Iran militia chief: Erase Israel off the map

[Dolev 867]

How is this conflict about Islam though?

Anyway, your historical data is way off (especially your COMPLETELY unhistorical account of Islamic expansion that, scholars know, wasn't violent of tone, with respect to Christians and Jews and usually even without any protest from the common people, who were used to changing political powers for hundreds of years which didn't even influence them that much) and your anti-Islam arguments that are correct count for every major religion that had a political agenda. Your attempts to place yourself in Muhammad's head is a joke. It's a fact that Allah was one of many gods worshipped in the geographical area where Islam was created, but the same counts for Yahweh, so how does that fairytale-logic only make Islam illegitimate?

I don't understand your obsession with presenting Palestine as a historical illusion. Even if your line of argument was true, which it isn't, I fail to see the relevance of it, since Muslims support their claim with actual historical facts that have nothing to do with region borders. The term, pointing to the area, was used in Ancient Greece at least indeed, but not in the story that you're presenting. In fact, the term was already used in the fifth century BC so bye at that whole argument, maybe CHECK your Jewish source before copying it. And how about mentioning all the different non-Islamic cultures that have dominated the area throughout history?

So, basically, an incomplete, useless mess of a post.

​and Jews don't?

[Didymus 34,380]

​and Jews don't?

You really made an effort to read that into my post I didn't even insinuate a thing like that.

[Dolev 867]

You really made an effort to read that into my post I didn't even insinuate a thing like that.

​Kudos for you for being so cool and cynical

now if you don't mind please stay on point and leave me out of your discussions with this guy, I never said I agree with him, I only asked you a question regarding what you wrote.

[Didymus 34,380]

​Kudos for you for being so cool and cynical

​Coming from a person who reads anti-Jewish sentiments in my writings

Anyway, I didn't mean for it to be insulting, it's just frustrating that it's almost impossible to write something here without everyone assuming you're choosing a camp. Well, I guess I'm one of the only people who doesn't write like that here, so it's understandable at least.

So just letting everyone know, I think both claims are equally absurd.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

 

 

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

 I think both claims are equally absurd.

​I think that native Palestinian's have legitimate claims to annexed land.  But, historical, biblical, religious claims only fuel further conflict because neither side listens to the other. 

Palestinian claims of victimization are only because they are loosing the military conflict. When ever Hamas wins, they suddenly act as though they are heroes.

[Pandemiya 61]

Yes, just avoid every fact I sourced by calling me racist.  Muslims aren't a race, so your posts are ignorant.

I never once said that the people there were illegitimate, I said that the name they call themselves and the territory is illegitimate, which they are, whether you like it or not. They adopted the name to make it seem like Jews "threw them out of their native land that they've been living on for thousands of years" like Yasser Arafat said.

I agree with Dolev, they most certainly aren't ready to govern themselves. Just look at hamas. Sadly that's what happens when you elect a terrorist group as your government. Hopefully the Fatah will eradicate hamas.

Of course you two antisemites come for me and the facts I posted and cited. Sorry, but Israel isn't going anywhere else whether you like it or not. Inb4 you say "you are sick for implying they deserve to die!!11" like you do all the time when I never say or imply that. And LMAO at you saying muslims support the area with historical facts. As if Jews do, who lived there since before muslims existed.   Can you read though? I said it was used by EVERYONE to term the area due to King Hadrian renaming it. Read before you post, please.  

[Luc 4,776]

Yes, just avoid every fact I sourced by calling me racist...?  Muslims aren't a race, so your posts are ignorant. Obviously I have an issue with islam. I said oppress the religion, not the people. All it has done is have millions of people murdered. Newest religion = the deadliest. All you people that are welcoming to it will regret it. Islam will tear apart Europe in a few decades, just look a France. The French people are scared for their lives. Mock my words, when it happens you'll know what I meant.  

I never once said that the people there were illegitimate or wastes of space, I just stated that the territory should not be named palestine when and if it becomes a country. And I agree with @Dolev, they most certainly aren't ready to govern themselves. Just look at hamas. Sadly that's what happens when you elect a terrorist group as your government. Hopefully the Fatah will eradicate hamas.

