Israel/Palestine Conflict Thread

[Melech 9,900]

Exactly. All of my grandparents (and they're families) had to flee and leave all their property in both Iraq & Morocco because Muslim world became dangerous for Jews when Israel was established. That's just as bad as what happened with Palestinians during '47-'48

Yes. Jews all over the world were basically refugees. European jews lost their home and families during the 40's and didn't had a home after WW2 and then the persecution of Jews in the Islamic countries. People always blame Israel and deny its existence but I wonder what those people think were Jews should go without living in danger? 

[Pandemiya 61]

You destroyed your argumentation with Read the bible.

First, the Bible isn't science. Second , if Israel exists it has a lot to do with Sionist, they were mostly atheist jews. Third, if you only use the excuse of who was there first, let's reorganise the whole world then...You can't use that to move a whole village because 1000 years ago some people who could be relatives to nowadays Israeli (because come on, Jews is a religion of convert, especially the one from balkans and eastern europe) makes no sense whatsoever... 

 

Israel existed with Zionists 3,000 years ago? You've just beaten the record with the most ignorance in a post.

First, Zionism didn't exist 3,000 years ago, but at least you tried. 1,000 years ago, like you say, were the Medieval Ages, it was 1,000 years after the Israelite Diaspora.  

Judaism is the religion, not "Jews"   And no, it's not a religion of convert. It is a religion that has been passed down by my forefathers for 3,000+ years now. Whatever argument you're trying to create is invalid.

What the **** is "Palestine"? It's a fake country with no history. Never did I say the bible was science. The oldest written work of text by the Israelites in Babylonian captivity wrote the Torah, with stories that were passed down to them. That was thousands of years ago, before the Romans seized Israel and renamed it to Palaestina. 

theres religious supremacy on both sides especially with the jewish idea of themselves as "the chosen people" . with the demolishing of palestinian homes and jewish settlements it seems like both sides are guilty of that. and then theres that whole dumb "we were here first" attitude the jews have based on the idea of the bible as "proof".

imo its moore about people losing their homes than religion.

Luiz, I think you are better with this subject than certain others, don't go to those deep ends to change that view of you. I don't care if we're chosen or not, all I give 1 **** about is that we were here first, and the Torah is just an addition of proof, alongside the archaeological evidence, the primary sources other than Israelites, etc. It's rich with proof that we were here. Do you know what an Arab is? An Arab is a Jew + a Black Egyptian. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Unlike Assyrians and Kurds which share a common ancestor with the Israelites, the Arabs descended from Abraham who was an Israelite. The bible isn't 100% true, but it's neither 100% fake. The creation of the Ishmaelites is accurate and proven by genetics. The Bedouin Arabs are not the same as Qedarites, or Sabaeans. I recommend you and anyone else to read this essay, it's very informative.

[Pandemiya 61]

I do care about Jewish people, I don't think they're evil.

You're putting words in my mouth, this is bullying.

Hm? You said it's not fair for those palestinians who are definitley native to that area to be swept under the rug? 

Yet not a single person in this thread who supports the Arab side says a thing about the true natives to Israel, and what happened to them in Muslim countries?  

[TiphEret 1,320]

 

Israel existed with Zionists 3,000 years ago? You've just beaten the record with the most ignorance in a post.

First, Zionism didn't exist 3,000 years ago, but at least you tried. 1,000 years ago, like you say, were the Medieval Ages, it was 1,000 years after the Israelite Diaspora.  

Judaism is the religion, not "Jews"   And no, it's not a religion of convert. It is a religion that has been passed down by my forefathers for 3,000+ years now. Whatever argument you're trying to create is invalid.

What the **** is "Palestine"? It's a fake country with no history. Never did I say the bible was science. The oldest written work of text by the Israelites in Babylonian captivity wrote the Torah, with stories that were passed down to them. That was thousands of years ago, before the Romans seized Israel and renamed it to Palaestina. 

