"She created the world we live in," Diplo says about Madonna

[Shadow 6,062]

Gaga took Madonna and did it even better and bigger.

Madonna isn't as innovative as you think, she too was influenced by those before her.

Innovation and influence go hand in hand...  

You say Madonna wasn't as innovative... When she basically created the template for future pop girls to follow... It is a well known fact that Madonna was one of Gaga's influences, as David Bowie, Freddie Mercury, Bruce Springsteen, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, Cher, Britney Spears, and Elton John. Madonna's innovation fed Gaga's, was a part that made her become Gaga.

[Jjang 2,262]

Gaga took Madonna and did it even better and bigger.

Madonna isn't as innovative as you think, she too was influenced by those before her.

Better? I love them both to death and I genuinely believe that none is better than the other.

Bigger? in what sense...

There is no denying that Madonna was too influenced by other artists, every artist is. But she is most definitely an original in a sense that she redefined what the parameters were for female performers and it wouldn't be reaching to say that she morphed what it means to be pop star, she introduced the industry to the concept of reinvention which further on became a necessity. 'There is an overwhelming amount of pressure on pop stars to reinvent themselves' - Gaga in 2013. Madonna was as well the first self savvy marketer of her kind, as many journalists went to name her "America's smartest businesswoman". And the list goes on and on. 

Its just crazy to see this kind of disacknowledge on a forum dedicated to pop culture.

[Whispering 18,865]

He also said that she created the universe, do you believe thats what he actually meant? listen, he's exaggerating to emphasize on the point he's making. This politically correct discussion is completely and utterly uncalled for, trying to hijack his sayings by focusing on details that were obviously enlarged and exaggerated for the sake of making a point is the weakest form of argument, nitpicking is so lame.

And her European dates did sell out in minutes, I do not track her ticket sales because I'm simply not interested in doing that, but I believe @Houdini has the receipts.

 

I commented on his statements, gave my opinion on two of the points he made. 

They are still trying to sell tickets to the O2, and are lowering prices. I know of fans at another music board who were pissed because now they are lowering prices to a third of what they paid. 

[ARTPOPdidntflop 3,987]

Better? I love them both to death and I genuinely believe that none is better than the other.

Bigger? in what sense...

There is no denying that Madonna was too influenced by other artists, every artist is. But she is most definitely an original in a sense that she redefined what the parameters were for female performers and it wouldn't be reaching to say that she morphed what it means to be pop star, she introduced the industry to the concept of reinvention which further on became a necessity. 'There is an overwhelming amount of pressure on pop stars to reinvent themselves' - Gaga in 2013. Madonna was as well the first self savvy marketer of her kind, as many journalists went to name her "America's smartest businesswoman". And the list goes on and on. 

Its just crazy to see this kind of disacknowledge on a forum dedicated to pop culture.

Ok but Madonna isn't relevant to me. Did Madonna worship Mozart? No.

Gaga is relevant to my generation and I feel like Gaga is better than Madonna.

Gaga is more down to earth and relatable, whereas I feel Madonna is just negative and doesn't respect those around her, which is the reason many don't respect her in the music industry. (Cher etc.)

 

Madonna had many influences herself, and she stole from a lot of people, there would be no Madonna without a Marilyn Monroe

[Jjang 2,262]

I commented on his statements, gave my opinion on two of the points he made. 

They are still trying to sell tickets to the O2, and are lowering prices. I know of fans at another music board who were pissed because now they are lowering prices to a third of what they paid. 

We will see once the boxscore is revealed. As I previously mentioned, I don't track her ticket sales, nor do I intend to do so. I don't trust the I know of fans at another music board argument, nothing personal, I just don't.

[Hexxx 2,244]

Well Madonna did push forwards a little with this one. I love Rebel Heart. It's so fun and it makes me happy. And I love the message and how thought provoking it is. IT IS if you listen to what she's saying. I love this album because it feels like IT'S HER. it comes from her heart. And it may not be as creative as her past work (90s) but as a Madonna fan, I applaud her on this one. It's a step forward and hopefully she'll pull out an album that's experimental or "creative." 