And LMAO at you saying muslims support the area with historical facts. As if Jews do, who lived there since before muslims existed. http://gagadaily.com/uploads/monthly_2015_03/lmao.gif.cceae976b88e2f28f377044f54757226.gif  Can you read though? I said it was used by EVERYONE to term the area due to King Hadrian renaming it. Read before you post, please.   

​Radicalism isn't good from any side. Right wing extremism is the biggest danger in Europe, though. It's killed more people and done more damage to Europe than radical Islamism has. Look what Breivik did. All because they're against a certain race or people. You're also doing that.

And I wouldn't say that 'The French people are scared for their lives'. They're not. About 10 people got killed. 9 people die in a car accident in French a day, and about 0,1 dies from radical islamism a day. There's no reason to not be scared for your life whenever you're travelling, if you're already scared to be killed by radical muslims in France.

Hamas was elected because of Israel. If it weren't for Israel, its' people would choose for a government based on social-economic ideas, rather than defense and who can shout 'WE'LL KILL OUR ENEMY!' the loudest. Same is happening in Israel. Difference is, Hamas doesn't actually manage to kill their enemy, eventhough they say they want to. Israel's government doesn't say they want to kill as many Palestinians as possible, but their actions show that that's what they actually do.

The sanctions on Iran being lifted is great - it means that the western governments don't have any trust in Netanyahu or other far right-wing politicians anymore. Now sanction Israel, for their war crimes and thousands of unjustified murders.

[Pandemiya 61]

​Radicalism isn't good from any side. Right wing extremism is the biggest danger in Europe, though. It's killed more people and done more damage to Europe than radical Islamism has. Look what Breivik did. All because they're against a certain race or people. You're also doing that.

And I wouldn't say that 'The French people are scared for their lives'. They're not. About 10 people got killed. 9 people die in a car accident in French a day, and about 0,1 dies from radical islamism a day. There's no reason to not be scared for your life whenever you're travelling, if you're already scared to be killed by radical muslims in France.

Hamas was elected because of Israel. If it weren't for Israel, its' people would choose for a government based on social-economic ideas, rather than defense and who can shout 'WE'LL KILL OUR ENEMY!' the loudest. Same is happening in Israel. Difference is, Hamas doesn't actually manage to kill their enemy, eventhough they say they want to. Israel's government doesn't say they want to kill as many Palestinians as possible, but their actions show that that's what they actually do.

The sanctions on Iran being lifted is great - it means that the western governments don't have any trust in Netanyahu or other far right-wing politicians anymore.

​I am not doing anything but stating the truth, it is sad but it will be the supporting factor that will bring Europe down. And yes they are, I have tons of French friends that say they are afraid to even leave their homes sometimes due to terrorism. 

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims-2/

http://markhumphrys.com/islam.killings.html

Maybe 0.1 people die each day to islam currently, but what about the past? Do you know how many people the arabs murdered and raped, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, during their conquests for the caliphate and spread of islam? What about those unjustified murders?

Hamas was not elected because of Israel. They were elected because they promised the people an independent country, and, they made it far worse, and even sacrifice their own people to make Israel look bad to the media. No doubt that they succeeded, though. Did you know that 77% of Israeli arabs would rather be governed by the Israeli Government? Only 23% of them in the poll voted to rather be governed by their own people. Because they're not dumb, they know exactly what hamas has done and will keep doing. Just watch videos of pallywood exposed. Yet Israel is "the real terrorist". The media and antisemitic outlets make it seem like they blew up women and kids for the heck of it, and that is extremely wrong and no where close to the truth. 

[lego 44,165]

Here is Hamas trying to make Israel look bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lego 44,165]

Oh and Dolev, about that missing 22 year old, you mentioned earlier...

 

 

Security forces find Israeli presumed missing in West Bank

The case was initially being treated as a kidnapping, but it later emerged that the circumstances were linked to criminal activity. The army described the incident as a 'prank.'

 

An hours-long search for an Israeli presumed missing in the West Bank concluded on Thursday evening when he was found alive near the town of Kiryat Arba.

The case was initially being treated as a kidnapping, but the army later described the incident as a "prank."

Starting in the afternoon, security forces combed the area of Beit Anun, near Hebron, where Nir Asraf, a 22-year-old resident of Be'er Sheva, was persumed missing. IDF special forces units were deployed in the area as well.

