of the way they look or because of religious practices. The problem among them is also ignorance of religion, there are groups and sects within Islam all pulling to their own side, claiming to be the "right one".

Also many of these converts who are "trying to help their people" and join IS, often have history of d--g abuse and criminal background. Notice how it's often said in the media "suspect was known to police / just came out of prison". 

 

[Melech 9,900]

I agree on the first paragraph.

I disagree on the term "salafi movement" because there are many different groups claiming to be "salafis" and they oppose each other. Some salafi scholars of Saudi Arabia, like Abdullah Bin Baz and Uthaymeen warned about dangers of Al Qaeda and Taliban, long before AQ became threat to the West. 

When white Europeans convert to Islam, they get sense of belonging to a larger community. If they were previously lonely, antisocial etc. these groups give them some hope. With conversion many face rejection and ridicule from their christian/atheist families. They too might face discrimination everywhere because of the way they look or because of religious practices. The problem among them is also ignorance of religion, there are groups and sects within Islam all pulling to their own side, claiming to be the "right one".

Also many of these converts who are "trying to help their people" and join IS, often have history of d--g abuse and criminal background. Notice how it's often said in the media "suspect was known to police / just came out of prison". 

 

I'm kinda ignorant when it comes to salafi movements, because I only see what a mess they cause for everyone (including muslims) in Germany, so thanks for teaching me on that.

I agree with the rest.