Turkey: Accepting Armenian genocide is racist from Europe

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

Now I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Armenian genocide is the cause for all other genocides afterwards. But it's delusional to call it 'self-defense'. And by the way, Turkey doesn't open many of its archives either.

The real problem here is that Turkish people are too nationalist to admit a thing like that  If its all about money, why would most Turks not accept it, even if it's not with money or strategy involved?

​- Turkey opened its archives relevant to Genocide. It is publicly announced countless times. 

- For your delusional claim: It is proven that Armenians also sabotaged Ottoman Army from inside during WW1, and attacked mostly turkish populated villages. https://www.facebook.com/factcheckarmenia/videos/780885798627271/ this video talks about these historical facts.

- There are 2 sides to a story. Most Armenians believes that Ottoman ordered them to go on death marches for no reason, which does not make any sense, because Ottoman was not even nationalist. It was like USA, there were so many people from so many races, even orthodox patriarch(Pope equivalent for Orthodox) lived ,and still lives in Istanbul. Most Armenians is ignorant or refuses to see what Armenians did during WW1 because Armenia propagated this idea for years. In the same vein, Most turks believed that Massacre did not happen, Ottoman sent them to Syria from Anatolia. Government would reject genocide claims even if it is true, since country would have to pay reparations in such case, so Turkish Government propagated the idea that intention was not killing, and most turks believe in it, just like armenians. It is also proved that Ottoman sent them on death marches since they gave them no food, no water. To sum up, the reason why most of the both countries' citizens look at the issue very biased because it is what they see everywhere.

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

Anyone that denies the Armenian genocide is a monster. I watched a documentary on it and I cried. A 102 year-old woman was speaking and she was crying and it just killed me to watch that. She said she remembered how the Turks raped her friends, killed her parents for their money, and so much more. :( 

​-Just like the ancient civilization discussion we had, you look at the issue very biased. Just like how I said that beginning of the civilization is an ambiguous term, and standards about it might vary according to the perspective of person who looks at it. 

-There are also turkish historical movies that tell stories from WW1, shows how armenians attacked turkish villages, killed children, and women. There are historical proofs to those too. https://www.facebook.com/factcheckarmenia/videos/780885798627271/ this video approaches to issue from Turkish perspective, it might provide a different view on the issue. I do not say you should accept all of this as true. What I am saying is that one should not approach biased. And in case of self-defense, it would not be accepted as genocide, but massacre. I do not think like that because I am turkish. Turkish propaganda tells that Ottoman sent armenians to syria, not to death marches which is also not true, because it is proved that they sent them to desserts with no food, and no water. And on the other hand, Armenian propaganda tells that Ottoman sent them to death marches because they were armenians which is also not true, it is proved that Armenians sabotaged Ottoman Armies, and attacked turkish villages. Logically it is also obvious that the both sides' propaganda is not true. For Armenian Propaganda, there are proofs of Hunchakians' actions, and also Ottoman Empire was a multi-national country, such country could not live 600 years on based on chauvinism, and racism. For Turkish Propaganda, there are skulls at a number that they did not die on the road, but sent there to die.

- Turkey proposed Armenia to let a chosen group of Turkish, Armenian and Foreign Historians to do research in both countries' historical archives, Armenia refused. Turkey also opened up all of his historical archives about genocide claims; but Armenia still refuses to open its historical archives which implies that they are hiding something.

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

​No body is giving Turks today any fault to that genocide. The only thing that they need to accept that the Ottoman empire did an genocide. Its not that difficult. 

I personally don't know if Turkey should pay etc. but I want that Turkey finally accept that there was a genocide. 

Also Hitler was elected but later made a illegally a dictatorship

​- As I said, Armenia did not provide enough proofs, and did not open its historical archives about "genocide". In case of self-defense, it would be called massacre, not a genocide. Genocide has a political meaning. If a country takes responsibility for genocide, they would have to pay reparations. It is a political game; to avoid paying reparation for years, Turkey rejected any genocide claims, so it is hard to change path of these type of huge political steps... But again, I do neither believe in Turkish propaganda, nor in Armenian propaganda, I would want historians to take over the subject but Armenia refuses to open its historical archives. I personally accept that Ottoman Empire massacred so many armenians, but for it to be called genocide, Armenia has to prove that armenians did not do anything that would cause Ottoman Empire to give such reaction.