Asraf's whereabouts were discovered after a friend who reported his disappearance admitted during questioning that he was lying. 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.650305

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

​Radicalism isn't good from any side. Right wing extremism is the biggest danger in Europe, though. It's killed more people and done more damage to Europe than radical Islamism has. Look what Breivik did. All because they're against a certain race or people. You're also doing that.

And I wouldn't say that 'The French people are scared for their lives'. They're not. About 10 people got killed. 9 people die in a car accident in French a day, and about 0,1 dies from radical islamism a day. There's no reason to not be scared for your life whenever you're travelling, if you're already scared to be killed by radical muslims in France.

Hamas was elected because of Israel. If it weren't for Israel, its' people would choose for a government based on social-economic ideas, rather than defense and who can shout 'WE'LL KILL OUR ENEMY!' the loudest. Same is happening in Israel. Difference is, Hamas doesn't actually manage to kill their enemy, eventhough they say they want to. Israel's government doesn't say they want to kill as many Palestinians as possible, but their actions show that that's what they actually do.

The sanctions on Iran being lifted is great - it means that the western governments don't have any trust in Netanyahu or other far right-wing politicians anymore. Now sanction Israel, for their war crimes and thousands of unjustified murders.

I know that weapons and new technology has been halted going to Israel for now.  Their latest annex triggered the ban by Obama.   But the next prez. Is hard to say.  Plus if Iran violates the new treaty.......we'll see.    

[lego 44,165]

@Pandemiya

Ross, the only reason you are trying to deny that Palestine and Palestinians ever existed is because you want to pretend that there is occupation at all, since it's all ''your'' land right.;) 

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true.

What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. 

“Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes.” Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright, “Their Promised Land.”

“But all these [different peoples who had come to Canaan] were additions, sprigs grafted onto the parent tree...And that parent tree was Canaanite...[The Arab invaders of the 7th century A.D.] made Moslem converts of the natives, settled down as residents, and intermarried with them, with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.”

“The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.” ” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.”

“Recent archeological digs have provided evidence that Jerusalem was a big and fortified city already in 1800 BCE...Findings show that the sophisticated water system heretofor attributed to the conquering Israelites pre-dated them by eight centuries and was even more sophisticated than imagined...Dr. Ronny Reich, who directed the excavation along with Eli Shuikrun, said the entire system was built as a single complex by Canaanites in the Middle Bronze Period, around 1800 BCE.” The Jewish Bulletin, July 31st, 1998.​

“Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics — including its name in Arabic, Filastin — became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance...In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic...Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

Michael Bar-Zohar (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers) openly admitted that it was a myth that "Palestine was an empty land," and to a certain degree, he managed to explain the evolution of the myth, he wrote:

"Whatever became of the slogan: A people without a land returns to land without a people? The simple truth was that Palestine was not an empty land, and the Jews were only a small minority of its population. In the days of the empire building, the Western powers had dismissed natives as an inconsequential factor in determining whether or not to settle a territory with immigrants. Even after the [1st] world war, the concept of self-determination . . . . was still reserved exclusively for the developed world." (Michael Bar-Zohar, p. 45-46)

According to Ben-Gurion's biographer, it's not only that Palestinians were the majority in their homeland as early as 1906, it also should be noted that:

The majority of Palestine's Jews were not citizens of the country, but guests from Tsarist Russia.

The Jews in Palestinian were mostly Orthodox Jews who made up 7.8% of the total population.

At the time, the majority of Orthodox Jews were non-Zionist. Actually, the majority were anti-Zionist.

Zionist pioneers were almost absent in Palestine as of 1906, and constituted only 1% of the total Jewish population in Palestine.

In 1891 Ahad Ha'Am opened many Jewish eyes to the fact the Palestine was not empty, but populated with its indigenous people when he wrote:

"We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated." (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

Israel Zangwill, who had visited Palestine in 1897 and came face-to-face with the demographic reality. He stated in 1905 in a speech to a Zionist group in Manchester that:

"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7- 10, and Righteous Victims, p. 140)

Ross: ''Did you know that no such country called "Palestine" ever marked on a map before 1948 by people other than the British prior to the Mandate of Palestine? Why are you trying to prove its existence with a book and coins made by the British whom called it Palestine to begin with?''

