Ukraine is pretext for US lobby to go on with sanctions against Russia

[faux 2,190]

Is my country is guilty of all sins? Falling aircraft, war in the Ukraine, Greece's exit from the EU terrorist attack in France, dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Second World War? Strange ... 

 

 

 

what are you even talking about

 

Falling aircraft (mh17), war in the Ukraine - yes :)

Greece's exit from the EU - what are you even talking about lmao

terrorist attack in France - terrorists

dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - US

the Second World War - nazis :)

 

i don't get what you're trying to say?

 

if we are mentioning hiroshima and nagasaki can i mention that the soviet military killed 13 people in Lithuania during the january 13th events? :)

 

orrr

 

Soviet deportations from Lithuania???  a series of 35 mass deportations carried out in the Lithuanian SSR, a republic of the Soviet Union, in 1941 and 1945–1952. At least 130,000 people, 70% of them women and children,[2] were forcibly transported to labor camps and other forced settlements in remote parts of the Soviet Union, particularly in the Irkutsk Oblast and Krasnoyarsk Krai. These deportations do not include Lithuanian partisans or political prisoners (approximately 150,000 people) deported to Gulags. Approximately 28,000 of Lithuanian deportees died in exile due to poor living conditions.

 

orrr the soviets killing lithuanian partisans? It is estimated that a total of 30,000 Lithuanian partisans and their supporters were killed

 

don't come at me saying russia and the soviet union are two different things because it was created by mother russia and im bringing this up because you are too

[BULATIO 1,635]

what are you even talking about

 

Falling aircraft (mh17), war in the Ukraine - yes :)

Greece's exit from the EU - what are you even talking about lmao

terrorist attack in France - terrorists

dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - US

the Second World War - nazis :)

 

i don't get what you're trying to say?

 

if we are mentioning hiroshima and nagasaki can i mention that the soviet military killed 13 people in Lithuania during the january 13th events? :)

 

orrr

 

Soviet deportations from Lithuania???  a series of 35 mass deportations carried out in the Lithuanian SSR, a republic of the Soviet Union, in 1941 and 1945–1952. At least 130,000 people, 70% of them women and children,[2] were forcibly transported to labor camps and other forced settlements in remote parts of the Soviet Union, particularly in the Irkutsk Oblast and Krasnoyarsk Krai. These deportations do not include Lithuanian partisans or political prisoners (approximately 150,000 people) deported to Gulags. Approximately 28,000 of Lithuanian deportees died in exile due to poor living conditions.

 

orrr the soviets killing lithuanian partisans? It is estimated that a total of 30,000 Lithuanian partisans and their supporters were killed

 

don't come at me saying russia and the soviet union are two different things because it was created by mother russia and im bringing this up because you are too

:rip:Lithuanian people deported? And? It's worse than nuke Japan? Yes, I agree that the Soviet government at the time was not right, but throw a bomb - it is immoral.  

 

Do u even know where I live?

And my countries has no laws against homos-xuals. We have a law against discrimination of homos-xuals unlike your country. We don't persecute them

The death of the inhabitants of Donbass or gay rights? It is important to save the east of Ukraine on kievs terror. Law against gays can cancel anytime, anywhere, but the war - not so easy!

[Luc 4,776]

"Austria for example, who don’t really want to go down this road"

Austria is dependent on Russian gas for over 50%. They want to stop sanctioning Russia out of fear of Russia blocking the gas supply.

"Francois Hollande, the French President, said that the EU hoped that sanctions would soon be lifted."

That's taken out of context. It's a different way of sayinv that they hope that the war will stop in Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea by Russia will stop so they can stop sanctioning them and be partners again.

"hard neo-conservative lobby in America puts pressure on some European countries to go along with these sanctions."

That's untrue, considering the US lifted sanctions on Crimea last month. The EU didn't. If there really was such a lobby in the US, would sanctions actually be lifted?

"I think this reveals to us the split that there is within the EU."

The only mildly pro-Russian country in the EU is Greece. There's no split in the EU, everybody condemns Russia's funding of seperatists in East-Ukraine and them trying to annexate even more parts of East-Ukraine, like they did in Crimea - where they also claimed to not fund seperatists and to not have their own defenses there fighting against Ukraine.

This is basically anti-West propaganda. Blame it all on the US, use a flashy, scary word ("neo-conservatism") to scare the readers, saying how the countries in Europe are oh so devided, etc.