- I know that Hitler became a dictator but no matter what he was chosen initially. He took the power with "la volonté générale" of Germans which justifies why Germany paid reparations. 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

Turkey... y u make it so hard for yourself... its not like the current Turkey did it... Just like the current Germany didnt kill all those jews back in WW2

​Answer is short and simple both for Armenia's claiming that armenians were totally innocent, did not sabotage Ottoman Armies, did not attack turkish villages; and for Turkey's claiming that Ottoman Empire sent them to away from Anatolia ,not to death marches. 

Answer is money, aka reparation. 

[YCHofficial 5,293]

​Answer is short and simple both for Armenia's claiming that armenians were totally innocent, did not sabotage Ottoman Armies, did not attack turkish villages; and for Turkey's claiming that Ottoman Empire sent them to away from Anatolia not to death marches. 

Answer is money, aka reparation. 

​Actually I dont know whats going on or what happened.. im just trying to be relevant 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

​Actually I dont whats going on or what happened.. im just trying to be relevant 

​I study for my Advanced Calculus final, when you try to study, everything is better 

Discussing here is the second thing I do tonight after cleaning my room to a point that it is shining right now.

[YCHofficial 5,293]

​I study for my Advanced Calculus final, when you try to study, everything is better 

Discussing here is the second thing I do tonight after cleaning my room to a point that it is shining right now.

​pics or it didnt happen

[Melech 9,900]

​- As I said, Armenia did not provide enough proofs, and did not open its historical archives about "genocide". In case of self-defense, it would be called massacre, not a genocide. Genocide has a political meaning. If a country takes responsibility for genocide, they would have to pay reparations. It is a political game; to avoid paying reparation for years, Turkey rejected any genocide claims, so it is hard to change path of these type of huge political steps... But again, I do neither believe in Turkish propaganda, nor in Armenian propaganda, I would want historians to take over the subject but Armenia refuses to open its historical archives. I personally accept that Ottoman Empire massacred so many armenians, but for it to be called genocide, Armenia has to prove that armenians did not do anything that would cause Ottoman Empire to give such reaction.

- I know that Hitler became a dictator but no matter what he was chosen initially. He took the power with "la volonté générale" of Germans which justifies why Germany paid reparations. 

​

In the end people died in millions there and that is already sad enough. Its embarrassing how we discuss if it is was a genocide or not. It was a genocide. It was against one specific ethnic group. Nobody is saying as I said again that today Turkey or Turkish people are fault of it, but Turkey needs to accept that it was a genocide for the sake of its victims. There were children, woman, old men in there which were innocent. 

And to be clear I want that Germany pays reparations, if not my grandparents would be homeless  

[GHGUY 230]

​Answer is short and simple both for Armenia's claiming that armenians were totally innocent, did not sabotage Ottoman Armies, did not attack turkish villages; and for Turkey's claiming that Ottoman Empire sent them to away from Anatolia ,not to death marches. 

Answer is money, aka reparation. 

You need to stop with this whole historical archive argument. There are plenty of photographs of Armenian heads severed and Armenian bodies found along the paths where they were marched out of exile. There are also plenty of records from observing people of other nations documenting the exhile of the Armenian people and the systematic killing of their people by the Ottoman Turks. Furthermore what can Turkey's historical archives possibly provide when their entire history books have been rewritten and any evidence of the genocide been destroyed?

 

furthermore The Ottoman Empire blamed Armenian for losing the war to Russia around the early 1900's and used the Armenians as scapegoats for the loss of the war and used that as justification for killing the Armenian people. And like you said the Ottoman Empire is no longer in existence... So why do the Turks still not admit to something that happened by another empire 100 years ago?

 

Also the Ottoman Empire killed the Armenian politicians and educated men first in order to make the people more defenseless against their exhile of their homeland and extermination of their race that much more easy and successful. This is a systematic killing of a people and thus a genocide. 

 

Also how do you explain how Mount Ararat, a mountain of an Armenian name, is now in current day Turkey. It seems likely that Turkey took over Armenian land and claimed it as its own. Such an achievement most likely occurred through a genocide as there was no war between Armenia and the Ottoman Empire.

 

also go ask many Armenians whose diaspora does not originate from Iran or Lebanon to trace back their family tree beyond 4 generations.... Many of them cannot because those ancestors were killed and did not communicate their family tree/ancestry to their surviving children. 