Map of Palestine ca. 1851

Map of Palestine ca. 1864

Map of Palestine ca. 1866

Palestine ca. 1887

Lawrence of Arabia's map showing Palestine ca. 1918

Map of the known world, 43AD (Oh, look! Palestina!)

 

 

 

 

 

[Melech 9,900]

​

The sanctions on Iran being lifted is great - it means that the western governments don't have any trust in Netanyahu or other far right-wing politicians anymore. Now sanction Israel, for their war crimes and thousands of unjustified murders.

​You seriously think that a country who swore to destroy Israel should be allowed to have nukes? 

[lego 44,165]

Ross: 

 Abraham led the Jewish people out of Israel into Memphis

....

So no, you are wrong Mrs. Lego, most Jews can trace their heritage back to Israel unless someone in their bloodline were converts. 

 

 

 

 

 Under the heading of "A brief History of the Terms for Jew" in the 1980 Jewish Almanac is the following:

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."
(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

 

Encyclopedia Americana (1985):
Encyclopedia Americana
"Khazar, an ancient Turkic speaking people who ruled a large and powerful state in the steppes North of the Caucasus Mountains from the 7th century to their demise in the mid 11th century A.D... In the 8th Century it's political and religious head... as well as the greater part of the Khazar nobility, abandoned paganism and converted to Judaism... (The Khazars are believed to be the ancestors of most Russian and Eastern European Jews)."

 

Encyclopedia BritannicaEncyclopedia Britannica (15th edition):
"Khazars, confederation of Turkic and Iranian tribes that established a major commercial empire in the second half of the 6th century, covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia... In the middle of the 8th century the ruling classes adopted Judaism as their religion."

 

Encyclopedia Americana (1985):
"Ashkenazim, the Ashkenazim are the Jews whose ancestors lived in German lands...it was among Ashkenazi Jews that the idea of political Zionism emerged, leading ultimately to the establishment of the state of Israel... In the late 1960s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered some 11 million, about 84 percent of the world Jewish population."

 

The Jewish Encyclopedia:
"Khazars, a non-Semitic, Asiatic, Mongolian tribal nation who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century, who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by the expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserabia and Rumania."

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:
"The primary meaning of Ashkenaz and Ashkenazim in Hebrew is Germany and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of the ancient ancestors of the Germans is Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz... Krauss is of the opinion that in the early medieval ages the Khazars were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim... About 92 percent of all Jews or approximately 14,500,000 are Ashkenazim."

 

Kimyarite King Adopts Judaism and Converts His Army and People: Kimyarite (Himyarite) see Sabeans (Jewish Encyclopedia, p. 403)

Relentless research established as equally true that the 'Jews' in Eastern Europe at no time in their history could be correctly regarded as the direct lineal descendants of the legendary ‘lost ten tribes’ of Bible lore. The ‘Jews’ in Eastern Europe in modern history cannot legitimately point to a single ancient ancestor who ever set even a foot on the soil of Palestine in the era of Bible history.

Research also revealed that the 'Jews' in Eastern Europe were never ‘Semites,’ are not ‘Semites’ now, nor can they ever be regarded as ‘Semites’ at any future time by any stretch of the imagination. Exhaustive research also irrevocably rejects as a fantastic fabrication the generally accepted belief by Christians that the 'Jews' in Eastern Europe are the legendary 'Chosen People' so very vocally publicized by the Christian clergy from their pulpits..."

Facts Are Facts, by Benjamin Freedman:

The American Peoples Encyclopedia for 1954 at 15-292 records the following in reference to the Khazars:
"In the year 740 A.D. the Khazars were officially converted to Judaism. A century later they were crushed by the incoming Slavic-speaking people and were scattered over central Europe where they were known as Jews.