Luiz, I think you are better with this subject than certain others, don't go to those deep ends to change that view of you. I don't care if we're chosen or not, all I give 1 **** about is that we were here first, and the Torah is just an addition of proof, alongside the archaeological evidence, the primary sources other than Israelites, etc. It's rich with proof that we were here. Do you know what an Arab is? An Arab is a Jew + a Black Egyptian. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Unlike Assyrians and Kurds which share a common ancestor with the Israelites, the Arabs descended from Abraham who was an Israelite. The bible isn't 100% true, but it's neither 100% fake. The creation of the Ishmaelites is accurate and proven by genetics. The Bedouin Arabs are not the same as Qedarites, or Sabaeans. I recommend you and anyone else to read this essay, it's very informative.

you are putting wording my mouth I never said sionisme existed 3000 years ago but that the current state of Israel exists because of sionisme. Anyway I am at a festival now and don't feel like discussing that it's pointless as everybody has their opinion and and don't want to have a respectful debate just drag people down.  So have a good week you all

[Pandemiya 61]

you are putting wording my mouth I never said sionisme existed 3000 years ago but that the current state of Israel exists because of sionisme. Anyway I am at a festival now and don't feel like discussing that it's pointless as everybody has their opinion and and don't want to have a respectful debate just drag people down.  So have a good week you all

Of course Israel was reestablished as a state due to Zionism. It is the belief that we deserve our home land back after being through constant genocide. Do you not believe a group of people deserve their home land back after being kicked out of it so many times? Anyways, have fun at your festival :)

[TiphEret 1,320]

Of course Israel was reestablished as a state due to Zionism. It is the belief that we deserve our home land back after being through constant genocide. Do you not believe a group of people deserve their home land back after being kicked out of it so many times? Anyways, have fun at your festival :)

bro I never said that.  I went to Israel I love it and it anger me that some people are still complaining about it's existence but it doesn't make every decision the Israeli government right. Yes I am excited it just started today and it's gonna be 10 days of intense partying! 

[lego 44,165]

Why are the Jewish or Christians banned from owning property in some Arab countries?

1. Off topic.

2. The source/evidence for the claim?

3. Be specific, which countries? 

4. Each country has different laws, stop trying to make all Arabs as some homogeneous mass.

5. Funny that you mention it, would you mind explaining why non-Jews in Israel cannot own property? 

well, the religion of peace..

Lol and what that makes Judaism then?

You're digging your own hole here.

 

Israel’s late 1947 -1948 “War of Independence” took six months to create a new Jewish state, excluding Arabs to the greatest extent possible. To accomplish it, widespread war crimes and atrocities were committed as about 800,000 people were brutally uprooted, ethnically cleansed, or murdered in cold blood. In addition, 531 villages and 11 urban neighborhoods in Tel-Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem and other cities were destroyed and erased except in the collective memories of their inhabitants and descendants who’ll always consider them their rightful homes.

Shortly after, laws were passed to legitimize the seizure and exclusive Jewish use of Palestinian land. The June 1948 Abandoned Areas Ordinance referred to “any area or place conquered by or surrendered to armed forces or deserted by all or part of its inhabitants.” It gave the Israeli government exclusive jurisdiction rights, including “expropriation and confiscation (authority over) movable and immovable property, within any abandoned area.” It meant displaced Palestinians were prohibited from returning and claiming their property that by law was no longer theirs.

The September 1948 Area of Jurisdiction and Powers Ordinance stated that “Any law applying to the whole of the State of Israel” applies as well “to the whole of the area including….any part of Palestine which the Minister of Defence has defined by proclamation as being held by the Defence Army of Israel.” It meant that Palestinians lost all rights and were subject to whatever laws Israel enacted.

In March 1950, the Absentees’ Property Law (ABL) defined an absentee as:

“a person who, at any time during the period between (November 29, 1947) and (May 19, 1948) has ceased to exist (and no longer) was a legal owner of any property situated in the area of Israel….”

...

Israeli laws and ILA policy prohibit Arabs from buying, leasing or using land exclusively reserved for Jews. 

....

The Jewish National Fund (JNF)

In 1901, the Fifth Zionist Congress established it to “purchase, take on lease or in exchange, or otherwise acquire any lands, forests, rights of possession and other rights….for the purpose of settling Jews on (Palestinian) lands.” About 80% of the land was confiscated, not bought, from its rightful owners – expelled Palestinians in Israel’s “War of Independence.”

JNF calls itself “Caretakers of the land of Israel for over a century (and) a global environmental leader by planting 240 million trees, building over 200 reservoirs and dams, developing over 250,000 acres of land, creating more than 1000 parks, providing infrastructure for over 1000 communities, (and) bringing life to the Negev Desert” exclusively for Jews on stolen Palestinian lands.