Now im gonna wait til the Rebel Heart Tour starts so she can dominate the other tours that are coming up.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

I think we all should acknowledge that Madonna is one of the biggest influences in modern pop stars but let's not say that she is the biggest or the only one. 

She didn't create the pop industry, she barely created anything of her own career. 

She was already hated and "old" when she released Confessions On A Dancefloor and Hard Candy but she still managed to achieve success with the albums and the singles. 

MDNA and Rebel Heart are completely different scenarios. The music is not excellent (and I'm being too nice), the music videos are boring and predictable, the performances are more of the same and the promotion is messy.

And Diplo talking about women having it harder seems like a joke. Wasn't him the one who created a fundraiser to get Taylor Swift and ass? Please, this guy is an idiot.

[Jjang 2,262]

Ok but Madonna isn't relevant to me. Did Madonna worship Mozart? No.

Gaga is relevant to my generation and I feel like Gaga is better than Madonna.

Gaga is more down to earth and relatable, whereas I feel Madonna is just negative and doesn't respect those around her, which is the reason many don't respect her in the music industry. (Cher etc.)

 

Madonna had many influences herself, and she stole from a lot of people, there would be no Madonna without a Marilyn Monroe

Well, I relate more to Madonna as a person. You see how that works? 

I'm not having this 'Is Madonna a good person ?' argument. I think its beyond stupid. This woman stuck her neck out for the LGBT community decades ago when it wasn't a hip thing to do, fought to break social taboos from topics like artistic freedom, woman's s-xuality to AIDS etc. And has recently built a respectful amount of schools in Malawi & launched campaigns to raise awareness for the importance of female education. Do I need to continue or did you get the point?

Marilyn Monroe was an actress, Madonna surely borrowed some imagery from her, but she was not the final say in Madonna's artistry, actually she wasn't even of significance from a non shallow perspective. Again, what made Madonna an original is her approach (to say the least). To put it in other words : Gaga did not contribute anything to the music industry that Madonna hadn't already contributed. And I know thats a stimulating statement, but if thats the only way to get my point across then let it be.

 

[ARTPOPdidntflop 3,987]

Well, I relate more to Madonna as a person. You see how that works? 

I'm not having this 'Is Madonna a good person ?' argument. I think its beyond stupid. This woman stuck her neck out for the LGBT community decades ago when it wasn't a hip thing to do, fought to break social taboos from topics like artistic freedom, woman's s-xuality to AIDS. And has recently built a respectful number of schools in Malawi & launched campaigns to raise awareness for the importance of female education. Do I need to continue or did you get the point?

Marilyn Monroe was an actress, Madonna surely borrowed some imagery from her, but she was not the final say in Madonna's artistry, actually she wasn't even of significance from a non shallow perspective. Again, what made Madonna an original is her approach (to say the least). To put it in other words : Gaga did not contribute anything to the music industry that Madonna hadn't already contributed. And I know thats a stimulating statement, but if thats the only way to get my point across then let it be.

 

Well i'm sorry to say but all of that doesn't reflect onto who Madonna is as a person now. Really speaks volumes as to how she's declined. She hasn't done anything useful for LGBT or Aids in the past 10+ yrs.

 

Lady gaga is a better musician than Madonna could ever be. Madonna could never pull off a Fame, ARTPOP or C2C era. Madonna still relied a lot on her physical beauty, something Gaga doesn't. That's something GAGA has contributed that donna hasn't

Also marilyn monroe was only 1 example sis

[Whispering 18,865]

We will see once the boxscore is revealed. As I previously mentioned, I don't track her ticket sales, nor do I intend to do so. I don't trust the I know of fans at another music board argument, nothing personal, I just don't.

A boxscores is a final number, not how the dates sold the first hour or day of where they are at right now... Which completely lines up with my original comment to you on this subject of the shows selling out eventually, which was, "Probably, especially since they are dropping ticket prices, which they needed to do."

