Israel/Palestine Conflict Thread

[lego 44,165]

 

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem. 

That evening the Irgunists and the Sternists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies they amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car. This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10. 

A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern Gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July 1946. A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University's Center for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120". 

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent "mopping up" operations. 

They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield." 

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:

Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of "Irgun butchery," were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.

Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har  Nof on the western slopes of the mountain. 

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world. 

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

 

The deaths became a pivotal event in the Arab–Israeli conflict for their demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians against Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms, thus blackening Israel's name around the world.[7] News of the killings sparked terror among Palestinians, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

[lego 44,165]

 

SURVIVOR RECOLLECTIONS FROM DEIR YASSIN

 

Mr. Fahimi Zeidan, 12: "The Jews ordered all our family to line up against the wall and they started shooting us. I was hit in the side, but most of us children were saved because we hid behind our parents. The bullets hit my sister Kadri [four] in the head, my sister Sameh [eight] in the cheek, my brother Mohammed [seven] in the chest. But all the others with us against the wall were killed: my father, my mother, my grandfather and grandmother, my uncles and aunts and some of their children." 

 

Ms. Haleem Eid, 30: "A man [shot] a bullet into the neck of my sister Salhiyeh who was nine months pregnant. Then he cut her stomach open with a butcher's knife." 

 

Ms. Naaneh Khalil, 16, saw a man: "take a kind of sword and slash my neighbor Jamil Hish from head to toe then do the same thing on the steps to my house to my cousin Fathi." 

 

Ms. Safiyeh Attiyah, 41: "I screamed but around me other women were being raped too. Some of the men were so anxious to get our earrings they ripped our ears to pull them off faster." 

 

Mr. Mohamed Jaber, student, "The Jews [broke] in, [drove] everybody outside, put them against the wall and shot them. One of the women was carrying a three month old baby." 

 

Survivors' testimonies

 

Source: alnakba site. 3 eyewitness testimonies of the Deir Yassin massacre as told to journalist Elias Zananiri, previously published in 9.4.1997 in "Gulf News". On the eve of April 9th 1948, armed members of Jewish underground groups attacked the village, a strategic site towering Jerusalem from the West. After the fall of Al Qastal a few days earlier and the killing of Palestinian guerrilla leader Abdul Qader Al Husseini, Deir Yassin became the most important point on the road to Jerusalem.  

 

TESTIMONY I: M.A.R. Al Y. (Abu Mahmud) 70, currently lives in the Old City of Jerusalem, below are excerpts from his testimony: "I was in the village when the Jews attacked. I and my colleagues were on the western side of the village, opposite Al Qastal. We had our guns on us. All villagers, mainly the youths, were ready for whatever may happen after the Qastal battle was over." 

 

"By 1630 on Thursday 8 April 1948, Abdul Qader Husseini was killed as we were watching the battle from a distance. After his death, we took precautionary measures in case anything would happen: We guarded the village until 0230 the next morning when the Jews started entering the village with the use of spot and search lights looking for our fighters." 

 

"The Jews closed on the village amid exchanges of fire with us. Once they entered the village, fighting became very heavy in the eastern side and later it spread to other parts, to the quarry, to the village center until it reached the western edge. The battle was on three fronts, east, south and north. The Jews used all sorts of automatic weapons, tanks, missiles, cannons. They used to enter houses and kill women and children indiscriminately. The youths in the village fought bravely against them and the fighting continued until it was around 1530 afternoon. We had no aid or support from any party." 

 

"They took about 40 prisoners from the village. But after the battle was over, they took them to the quarry where they shot them dead and threw their bodies in the quarry. After they removed their dead and wounded, they took the prisoners and killed them. They took the elderly prisoners, women and men and took them out of the village, yet they killed the youths." 

 

"They called on us to surrender, to throw our weapons and to save ourselves. But we did not imagine them breaking into the village. We expected the fighting to last one or two hours, after which they would retreat. But they continued the fighting (...)." 

 

"We had trenches. The Jews filled one of those trenches with sand and rocks in order for their tanks to cross. When we hit the tank, it started firing from its machine-guns at our positions in the western edge of the village.(...)" 

 

 

"I remember, from what my uncle�s wife told me, that an uncle of mine who was a schoolmaster, had killed the commander of the invading gangs on the staircase of one of the houses and later he disappeared for three days. Then, they found him with his mother, originally from Latakia in Syria, they saw him with her, his name was Ribhi Atiyyeh. She disguised him in women's clothes to make sure that she could get him out of the village. They identified that he was a man; they opened fire and killed him. That is what I heard from my uncle�s wife, but I did not see it happening before my eyes.(...)" 