[GHGUY 230]

​Answer is short and simple both for Armenia's claiming that armenians were totally innocent, did not sabotage Ottoman Armies, did not attack turkish villages; and for Turkey's claiming that Ottoman Empire sent them to away from Anatolia ,not to death marches. 

Answer is money, aka reparation. 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/now-armenian-genocide-204418779.html

 

here is some historical archives for you.... And the fact that you think Armenia only wants recognition for money and reparations is disgusting.

[RainingOnMe 7,280]

​-Just like the ancient civilization discussion we had, you look at the issue very biased. Just like how I said that beginning of the civilization is an ambiguous term, and standards about it might vary according to the perspective of person who looks at it. 

-There are also turkish historical movies that tell stories from WW1, shows how armenians attacked turkish villages, killed children, and women. There are historical proofs to those too. https://www.facebook.com/factcheckarmenia/videos/780885798627271/ this video approaches to issue from Turkish perspective, it might provide a different view on the issue. I do not say you should accept all of this as true. What I am saying is that one should not approach biased. And in case of self-defense, it would not be accepted as genocide, but massacre. I do not think like that because I am turkish. Turkish propaganda tells that Ottoman sent armenians to syria, not to death marches which is also not true, because it is proved that they sent them to desserts with no food, and no water. And on the other hand, Armenian propaganda tells that Ottoman sent them to death marches because they were armenians which is also not true, it is proved that Armenians sabotaged Ottoman Armies, and attacked turkish villages. Logically it is also obvious that the both sides' propaganda is not true. For Armenian Propaganda, there are proofs of Hunchakians' actions, and also Ottoman Empire was a multi-national country, such country could not live 600 years on based on chauvinism, and racism. For Turkish Propaganda, there are skulls at a number that they did not die on the road, but sent there to die.

- Turkey proposed Armenia to let a chosen group of Turkish, Armenian and Foreign Historians to do research in both countries' historical archives, Armenia refused. Turkey also opened up all of his historical archives about genocide claims; but Armenia still refuses to open its historical archives which implies that they are hiding something.

LOL, you really will do anything to hide what your country did. Sadly you wouldn't stop quoting me after I kindly said the first civilization (proven) was in Mesopotamia. You can't be biased about a fact. Then you wouldn't stop quoting me back and forth, writing essays, whatever. You're a generic turk in fact and you don't want to admit what your country did. I really don't feel like you quoting me again but your ignorance bothers me a lot. Please just stop and admit what your country did, otherwise I'm here and I don't want you to ever speak to me again.

[BULATIO 1,635]

MESS 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

​It's not "self-defence" to kill 1.5 million men, woman and children, it's the definition of genocide. You are really trying it. In fact in many countries denying the Armenian genocide is a crime :nails: as for "not opening historical archives", neither is Turkey, they deny scholars access to the full Ottoman archives. Hmmm, I wonder why. Maybe for the same reason the Turks have jailed academics who talk about it... 

​This is a very weak proof. It is only a letter that states personal opinion. 

http://en.devletarsivleri.gov.tr/assets/content/MicroSiteler/Ermeni_Kitaplar/ermenisoykirim_1.pdf

This is collection of proofs about Armenians' attacks to Turks, mostly jewish and muslim Turks. And again, Turkey opened its historical archives... I am not going to discuss this again. Turkey was the country who proposed Armenia to make respected scholars research in historical archives of both countries in the first place.

You just approach so biased, it is unbelievable. You are racist, I do not like to use it unsubstantiated but your perspective is targeted at attack turks, not discuss anything... 

Turks did not jail academics, Government might have done... God you're so stupid. It is all politics honey. All politics ! Also in Greece, denying armenian genocide can be punished up to €30,000 and 3 years in prison. Why ? Do you think that it is because Greece cares ? No, it is because of greco-turk relations. Personally, I disagree with the both. Jailing someone because they express their opinion is wrong in so many ways, no matter Turkish Government, or any other Government do it.