JNF develops land. It doesn’t sell it, but it can lease it to Jews or any Jewish-controlled company, organization or entity. It holds these lands on behalf of “the Jewish People in perpetuity.” In addition, its Himnuta subsidiary is charged with “redeeming” West Bank Palestinian land. A 1961 agreement between the State and JNF arranged for the ILA to manage 93% of Israeli land for Jews alone.

In 1973, former Israeli scholar, critic, and lifelong human rights activist, Israel Shahak (1933 – 2001), wrote a paper titled, “What is the Meaning of the Jewish State” in which he said:

“The real situation in Israel is really very simple: Israel is not an ‘Israeli’ state, or a state of its citizens but it is a ‘Jewish state.’ ” With regard to land, “More than 90% of the inhabited areas of the State of Israel are under the rule of the Jewish National Fund regulations, under which non-Jews cannot rent or buy a house or flat, open a business, in short cannot live. This land is called in Hebrew ‘the land’ saved. The land which belongs to non-Jews is called unsaved not national (meaning Jewish) and by buying or confiscating it from a non-Jew by a Jew, the land is supposed to be ‘saved.’ ”

It’s only the beginning. Numerous privileges are afforded Jews alone that include:

– not only the right to the land but to a mortgage or loan to finance it;

– on confiscated West Bank land, “Jewish inhabitants enter into prepared houses, with water and electricity;” unconnected Arab villages are forbidden to use either; and

– “A building project for the newly-married applies only for the Jewish newly-married and so forth; to be a Jew in a Jewish state is to be both a privileged being, and to be able to receive a lot of ‘easy’ money a non-Jew can not ever get.”

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-s-discriminatory-land-policies/14579

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/most-arabs-can-t-buy-most-homes-in-west-jerusalem-1.280392

 

 

[lego 44,165]

 

Israel existed with Zionists 3,000 years ago? You've just beaten the record with the most ignorance in a post.

First, Zionism didn't exist 3,000 years ago, but at least you tried. 1,000 years ago, like you say, were the Medieval Ages, it was 1,000 years after the Israelite Diaspora.  

Judaism is the religion, not "Jews"   And no, it's not a religion of convert. It is a religion that has been passed down by my forefathers for 3,000+ years now. Whatever argument you're trying to create is invalid.

What the **** is "Palestine"? It's a fake country with no history. Never did I say the bible was science. The oldest written work of text by the Israelites in Babylonian captivity wrote the Torah, with stories that were passed down to them. That was thousands of years ago, before the Romans seized Israel and renamed it to Palaestina. 

Luiz, I think you are better with this subject than certain others, don't go to those deep ends to change that view of you. I don't care if we're chosen or not, all I give 1 **** about is that we were here first, and the Torah is just an addition of proof, alongside the archaeological evidence, the primary sources other than Israelites, etc. It's rich with proof that we were here. Do you know what an Arab is? An Arab is a Jew + a Black Egyptian. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Unlike Assyrians and Kurds which share a common ancestor with the Israelites, the Arabs descended from Abraham who was an Israelite. The bible isn't 100% true, but it's neither 100% fake. The creation of the Ishmaelites is accurate and proven by genetics. The Bedouin Arabs are not the same as Qedarites, or Sabaeans. I recommend you and anyone else to read this essay, it's very informative.

This post is perfect example of racist Jewish supremacy and arabophobia.

Zionists didn't "reestablish" Israeli state, when Israel as a state never existed until 67 years ago. There was an Israeli tribe living on that land and it was minority. The Holocaust was not Palestinians' fault, why should they pay the price?

Who cares if you had kings there 3000 years ago? Arabs had Caliphates, does it mean what ISIS is doing now is correct? That is your logic.

You really think that first human on the planet was a Jew and everyone else is some half-breed, that's what I get from this racist post.

Disgusting.

 

[Melech 9,900]

 

From its inception in 2006 until today, the UN Human Rights Council has condemned Israel more times than the rest of the world combined. And the UN accuses Israel of “disproportionality.”

 

 

[Dolev 867]

1. Off topic.

2. The source/evidence for the claim?

3. Be specific, which countries? 

4. Each country has different laws, stop trying to make all Arabs as some homogeneous mass.

5. Funny that you mention it, would you mind explaining why non-Jews in Israel cannot own property? 

Lol and what that makes Judaism then?

You're digging your own hole here.

 

Israel’s late 1947 -1948 “War of Independence” took six months to create a new Jewish state, excluding Arabs to the greatest extent possible. To accomplish it, widespread war crimes and atrocities were committed as about 800,000 people were brutally uprooted, ethnically cleansed, or murdered in cold blood. In addition, 531 villages and 11 urban neighborhoods in Tel-Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem and other cities were destroyed and erased except in the collective memories of their inhabitants and descendants who’ll always consider them their rightful homes.