 

"After the June 1967 war, I met a Jewish eyewitness, Ibrahim Najjar (Israeli of Arab extraction), who lived in Givat Shaul and whom I had known before 1948. He took me to visit the village, as we arrived, I stood by the well and read some verses from the Koran. He told me not to do that. "There isn�t anybody here. Come with me and I will show you were they were all buried." He took me to the quarry where he said: "Here is where you should read the Koran." Two Jews held a body of an Arab dead and threw it down in the valley, some 20 meters in depth. That is were they threw bodies of the 14 martyrs who were killed there." 

 

TESTIMONY II: Um Mahmud, wife of Abu Mahmud, was 15 years old at the time. "We were inside the house. We heard shooting outside. My mother woke us up. We knew the Jews had attacked us. My cousin and his sister came running and said the Jews were already in our garden. In the meantime, fighting became heavier and we heard lots of gunshots outside. A bomb was thrown at us and it exploded close to where we were in the yard. (...) My sister- in-law did not want to leave. She was frightened. The girl was two months old and the boy about three. I took the two and my mother said we should go to my uncle�s house. I saw how Hilweh Zeidan was killed, along with her husband, her son, her brother and Khumayyes. Hilweh Zeidan went out to collect the body of her husband. They shot her and she fell over his body (...). I also saw Hayat Bilbeissi, a nurse from Jerusalem serving in the village, as she was shot before the house door of Musa Hassan. The daughter of Abu El Abed was shot dead as she held her niece, a baby. The baby was shot too (...). Whoever tried to run away was shot dead." 

 

TESTIMONY III: A.Y.J., Abu Yousef, also 70 years old. He lives in Am�ari refugee camp near Ramallah. "(...) After the battle, the Jews took elderly men and women and youths, including 4 of my cousins and a nephew. They took them all. Women, who had on them gold and money, were stripped of their gold. After the Jews removed their dead and wounded, they took the men to the quarry and sprayed them all with bullets. (...) One woman had her son taken some 40 to 60 meters away from where she and the rest of the women stood by, and shot him dead. Then they brought Jewish kids to throw stones at his body. They later poured kerosene on his body and set it ablaze while the women watched from a distance. We later collected ourselves, & checked who was missing. At Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, we were gathered by the Arab Supreme Committee. Each of us was looking for a son, a daughter, a sister or a mother. All men were busy fighting. Eyewitnesses were only women. The elderly men were told to remove the dead, both Arabs and Jews. They took the bodies of the Jews and left the Arab bodies until they later were thrown in a well in the village center."

 

http://www.deiryassin.org/survivors.html

 

[Melech 9,900]

Dude.. There are big communities and organizations of Jews that do not approve of Israel's creation that live in the U.S. and Europe.

Why are you ? 

I have tons of anti-semitic stories to share that my family suffered from. I didn't deny that there are organizations of Jews that don't approve Israels creation (mainly Hasidic). 

Though I read an article lately that the majority of German (non hasidic) Jews for example stand behind Israel. 

What happened that time in Baghdad was inhumane and awful and any sane person condemns it, but it doesn't justify what is being done to Palestinians from 1947 till present day. 

That was in 1941, and Zionists Europeans began their immigration in late 19th century, before the World Wars. Nazis went to ME to spread their propaganda and ideology using the fear Arabs had from the waves of new migrants.

I was talking about centuries before of living in peace when Muslims ruled Andalusia, it was a Jewish Golden Age and same with the Ottoman Empire, their rule was spread from Palestine to Balkans. They were following same Qur'an and they were even more religious than today, but they didn't hate and kill Jews in masses just because they were Jews. They took them under their protection from Catholic inquisitors. And even during the WWII there are examples where muslim woman in Balkans covered her Jewish neighbours David star. So what Zionists are trying to propagate today is false, the conflict is not mostly religious based, otherwise how can you explain the harasment and confiscation of property of Palestinian Christians to this present day?

And how was that 'needed state' created?

With terrorism.

Read about zionist paramilitary terrorist groups Irgun, Lehi (offshoots of Hagganah  which later became IOF) and the atrocities they committed.

" Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.[2] Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[2] During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles"."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

 

The often forgotten massacre everyone should know about; read about Deir Yassin and survivors' testimonies.

 

I said in quote that it isn't necessary muslim extremism since anti-Semitism is/were alive in a lot places. I think Albania has ,for example, the highest rate of surviving Jews in Europe and it's a Muslim majority country

 

 

[Melech 9,900]

Dude.. There are big communities and organizations of Jews that do not approve of Israel's creation that live in the U.S. and Europe.