[bumblebee 2,528]

If you are from Russia then you better not create posts like that in order not to bring even more harm to the image of Russia which has sunk deeper than ever because of the situation over Ukraine. You are bringing a pro-Russian TV channel as a source, and a random interview with a journalist   

 

You want to make it seem like there have always been people in the USA who wanted to isolate Russia from the world economics. Theoretically, yes, such people could exist, considering most of people occupying serious positions in US Defense Organizations were born and raised during the times of Cold War. But this is just a theory, no more than that, and unless you can really provide some thoughtful proof for it, except for an interview like the one you posted, you better do some more research and do not rush. 

 

The situation in Ukraine is strange indeed, and I would love to hear people in this thread having somehow a more constructive conversation. There are many things I can't understand and I would love to hear your opinion on it.

 

1) The change of power that happened in last March in Ukraine was unconstitutional. By saying that I don't mean it was right or wrong, I just mean the following: people who took the power after the President escaped the country could not do it according to the Constitution of Ukraine. The text has instructions for such a situation, and there were other people who were lawfully meant to take the charge (prime minister and others). Strangely, the text was ignored and  mr. Turchinov became for some weird reason the temporary acting President. 

 

The protests which took place in the Eastern Regions and resulted in the infamous referendums of Lugansk and Donetsk regions were condemned as unlawful and unconstitutional by Ukrainian authorities at that time, but the simple question arising out of Aristotelian logic is: why are some people allowed to act unconstitutionally, while others - not? Why do some people think they could monopolize the right to act escaping the norms of Constitution, and then try to physically destroy those who have also acted unconstitutionally? This is strange 

 

2) What I also find very alarming: in 2008 Russia waged war on Georgia. It was  an open military conflict, when Russia publicly announced that its troops entered the Georgian territory. There were no sanctions passed against Russia then. 

 

In the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, the OSCE organization has said countless times that it has no proof of Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine. But the sanctions have been passed nonetheless. We may say this is because of Crimea annexations, but if you don't know, the war with Georgia resulted in the continuing break-away status of regions like Abkhazia and South Ossetia, where people were given Russian passports. This was not formally an annexation, but as close to it as it could ever be.

 

So why did not the EU impose any sanctions when Russia openly waged war against Georgia, de facto occupying Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but were so quick to impose sanctions when even the OSCE can't provide evidence for Russian troops entering the Ukrainian territory?

 

 

[Luc 4,776]

:rip:Lithuanian people deported? And? It's worse than nuke Japan? Yes, I agree that the Soviet government at the time was not right, but throw a bomb - it is immoral.  

 

The death of the inhabitants of Donbass or gay rights? It is important to save the east of Ukraine on kievs terror. Law against gays can cancel anytime, anywhere, but the war - not so easy!

Shooting down a plane is immoral.

Russia funds the seperatists in East-Ukraine. There's enough evidence of that. No country funds the Ukrainian government.

Stop talking about neo-fascists, neonazis and ultranationalists. It shows how brainwashed you are by Russian media. Everything Russian media says is taken out of context - only a small percentage of the Ukrainian population has neofascist views.

The war in Ukraine can stop if Russia stops funding seperatists and condemns killing from both sides and give Crimea back to Ukraine or have them be an independent country.

Homophobia is unrelated, but keep in mind that in West-European countries, gays are protected from discrimination and thus homophobic discrimination is constitionally illegal. Gays have the same rights as heteros-xuals here.

If the Western media brainwashed people, like Russia's media does, it would be said like this:

"Neonazi government in Russia signs anti-freedom of love laws, it reminds me of Nazi Germany in the 30s. First they make them unable to protest, take away their rights, and after that they will execute them in concentration camps just like the Nazi regime in Nazi Germany did during the Second Worldwar." That's propagnda. That's how Russian media talks like when talking about Ukraine. It's all about taking things out of context, comparing things to Nazi Germany, blowing things out of proportion and hiding the fact that Russia helps the seperatists in East-Ukraine kill thousands.

[Melech 9,900]

:rip:Lithuanian people deported? And? It's worse than nuke Japan? Yes, I agree that the Soviet government at the time was not right, but throw a bomb - it is immoral.  

 

The death of the inhabitants of Donbass or gay rights? It is important to save the east of Ukraine on kievs terror. Law against gays can cancel anytime, anywhere, but the war - not so easy!

I was Talking about gay rights

[BULATIO 1,635]

Shooting down a plane is immoral.

Russia funds the seperatists in East-Ukraine. There's enough evidence of that. No country funds the Ukrainian government.

Stop talking about neo-fascists, neonazis and ultranationalists. It shows how brainwashed you are by Russian media. Everything Russian media says is taken out of context - only a small percentage of the Ukrainian population has neofascist views.

The war in Ukraine can stop if Russia stops funding seperatists and condemns killing from both sides and give Crimea back to Ukraine or have them be an independent country.

