Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The individuals who lost their homes when Israel was first established have a legitimate complaint.Those who lost their property during 'war' are unfortunately victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.The reason for the conflict and all the suffering is 'Religious zealotry" ...Whether anyone agrees or not its obvious that the anti-Israeli sentiment and posts are fueled by this. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The individuals who lost their homes when Israel was first established have a legitimate complaint.Those who lost their property during 'war' are unfortunately victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.The reason for the conflict and all the suffering is 'Religious zealotry" ...Whether anyone agrees or not its obvious that the anti-Israeli sentiment and posts are fueled by this.I am not saying you are wrong but what actual facts do you have to back it up? I think the presence of the military all around the west bank isn't helping at all. If you are born in an occupied territory for sure you will develop hatred toward the state having control over it. Not to mention that most palestinian are second class citizen in regards of the law. Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I am not saying you are wrong but what actual facts do you have to back it up? I think the presence of the military all around the west bank isn't helping at all. If you are born in an occupied territory for sure you will develop hatred toward the state having control over it. Not to mention that most palestinian are second class citizen in regards of the law.When Israel withdrew their military , suicide bombers, mortar positions, rockets attacked the general population in Tel Aviv. So, Israel is faced with the choice of deploying military control over a civilian region and hurting innocent people, or allowing terrorist attacks on their own people....Its not an easy situation, it seems to me that they would rather be at peace, just like the Palestinians who live there. Many do not have a problem with the Israeli government and just want to go to work, get paid, take care of their kids ect.Hamas, and other radical groups infiltrate the area and conduct terrorist attacks against the wishes of the people who live there as well. ADD: I am not gonna post as if it were a court proceeding. You can look up any information you like. I get 99 percent of my information thru credible media reports. A little from people I know personally who have visited the region and sometimes random ex military people who I work with. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 When Israel withdrew their military , suicide bombers, mortar positions, rockets attacked the general population in Tel Aviv. So, Israel is faced with the choice of deploying military control over a civilian region and hurting innocent people, or allowing terrorist attacks on their own people....Its not an easy situation, it seems to me that they would rather be at peace, just like the Palestinians who live there. Many do not have a problem with the Israeli government and just want to go to work, get paid, take care of their kids ect.Hamas, and other radical groups infiltrate the area and conduct terrorist attacks against the wishes of the people who live there as well. ADD: I am not gonna post as if it were a court proceeding. You can look up any information you like. I get 99 percent of my information thru credible media reports. A little from people I know personally who have visited the region and sometimes random ex military people who I work with.Ok but then you are specifically speaking of terrorist attacks and the gaza stripe which is a very different situation than the west bank, I talked about the conflicts as a whole. Anyway I don't think there is any need to add further comment because we don't seem to talk about the same thing. I don't disagree I just see another perspective. But yes it's not easy also because Palestine isn't the only issue for Israeli, all surrounding countries are a threat and it seemed to me to some extent Palestine isn't the major problem for them. Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Ok but then you are specifically speaking of terrorist attacks and the gaza stripe which is a very different situation than the west bank, I talked about the conflicts as a whole. Anyway I don't think there is any need to add further comment because we don't seem to talk about the same thing. I don't disagree I just see another perspective. But yes it's not easy also because Palestine isn't the only issue for Israeli, all surrounding countries are a threat and it seemed to me to some extent Palestine isn't the major problem for them.I agree, its the influx from radical Islamic groups who intend to kill any Jewish person they find in the region. This goes back to my assertion that the problem is primarily Religious Zealots in the surround region and not necessarily a land dispute. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The concept of supremacy of religion also peferclty is seen in Palestine territories. Look at the drastic shrinking numbers of Non-Muslims there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Rose 1,475 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The individuals who lost their homes when Israel was first established have a legitimate complaint.Those who lost their property during 'war' are unfortunately victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.It's been less than 100 years, it's not like all those people just vanished off the face of the Earth..It's unfair, the way people want to just sweep it under the rug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Rose 1,475 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 the problem has everything to do with religious supremacy and not land. That would be the whole Earth at this point. ~ Sorry for the double post! This new posting system won't let you copy and paste a quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 It's been less than 100 years, it's not like all those people just vanished off the face of the Earth..It's unfair, the way people want to just sweep it under the rugWhat about the Jews from the Middle East? What about those who lost their homes in Libya, Yemen or Iraq ? Are those not important? Or do you just don't care what happens to them since they are Jewish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Rose 