Also, do black people, gays and other socially persecuted minorities deserve their own country as well? Do Muslims?

gays have nothing to do with it. They are not ethnically persecuted. 

Black people have black majority countries, so do have Muslims. There are enough islamic countries. 

[lego 44,165]

Thank you! I appreciate it a lot!

Just to be clear, I'm not Zionist at all I didn't even served at the IDF (was in jail, but was worth it).

I believe that no one is right in this conflict, both made mistakes, and tbh both are behaving in the same violent way, I don't like the idea that puts the Jewish and Israelis as the victims all the time.. sometimes we are wrong too and many times we bring the hate to ourselves.. example: when they say "we are the chosen one" in a very egoistic way, this sentence easily brings hate toward them.

I just want to live in peace in this world.. I see the earth as my home and not a specific country and especially the country I was born, it's not my fault that I was born in Israel.. I'm against the idea of countries.. it's another way of the powerful and evil politicians and extremists to hold us, as human beings, to live in peace with each other, to share cultures, to find love, to just live peacefully every day..

 

So much respect for choosing jail over serving IDF.

Great post.

[Didymus 34,380]

Why are you ? 

I have tons of anti-semitic stories to share that my family suffered from. I didn't deny that there are organizations of Jews that don't approve Israels creation (mainly Hasidic).

Your family/your country isn't "all Jews living outside of Israel" though. You should be more careful with saying things like that.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Blah blah blah,  long posts that all say the exact same thing.....Isreal shouldn't exist, Palestinians are the only victims... Blah blah blah ....

isrsel or not,  a lot of the Palestianian problems are solvable,  their own leadership and apparently 1/3 of their population that support them prevent it.

[Didymus 34,380]

gays have nothing to do with it. They are not ethnically persecuted. 

Black people have black majority countries, so do have Muslims. There are enough islamic countries. 

They are being mocked, bullied, attacked, imprisoned and murdered for an element of their natural identity they refuse to remove. It's not the same thing, but it's way too similar to leave your "only Jews - as a social group that faces discrimination - deserve their own country to be safe" theory intact.

I won't even acknowledge the second sentence which is too disgusting and wrong to even think about.

[Didymus 34,380]

Blah blah blah,  long posts that all say the exact same thing.....Isreal shouldn't exist, Palestinians are the only victims...

lmao no one said that in the last two pages. No one. Stop.

[lego 44,165]

Blah blah blah,  long posts that all say the exact same thing.....Isreal shouldn't exist, Palestinians are the only victims... Blah blah blah ....

isrsel or not,  a lot of the Palestianian problems are solvable,  their own leadership and apparently 1/3 of their population that support them prevent it.

You didn't even read any of them. 

But disrespect and mocking towards non Jewish victims is something very common in your posts.

[Melech 9,900]

Your family/your country isn't "all Jews living outside of Israel" though. You should be more careful with saying things like that.

then let's say all Jews that I know in Germany?! Fact is that you are not jewish background and you don't know how it feels to get anti-semitism. I got in huge identity crisis, trying to hide my identity and searching other institution, which I gladly got rid off. 

They are being mocked, bullied, attacked, imprisoned and murdered for an element of their natural identity they refuse to remove. It's not the same thing, but it's way too similar to leave your "only Jews - as a social group that faces discrimination - deserve their own country to be safe" theory intact.

I won't even acknowledge the second sentence which is too disgusting and wrong to even think about.

What I was trying to say that there is no place where Jews can hide. Sorry if it came across racist. 

[hmm 979]

gays have nothing to do with it. They are not ethnically persecuted. 

Black people have black majority countries, so do have Muslims. There are enough islamic countries. 

What about the Romani people or the native Americans then, they're both ethnic groups discriminated against without a sovereign nation that they're majority in? 

[Melech 9,900]

What about the Romani people or the native Americans then, they're both ethnic groups discriminated against without a sovereign nation that they're majority in? 

I'm all in favor of both getting their own states. If you didn't realize it but I always been vocal for both minorities. 

I also support a two-state solution for this conflict btw.

[hmm 979]

I'm all in favor of both getting their own states. If you didn't realize it but I always been vocal for both minorities. 

So the idea is to separate different ethnic groups in an attempt to solve the problem of racism they face? That's counter-productive and would only cause further problems  

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

One accurate statement that I just read ....  I don't respect some opinions and therefore do not quote or respond to them ...

 

as as for the victims ... BS ...  Attempts to aid them get mis directed ... Currently the aid poring into Gaza is helping the needy ...  Inspections are needed to insure that rockets and bombs aren't included to aid those with other intentions