Shortly after, laws were passed to legitimize the seizure and exclusive Jewish use of Palestinian land. The June 1948 Abandoned Areas Ordinance referred to “any area or place conquered by or surrendered to armed forces or deserted by all or part of its inhabitants.” It gave the Israeli government exclusive jurisdiction rights, including “expropriation and confiscation (authority over) movable and immovable property, within any abandoned area.” It meant displaced Palestinians were prohibited from returning and claiming their property that by law was no longer theirs.

The September 1948 Area of Jurisdiction and Powers Ordinance stated that “Any law applying to the whole of the State of Israel” applies as well “to the whole of the area including….any part of Palestine which the Minister of Defence has defined by proclamation as being held by the Defence Army of Israel.” It meant that Palestinians lost all rights and were subject to whatever laws Israel enacted.

In March 1950, the Absentees’ Property Law (ABL) defined an absentee as:

“a person who, at any time during the period between (November 29, 1947) and (May 19, 1948) has ceased to exist (and no longer) was a legal owner of any property situated in the area of Israel….”

...

Israeli laws and ILA policy prohibit Arabs from buying, leasing or using land exclusively reserved for Jews. 

....

The Jewish National Fund (JNF)

In 1901, the Fifth Zionist Congress established it to “purchase, take on lease or in exchange, or otherwise acquire any lands, forests, rights of possession and other rights….for the purpose of settling Jews on (Palestinian) lands.” About 80% of the land was confiscated, not bought, from its rightful owners – expelled Palestinians in Israel’s “War of Independence.”

JNF calls itself “Caretakers of the land of Israel for over a century (and) a global environmental leader by planting 240 million trees, building over 200 reservoirs and dams, developing over 250,000 acres of land, creating more than 1000 parks, providing infrastructure for over 1000 communities, (and) bringing life to the Negev Desert” exclusively for Jews on stolen Palestinian lands.

JNF develops land. It doesn’t sell it, but it can lease it to Jews or any Jewish-controlled company, organization or entity. It holds these lands on behalf of “the Jewish People in perpetuity.” In addition, its Himnuta subsidiary is charged with “redeeming” West Bank Palestinian land. A 1961 agreement between the State and JNF arranged for the ILA to manage 93% of Israeli land for Jews alone.

In 1973, former Israeli scholar, critic, and lifelong human rights activist, Israel Shahak (1933 – 2001), wrote a paper titled, “What is the Meaning of the Jewish State” in which he said:

“The real situation in Israel is really very simple: Israel is not an ‘Israeli’ state, or a state of its citizens but it is a ‘Jewish state.’ ” With regard to land, “More than 90% of the inhabited areas of the State of Israel are under the rule of the Jewish National Fund regulations, under which non-Jews cannot rent or buy a house or flat, open a business, in short cannot live. This land is called in Hebrew ‘the land’ saved. The land which belongs to non-Jews is called unsaved not national (meaning Jewish) and by buying or confiscating it from a non-Jew by a Jew, the land is supposed to be ‘saved.’ ”

It’s only the beginning. Numerous privileges are afforded Jews alone that include:

– not only the right to the land but to a mortgage or loan to finance it;

– on confiscated West Bank land, “Jewish inhabitants enter into prepared houses, with water and electricity;” unconnected Arab villages are forbidden to use either; and

– “A building project for the newly-married applies only for the Jewish newly-married and so forth; to be a Jew in a Jewish state is to be both a privileged being, and to be able to receive a lot of ‘easy’ money a non-Jew can not ever get.”

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-s-discriminatory-land-policies/14579

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/most-arabs-can-t-buy-most-homes-in-west-jerusalem-1.280392

 

 

And NONE of this would have happened only if the Arabs had accepted the UN Partition plan and didn't attack the Jews. :)

[lego 44,165]

Reminder of why the Gaza was actually attacked last year.

 

IDF's Gaza assault is to control Palestinian gas, avert Israeli energy crisis

Israel's defence minister has confirmed that military plans to 'uproot Hamas' are about dominating Gaza's gas reserves

Yesterday, Israeli defence minister and former Israeli Defence Force (IDF) chief of staff Moshe Ya'alon announced that Operation Protective Edge marks the beginning of a protracted assault on Hamas. The operation "won't end in just a few days," he said, adding that "we are preparing to expand the operation by all means standing at our disposal so as to continue striking Hamas."

