Maybe ARTPOP deserved its "underperformance"

[giskardsb 12,565]

​I really don't think that The Fame Monster sounds 2009

 

Most of TFM sounds like 1985. 

Most of TF sounds like 1975. 

The only reason POp fans think things sound "fresh" is because they are young and have little sense of music history. 

[djBuffoon 12,110]

​I really don't think that The Fame Monster sounds 2009 at all, but i guess that's just how you see/hear things  Except for DWUW and Applause, i feel like TFM sounds even less dated in 2015 than ARTPOP does!

It's great that Gaga doesn't really care about radios and so on, but we all know that in the end : SHE WANTS SUCCES, just as every musician. And what i had a problem with is more that she said herself that "every song was made for radio" (something amongst those lines), when it's truly not the case  

I mean Venus on the radio? I like the song but i don't see it tbh 

​What's funny is that "Applause" sounds probably the "oldest" of them all, to me. "Mary Jane", "Sexxx Dreams", and most of the tracks in general have elements that are directly lifted from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, but I don't think the way they are assembled sounds stale at all. It's decidedly retro.

And the more I think about that quote, the more I think she said that to calm fans' nerves. The more I listen to ARTPOP, it's pretty clear that very few of these tracks fit any particular mold that is happening now or then. Whether it's the aggressive sounds or the subject matter or the genre of the song, I don't believe she wrote ARTPOP with radio success in mind.

As for The Fame Monster, which I adore, listen to "So Happy I Could Die" or "Telephone". To my ears, that kind of production quality wouldn't fly these days.

[Sebs 1,809]

it's 2015. get over it.

[OBEY 57,109]

​stopped reading there    

​It's an opinion thread. Where i stated my own opinion about ARTPOP.

I'm sorry you seem to disagree, but i'm even more sorry that it seems you can't even read a post from a person who has another opinion than yours?

[Florian 19,952]

Simply no! People hated Gaga, no matter what she would have released it wouldn't have performed better

Exactly. Moreover, the ARTPOP "failure" was predictable :  BTW ran out of steam with Y&I and MTN for this exact reason, the GP hated Gaga. During the BTW era, Gaga simply scared the GP. As she admitted, she was perceived too gay and the GP didn't want to be associated with this gay label so people ran away from Gaga. Furthermore, she was too present in the media : the BTW promo was HUGE, she was everywhere. TV,Music channels, TV shows, radio, magazines, newspapers, it was too much for the GP to handle her gay message (not that it's a bad thing, but GP wasn't here for it)​

She probably  shouldn't have named it ARTPOP.  Art is a loaded term that set people up with all kinds of different expectations.  Most of her fans don't even know what she meant by it even if she explained it a bunch of times.  Unfortunately in the Pop world it's better to be generic so people don't have to think much or be involved to understand the artist. 

​THIS. Honestly, the whole concept of ARTPOP is brilliant, bring Art into Pop Music but the concept sounds really arrogant (that's the firt problem). The promo was based on how Gaga was artsy and creative (I want to put the art onto the soup can, I'm every icon, I'm a canvas, ...). People were already bored with the "too gay" speech and she came back with a "too artsy" and "arrogant" concept. 

But also, people waited for ART into POP musically (and it wasn't the aim of this album at all), and that's why media never write dithyrambic articles about ARTPOP. And Media even based its critics on the lack of sonic art (which is almost impossible to do honestly).

[codymonster 8,564]

ARTPOP remains to be my fav album by her, so... 

[djBuffoon 12,110]

​THIS. Honestly, the whole concept of ARTPOP is brilliant, bring Art into Pop Music but the concept sounds really arrogant (that's the firt problem). The promo was based on how Gaga was artsy and creative (I want to put the art onto the soup can, I'm every icon, I'm a canvas, ...). People were already bored with the "too gay" speech and she came back with a "too artsy" and "arrogant" concept. 

But also, people waited for ART into POP musically (and it wasn't the aim of this album at all), and that's why media never write dithyrambic articles about ARTPOP. And Media even based its critics on the lack of sonic art (which is almost impossible to do honestly).

​This I will agree with. She didn't phone in her work on the album, and I think the music is as fabulous as it's ever been. But if only it had been called Venus or Gypsy or something, it would have fared much better on all fronts.

On the other hand, I could argue that ARTPOP is more about art and creation than The Fame Monster is about either fame or monsters, but that's a whole other thread.

[Dominikko 355]

​So do I for this one

Did i lie tho

[giskardsb 12,565]

 

On the other hand, I could argue that ARTPOP is more about art and creation than The Fame Monster is about either fame or monsters, but that's a whole other thread.