I just asked over at another board and one of the guys who is a mod at a Madonna fansite said there are something like seven or eight sold out dates in Europe, less than a handful in the U.S. that are sold out at this time and none in Australia. Once again, this says nothing about how these dates will end up doing in the end, which is what we get from boxscores. I don't really care if you trust it of not, tbh. 

[Jjang 2,262]

Well i'm sorry to say but all of that doesn't reflect onto who Madonna is as a person now. Really speaks volumes as to how she's declined. She hasn't done anything useful for LGBT or Aids in the past 10 yrs

Also marilyn monroe was only 1 example sisShe declined because of plenty of reasons : 

If that does not reflect on her as a person then what does? voicing her opinion about a situation that happens to include your precious mommy fave?

"She hasn't done anything for LGBT or Aids in the past 10 yrs"

That's just incorrect. She is still one of the most active human rights advocate in the industry. Far more diverse and vocal in her political edge than Gaga.

 

A boxscores is a final number, not how the dates sold the first hour or day of where they are at right now... Which completely lines up with my original comment to you on this subject of the shows selling out eventually, which was, "Probably, especially since they are dropping ticket prices, which they needed to do."

I just asked over at another board and one of the guys who is a mod at a Madonna fansite said there are something like seven or eight sold out dates in Europe, less than a handful in the U.S. that are sold out at this time and none in Australia. Once again, this says nothing about how these dates will end up doing in the end, which is what we get from boxscores. I don't really care if you trust it of not, tbh. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-41311/Madonna-sells-minutes.html

http://www.japantoday.com/category/entertainment/view/madonnas-paris-concert-sells-out-in-5-minutes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawrence/2015/07/06/rebel-heart-tour-tickets-selling-fast-for-madonnas-stops-in-australia-new-zealand/

He was obviously referring to these news, he is not her manager, he just repeated what her previously heard. The fact being is that whether that piece of information is precisely correct or not is irrelevant to the point in hand.

Again, nothing personal, but I just don't trust what you say unless you link me to the post in that forum you visit.

 

[DrewStevens 5,249]

Will there ever be a thread about Madonna that doesn't end in the whole "Gaga is better, she has not been influenced by Madonna" VS "Without Madonna there will be no Gaga, she is the original"? It's getting ridiculous, mostly because both sides are wrong. Gaga has obviously been influenced by Madonna and Madonna has obviously been influenced by many other people. None of them have been original and no one owes them anything. 

[Whispering 18,865]

Again, nothing personal, but I just don't trust what you say unless you link me to the post in that forum you visit.

 

I will ask him tomorrow to give me a link to where he found the information of how he knew it. He was heading to bed. 

And no way am I providing a link to the music forum! It's mostly radio people and they would kill me if I started bringing in a bunch of hysterical ATRL trained teens to our nice, little forum! 

[Jjang 2,262]

Will there ever be a thread about Madonna that doesn't end in the whole "Gaga is better, she has not been influenced by Madonna" VS "Without Madonna there will be no Gaga, she is the original"? It's getting ridiculous, mostly because both sides are wrong. Gaga has obviously been influenced by Madonna and Madonna has obviously been influenced by many other people. None of them have been original and no one owes them anything. 

Again, its not about an image or a beat or a song. Its about the approach of the artist. In theory, nothing is original. I agree 100%, but Madonna's approach is the closest thing to originality in the pop world parameters.

I will ask him tomorrow to give me a link to where he found the information of how he knew it. He was heading to bed. 

And no way am I providing a link to the music forum! It's mostly radio people and they would kill me if I started bringing in a bunch of hysterical ATRL trained teens to our nice, little forum! 

I guess that forum is made exclusively for pretentious snobs then. 

[Whispering 18,865]

I guess that forum is made exclusively for pretentious snobs then. 

Nope. More like made for music and number nerds. Lol It just doesn't have a lot of people who concern themselves with diva wars. We mostly discuss numbers, radio talk, and music industry news and trends. The discussions there are less emotional and more a--lytical.