Homophobia is unrelated, but keep in mind that in West-European countries, gays are protected from discrimination and thus homophobic discrimination is constitionally illegal. Gays have the same rights as heteros-xuals here.

If the Western media brainwashed people, like Russia's media does, it would be said like this:

"Neonazi government in Russia signs anti-freedom of love laws, it reminds me of Nazi Germany in the 30s. First they make them unable to protest, take away their rights, and after that they will execute them in concentration camps just like the Nazi regime in Nazi Germany did during the Second Worldwar." That's propagnda. That's how Russian media talks like when talking about Ukraine. It's all about taking things out of context, comparing things to Nazi Germany, blowing things out of proportion and hiding the fact that Russia helps the seperatists in East-Ukraine kill thousands.

Is it right to fight with his people? In Ukraine, the Russian-speaking Ukrainians live (this is the east and south of Ukraine), the Government of Kiev is fighting terrorism in the east ... where this terrorism? Donbas residents? Aircraft - is not the fault of my country.

[BULATIO 1,635]

If you are from Russia then you better not create posts like that in order not to bring even more harm to the image of Russia which has sunk deeper than ever because of the situation over Ukraine. You are bringing a pro-Russian TV channel as a source, and a random interview with a journalist   

 

You want to make it seem like there have always been people in the USA who wanted to isolate Russia from the world economics. Theoretically, yes, such people could exist, considering most of people occupying serious positions in US Defense Organizations were born and raised during the times of Cold War. But this is just a theory, no more than that, and unless you can really provide some thoughtful proof for it, except for an interview like the one you posted, you better do some more research and do not rush. 

 

The situation in Ukraine is strange indeed, and I would love to hear people in this thread having somehow a more constructive conversation. There are many things I can't understand and I would love to hear your opinion on it.

 

1) The change of power that happened in last March in Ukraine was unconstitutional. By saying that I don't mean it was right or wrong, I just mean the following: people who took the power after the President escaped the country could not do it according to the Constitution of Ukraine. The text has instructions for such a situation, and there were other people who were lawfully meant to take the charge (prime minister and others). Strangely, the text was ignored and  mr. Turchinov became for some weird reason the temporary acting President. 

 

The protests which took place in the Eastern Regions and resulted in the infamous referendums of Lugansk and Donetsk regions were condemned as unlawful and unconstitutional by Ukrainian authorities at that time, but the simple question arising out of Aristotelian logic is: why are some people allowed to act unconstitutionally, while others - not? Why do some people think they could monopolize the right to act escaping the norms of Constitution, and then try to physically destroy those who have also acted unconstitutionally? This is strange 

 

2) What I also find very alarming: in 2008 Russia waged war on Georgia. It was  an open military conflict, when Russia publicly announced that its troops entered the Georgian territory. There were no sanctions passed against Russia then. 

 

In the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, the OSCE organization has said countless times that it has no proof of Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine. But the sanctions have been passed nonetheless. We may say this is because of Crimea annexations, but if you don't know, the war with Georgia resulted in the continuing break-away status of regions like Abkhazia and South Ossetia, where people were given Russian passports. This was not formally an annexation, but as close to it as it could ever be.

 

So why did not the EU impose any sanctions when Russia openly waged war against Georgia, de facto occupying Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but were so quick to impose sanctions when even the OSCE can't provide evidence for Russian troops entering the Ukrainian territory?

 

 

Why organize this show around Russia and Europe itself? Prior to that, it was all quiet if not for the damn change of government in Kiev. 

[bumblebee 2,528]

Why organize this show around Russia and Europe itself? Prior to that, it was all quiet if not for the damn change of government in Kiev. 

I am afraid I can't understand what you mean, but indeed, Russia seem to not have plans for annexation of Crimea and funding the separatists before the semi-lawful change of power took place in Ukraine. It should be noted that Russia had peacefully cooperated with Ukrainian government when it was led by mr. Yushenko, who was a well known proponent of Ukrainian EU integration and NATO membership, and also with former president Yanukovich, who was a pro-Russian politician. The relationship between Russia and Kiev suffered a meltdown when the latest change of power took place

[BULATIO 1,635]

I am afraid I can't understand what you mean, but indeed, Russia seem to not have plans for annexation of Crimea and funding the separatists before the semi-lawful change of power took place in Ukraine. It should be noted that Russia had peacefully cooperated with Ukrainian government when it was led by mr. Yushenko, who was a well known proponent of Ukrainian EU integration and NATO membership, and also with former president Yanukovich, who was a pro-Russian politician. The relationship between Russia and Kiev suffered a meltdown when the latest change of power took place

Agree that the new government of Ukraine - disgusting. I am surprised by some of the statements that allegedly Ukraine nobody finances. If this were so, then the country has come an economic disaster!