 

The Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 10, (1971) relates the following about the Khazars (Chazars):
"Khazars, a national group of general Turkic type, independent and sovereign in Eastern Europe between the seventh and tenth centuries A.D. During part of this time the leading Khazars professed Judaism."
(Encyclopedia Judicia, Vol. 10, (1971))

 

The Jewish EncyclopediaThe Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:
"Khazars, a medieval people, probably related to the Volga Bulgars, whose ruling class adopted Judaism during the 8th cent. The Khazars seem to have emerged during the 6th cent., from the vast nomadic Hun (Turki) empire which stretched from the steppes of Eastern Europe and the Volga basin to the Chinese frontier. Although it is often claimed that allusions to the Khazars are found as early as 200 C.E., actually they are not mentioned until 627...Most Jewish Historians date the conversion of the Khazar King to Judaism during the first half of this century {A.D.}..."

 

The Jewish author Alfred M. Lilienthal relates the following concerning Jewish history:

"...The existence of [The State of] Israel is not founded on logic. It has no ordinary legitimacy. There is neither in its establishment nor present scope any evident justice - though there may be an utter need and wondrous fulfillment.'...

Arthur Koestler answers this question with an emphatic 'NO!' In his 1976 best seller The Thirteenth Tribe, he dropped another bombshell by proving that today’s Jews were, for the most part, descendants of Khazars, who converted to Judaism seven centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D... Therefore, the great majority of Eastern European Jews are not Semitic Jews at all, and as most Western European Jews came from East Europe, most of them also are not Semitic Jews. Thus, maintains Koestler, the veins of 45 percent of Israelis (save only the Arab and the Sephardic Jews), plus a big majority of Jews around the world, are utterly vacant of corpuscular links to the tribe of Moses and Solomon...

The Koestler thesis, however startling, is in no wise a new one. The genetic Khazar derivation of most Jews, only the Sephardic may be accounted Hebrews by blood, has been long if not widely known...The home to which Weismann, Silver, Ben-Gurion and so many other Ashkenazim Zionists have long yearned to return has most likely never been theirs... [it is an] anthropological fact, many Christians may have much more Hebrew-Israelite blood in their veins than most of their Jewish neighbors!

Ironically enough, too, Volume IV of the Jewish Encyclopedia (as of the time of research, 1952), because this publication spelled Khazars with a 'C' instead of a 'K,' is titled 'Chazars to Dreyfus.' And it was the famed trial of Captain Alfred Dreyfus, as interpreted by Theodore Herzl, that made the modern Jewish Khazars of Russia...forget their descent from converts to Judaism...to establish the State of Israel... and with out the hue and cry, ‘Anti-Semitism,’ pray what happens to the Zionist movement?

Khazar conversion was not unique...who can say for sure that many Christian readers of this book might not in fact have a better claim, which they do not choose to exercise, to go back ‘home’ to Palestine than Hannah Semer, Menachem Begin, or Golda Meir? Queen Victoria herself belonged to an Israelite society that traced the ancestry of its membership back to the lost tribes of Israel.

When the word 'Judaism' was born, there was no longer a Hebrew-Israelite State. The people who embraced the creed of Judaism were already a mixture of many nations, races, and strains, and this diversification was rapidly growing..."
(The Zionist Connection II, Alfred M. Lilienthal, pp. 759-768)

 

The Jewish author, Arthur Koestler, relates the following concerning Jewish history: In his 1976 bestseller The Thirteenth Tribe, the Author of Darkness at Noon, Promise and Fulfillment, and The Roots of Coincidence dropped another bombshell by proving that today’s Jews were, for the most part, descendants of Khazars, who converted to Judaism seven centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

"This, of course, is inspired by the story of the Covenant in Genesis; and it implies that the Khazars too claimed the status of a Chosen Race, who made their own Covenant with the Lord, even though they [Khazars] were not descended from Abraham’s seed ... He cannot, and does not, claim for them [the Khazars] Semitic descent, he traces their [Khazars] ancestry not to Shem, but to Noah’s third son, Japheth or more precisely to Japheth’s grandson, Togarma, the ancestor of all Turkish tribes.

'We have found in the family registers of our fathers,' Joseph asserts boldly, 'that Togarma had ten sons, and the names of their offspring are as follows: Uigur, Dursu, Avars, Huns, Basilii, Tarniakh, Khazars, Zagora, Bulgars, Sabir. We [Khazars] are the sons of Khazar, the seventh...'" 
(The Thirteenth Tribe, Arthur Koestler, pages 58-82)