You think so simple, from one narrow perspective. There are many different components that you miss. Ottoman Empire's first priority was the unity of state during WW1. Hunchakian and many other armenian organizations started to revolt before massacres. They were not that strong organizations like a state, obviously they did not kill as many turks as ottoman killed armenians. But again, Ottoman was already in fight with nearly all powerful countries of the world, and they massacred them. Why do you think that Ottomans killed armenians, why not kurds, not jewish people ? Because they simply disliked armenians suddenly while armenians lived in Ottoman Empire for centuries in harmony ? Massacre and genocide are not the same term. Ottoman massacred Armenians, but to call it genocide, one has to prove that armenian organizations did not try to sabotage Ottoman armies, attacked to villagers etc. Genocide express systematic killings of people from the same race on the basis of their being from the that race. For example, if you hit a gay person because he is gay, you are a homophobic. This is genocide. If you hit a gay person not because he is gay, but because he did something that annoyed you etc, then you simply hit him. It is wrong, but it does not make you a homophobe. 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

LOL, you really will do anything to hide what your country did. Sadly you wouldn't stop quoting me after I kindly said the first civilization (proven) was in Mesopotamia. You can't be biased about a fact. Then you wouldn't stop quoting me back and forth, writing essays, whatever. You're a generic turk in fact and you don't want to admit what your country did. I really don't feel like you quoting me again but your ignorance bothers me a lot. Please just stop and admit what your country did, otherwise I'm here and I don't want you to ever speak to me again.

Do you know anything about history ? 

- I will cure your ignorance now. Republic of Turkey, a.k.a. my country was found in 1923. And Turkey is only cultural successor of Ottoman Empire, other than that, Turkey was the country who totally destroyed Ottoman Empire from inside. Republic deported Ottoman dynasty, banished them from coming back to Turkey, abolished the title Caliph(islamic equivalent of Pope), adopted latin alphabets, granted women's suffrage, implemented co-ed education, declared state as laic. I am sure that a country which did not exist cannot do a genocide. I am not an Ottoman citizen, I am a citizen of Republic of Turkey.

- You are saying that I am a generic turk shows how biased, and racist you are. First time in my life, someone said something racist to me, lol. 

- Beginning of civilization is not proved in any way. It is a relative term. I will explain it slowly so you would understand it. Definition1 : "the condition that exists when people have developed effective ways of organizing a society and care about art, science, etc."  Definition2:" an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture,science, industry, and government has been reached."  You see even definitions may vary ! Learn the difference between proven fact and consensus, you ignorant cutie pie. Being a consensus does not make something proven, and when a relative term is coined, meaning becomes subjective. Just like every word you say, very subjective. If you were me, now you would start calling yourself an armenian in a way that it would sound like insult just like you did with being a generic turk. Funny, you do not seem to have more intelligence than a 8 years old. 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/now-armenian-genocide-204418779.html

 

here is some historical archives for you.... And the fact that you think Armenia only wants recognition for money and reparations is disgusting.

​It is a realistic perspective. I am putting myself in their shoes, and observe political reactions. Armenian Government wants the money, it is for sure. For other parts, people are just government's puppets. I am saying this for both majority of turks, and armenians. It is easy to engineer a society when tried in a consistent way because people do not research. Nothing is black or white. 

Majority of Turks thinks that Ottoman deported Armenians, only killed terrorist ones because they were killing turks, and sabotaging Ottoman Armies. And Majority of Armenians thinks that Ottoman massacred Armenians because they were not a minority. But both sides are very biased. Ottoman Empire massacred Armenians for sure, but also Armenian organizations, groups revolted countless times in 19th century, sabotaged Ottoman Armies, helped Russian Empire against Ottoman Empire. Argument is that Ottomans massacred Armenians for ethnic cleansing does not make sense because Ottoman was always a multi-cultural country for centuries. There were other even more populous minorities in Anatolia such as Kurds, thinking that Ottoman specifically chose Armenians for no reason is wrong. The fact that they were second-class citizen is dramatized; Ottoman even gave special rights under the name of capitulations to minorities, look it up. And there is also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Gülhane 

Don't get me wrong, I do not say nothing happened. Ottoman massacred armenians, it a horrible decision. What I am saying is emphasizing on the overlooked parts of discussion. 

PS: This video is something commercial, neither official nor academic. And I did not like it, it says things, but also misses many things which bothers me the most about this issue. People are super-biased about taboo issues. It is similar to video I shared tho, one video I shared was telling the cult Turkish arguments, but the reason why I shared it was providing a different perspective , not because I agree with everything it says.