 

This morning, he said:

 

"We continue with strikes that draw a very heavy price from Hamas. We are destroying weapons, terror infrastructures, command and control systems, Hamas institutions, regime buildings, the houses of terrorists, and killing terrorists of various ranks of command… The campaign against Hamas will expand in the coming days, and the price the organization will pay will be very heavy."

 

But in 2007, a year before Operation Cast Lead, Ya'alon's concerns focused on the 1.4 trillion cubic feet of natural gas discovered in 2000 off the Gaza coast, valued at $4 billion. Ya'alon dismissed the notion that "Gaza gas can be a key driver of an economically more viable Palestinian state" as "misguided." The problem, he said, is that:

 

"Proceeds of a Palestinian gas sale to Israel would likely not trickle down to help an impoverished Palestinian public. Rather, based on Israel's past experience, the proceeds will likely serve to fund further terror attacks against Israel…

 

A gas transaction with the Palestinian Authority [PA] will, by definition, involve Hamas. Hamas will either benefit from the royalties or it will sabotage the project and launch attacks against Fatah, the gas installations, Israel – or all three… It is clear that without an overall military operation to uproot Hamas control of Gaza, no drilling work can take place without the consent of the radical Islamic movement."

 

Operation Cast Lead did not succeed in uprooting Hamas, but the conflict did take the lives of 1,387 Palestinians (773 of whom were civilians) and 9 Israelis (3 of whom were civilians).

 

Since the discovery of oil and gas in the Occupied Territories, resource competition has increasingly been at the heart of the conflict, motivated largely by Israel's increasing domestic energy woes.

 

Mark Turner, founder of the Research Journalism Initiative, reported that the siege of Gaza and ensuing military pressure was designed to "eliminate" Hamas as "a viable political entity in Gaza" to generate a "political climate" conducive to a gas deal. This involved rehabilitating the defeated Fatah as the dominant political player in the West Bank, and "leveraging political tensions between the two parties, arming forces loyal to Abbas and the selective resumption of financial aid."

 

Ya'alon's comments in 2007 illustrate that the Israeli cabinet is not just concerned about Hamas – but concerned that if Palestinians develop their own gas resources, the resulting economic transformation could in turn fundamentally increase Palestinian clout.

 

 

Meanwhile, Israel has made successive major discoveries in recent years - such as the Leviathan field estimated to hold 18 trillion cubic feet of natural gas – which could transform the country from energy importer into aspiring energy exporter with ambitions to supply Europe, Jordan and Egypt. A potential obstacle is that much of the 122 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.6 billion barrels of oil in the Levant Basin Province lies in territorial waters where borders are hotly disputed between Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza and Cyprus.

 

Amidst this regional jockeying for gas, though, Israel faces its own little-understood energy challenges. It could, for instance, take until 2020 for much of these domestic resources to be properly mobilised.

 

But this is the tip of the iceberg. A 2012 letter by two Israeli government chief scientists – which the Israeli government chose not to disclose – warned the government that Israel still had insufficient gas resources to sustain exports despite all the stupendous discoveries. The letter, according to Ha'aretz

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jul/09/israel-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis

[lego 44,165]

And NONE of this would have happened only if the Arabs had accepted the UN Partition plan and didn't attack the Jews. :)

Trying to justify unjustifiable.

It is perfectly normal to see white Russian Jews swarming the ME as a threat, where the **** did they come from? Why should an Arab just give you half of his house where he lived for the past 1400 years?

No any nation would just give you half of the land so they can become refugees.

[Melech 9,900]

Trying to justify unjustifiable.

It is perfectly normal to see white Russian Jews swarming the ME as a threat, where the **** did they come from? Why should an Arab just give you half of his house where he lived for the past 1400 years?

No any nation would just give you half of the land so they can become refugees.

And what gives the right to the Arab countries to persecute their Jewish population? 

 

[lego 44,165]

And what gives the right to the Arab countries to persecute their Jewish population? 

 

They didn't, until Israel was created. Check the state and privileges of Jews in Ottoman empire in the Balkans. 

[Melech 9,900]

They didn't, until Israel was created. Check the state and privileges of Jews in Ottoman empire in the Balkans. 

Yeah Farhud was amazing for example.

 

Oh and don't let me started on the Balkan.