The "monster" theme always felt applied after the fact to me to add cohesiveness where there really isn't any. 

[Dominikko 355]

Exactly. Moreover, the ARTPOP "failure" was predictable :  BTW ran out of steam with Y&I and MTN for this exact reason, the GP hated Gaga. During the BTW era, Gaga simply scared the GP. As she admitted, she was perceived too gay and the GP didn't want to be associated with this gay label so people ran away from Gaga. Furthermore, she was too present in the media : the BTW promo was HUGE, she was everywhere. TV,Music channels, TV shows, radio, magazines, newspapers, it was too much for the GP to handle her gay message (not that it's a bad thing, but GP wasn't here for it)​

​THIS. Honestly, the whole concept of ARTPOP is brilliant, bring Art into Pop Music but the concept sounds really arrogant (that's the firt problem). The promo was based on how Gaga was artsy and creative (I want to put the art onto the soup can, I'm every icon, I'm a canvas, ...). People were already bored with the "too gay" speech and she came back with a "too artsy" and "arrogant" concept. 

But also, people waited for ART into POP musically (and it wasn't the aim of this album at all), and that's why media never write dithyrambic articles about ARTPOP. And Media even based its critics on the lack of sonic art (which is almost impossible to do honestly).

This. The album was hyped so much but all we got was an EDM album with a famous painting as album cover.

[Florian 19,952]

​This I will agree with. She didn't phone in her work on the album, and I think the music is as fabulous as it's ever been. But if only it had been called Venus or Gypsy or something, it would have fared much better on all fronts.

On the other hand, I could argue that ARTPOP is more about art and creation than The Fame Monster is about either fame or monsters, but that's a whole other thread.

​Exactly. She should choose a less ambiguous title but keep the ARTPOP concept for the promo, toning it down a bit to not seem pretentious.

Moreover, the explainations Gaga gave about the concept of The Fame Monster are enough for me. The fears of fame (alcohol, s-x, loneliness, ...) for each song is quite relevant in my opininon.

[Cupid Boy 410]

I agree with you about the No.2 & 3 ....

Gaga has used a lot of metaphors for the ARTPOP's song Which has caused people didnt connect with it very well like Venus,MJH,Aura,Jewels n' Drugs , ARTPOP and maybe applause ...

i think that ARTPOP is for fan not general public & normal people so  facing with that situation was not unexpected 

[djBuffoon 12,110]

The "monster" theme always felt applied after the fact to me to add cohesiveness where there really isn't any. 

​Agreed.

 

Moreover, the explainations Gaga gave about the concept of The Fame Monster are enough for me. The fears of fame (alcohol, s-x, loneliness, ...) for each song is quite relevant in my opininon.

Her explanations managed to give each individual song more substance in hindsight (even "Telephone", which I find to be insipid anyway), but their connection to each other is, for me, a bit flimsy. Doesn't even matter though, because the songs themselves are a blast.

[Bt1 5,213]

Music was not a problem. The baf management was and the press attitude. You say that singles can do good on their own after the album is out, but in this situation the lack of Dwuw video simply destroyed everything. They even announced GUY as a single only 2 months after Dwuw was dead. It is really hard to recover from that, especially with a song that wasnt the obvious single material like Gypsy and Venus were.

[LoveandMagic 1,731]

Well, I like ARTPOP but it had to grow on me a bit. Plus the era was very messy, and I think that strongly affected people's perceptions on the album. 

Here's the thing: Sound wise, I personally think it's a good album (standing on it's own). I don't think it's up there with her last three though. To me, most of the tracks sound like stuff I have heard from Gaga before. I also think that had her original concepts seen fruition (like putting more ART into the POP) it could have been an amazing era and would have received more praise and sold more. So in that sense, I think it did underperform (not flopped). I also think that part of the problem was that she hyped it for so long, yet there wasn't as much promo (or consistant themes) as there should have been. Then you have the additional mess of missing videos, changing out singles, etc. It was a very, very bumpy era, and sadly that reflected on the album. Had the promotion and themes stayed strong (and true to the original concepts) throughout the era, I think people (by and large) would have had a different take on the music.

Personally I would have liked a bit more experimentation in the sound and more artistic concepts. I think many fans and GP was expected that (based on previous statements beforehand) and they didn't think that was delivered. I think that's essentially what the problem is that many people had. 

HOWEVER, I will say that a lot of fans seem to be coming around toward the album so maybe the perception of it (in general) will be very different five years from now. Bottom line though is that if a person loves the album and connected to it, then it's a success. A lot of fans here have done just that, which explains so many of these threads.