1,475 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 What about the Jews from the Middle East? What about those who lost their homes in Libya, Yemen or Iraq ? Are those not important? Or do you just don't care what happens to them since they are Jewish?Why are you quoting me and then posting something completely unrelated to the post you quoted?You obviously just want to argue with me and then put me down when I try to explain my perspective to you.If you want to have a fair discussion I'm open to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Why are you quoting me and then posting something completely unrelated to the post you quoted?You obviously just want to argue with me and then put me down when I try to explain my perspective to you.If you want to have a fair discussion I'm open to it You are talking about sweeping things under the rug when you don't even care about Jewish people.At least Jewish people can show solidarity and take Jews into Israel. (No matter from where) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 "The man behind the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement against Israel, Omar Barghouti, is a PhD student at Tel Aviv University. Yes, you read that right -- Tel Aviv, Israel, home of "apartheid" and the worst of alleged human rights abuses.In an interview explaining the aims of the BDS movement, Qatar-born Barghouti states: "Israel's deepest injustice is the denial of the right of return to Palestinian refugees." The BDS campaign, initiated in 2005 by Palestinian "civil society" to force Israel to comply with "international law", seems to have gathered steam in recent times.Using the language of human rights, Barghouti goes beyond urging Israel to end its occupation of the Palestinian West Bank. He is advocating, in no uncertain terms, the destruction of Israel, by overwhelming it demographically with millions of returning Palestinian Arab refugees.BDS is old wine in new bottles: Arabs joined Nazis in boycotting Jewish businesses in the 1930s; the Arab League declared a trade boycott of Israel. The reason why BDS has appeared to gain traction is the support of "human-rights" NGOs, churches and university groups.The fundamental injustice of the BDS position becomes crystal clear if you consider that 51 percent of Israeli Jews are in Israel because the Jewish state gave them refuge from Arab and Muslim antisemitism -- persecution and pogroms such as the 1941 Farhud in Iraq. This Arab-Muslim antisemitism was not only a consequence of the establishment of the state of Israel, it predated it; and it created the need for a country where Jews, a vulnerable but indigenous minority, could exercise a right of self-defense. Together with native Christian communities such as Copts and Assyrians, Jews in the Arab and Muslim world had to submit, as "dhimmis" , to humiliations and exactions. Although the "dhimmi" status was not always rigorously applied, Jews were at the mercy of their Muslim rulers for 14 centuries. Moreover, in the 20th century, the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was complicit with the Nazis in a genocidal project that would have destroyed not only the Jews of Palestine, but Jews of the Arab world -- before Israel's creation. Still today these racist aims are enshrined in the Hamas Charter. Hamas was until recently in a unity government with the Palestinian Authority. After failing to annihilate the young state of Israel, Arab Muslim antisemitism created 870,000 Jewish refugees, driven from their homes in Arab states and dispossessed of their property. There were more Jewish refugees than Palestinian.But these Jewish refugees are invisible, as far as the BDS movement is concerned. Indeed, the Arab world has never been called to account for its violations of Jewish rights. Israel represents the liberation of colonized Jews from the yoke of Arab and Muslim rule. It is the expression of the right to self-determination of the Jewish people, a right enshrined under Article 80 of the UN Charter.The Jewish people are an authentic Middle Eastern people in continuous residence in the region -- 1, 000 years before Arab-Muslim imperialism and colonization.A "right of return" for Palestinian refugees cannot be contemplated without also considering the same right for the 870,000 Jewish refugees. But returning to hostile states, where antisemitism is endemic, is hardly a solution for Jews. Peace should instead be founded on the concept of an irrevocable exchange of refugee populations.For a genuine peace based on truth and justice, the Palestinians, and Arab states generally, need to acknowledge the fundamental injustice done to Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Jewish refugees do not want a right of return to Arab states, but an apology for their suffering and compensation for their losses.The rest of the world needs to call to account the Arab and Muslim world for the injustices perpetrated against their Jewish and non-Muslim minorities, and both need to recognize the rights of non-Arab peoples in the Middle East and North Africa to self-determination."http://www.jpost.com/landedpages/printarticle.aspx?id=406567 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Rose 1,475 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 You are talking about sweeping things under the rug when you don't even care about Jewish people.At least Jewish people can show solidarity and take Jews into Israel. (No matter from where) I do care about Jewish people, I don't think they're evil.You're putting words in my mouth, this is bullying.I'm done with this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I do care about Jewish people, I don't think they're evil. You're putting words in my mouth, this is bullying. I'm done with this thread That always comes when people don't have arguments anymore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 What about the Jews from the Middle East? What about those who lost their homes in Libya, Yemen or Iraq ? Are those not important? Or do you just don't care what happens to them since they are Jewish?Exactly. All of my grandparents (and they're families) had to flee and leave all their property in both Iraq & Morocco because Muslim world became dangerous for Jews when Israel was established. That's just as bad as what happened with Palestinians during '47-'48 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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