Melech 9,900 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 you leave out the beginning of the verse where it says it's okay to kill in some circumstances though. it's dishonest to only put the end of the sentence which changes the meaning. :giggle: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 you leave out the beginning of the verse where it says it's okay to kill in some circumstances though. it's dishonest to only put the end of the sentence which changes the meaning. I knew you or someone would have issue with what I posted. [005:032] Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!. There ya go. Happy? I wish you ask the context when others try to prove opposite as well. That part was relevant, because that is what he did, saved 6 lives. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I knew you or someone would have issue with what I posted.That part was relevant, because that is what he did, saved 6 lives.i just think it's better to be honest about it. if this line inspired him to do good, then he doesn't take the quran literally, or looks over parts he doesn't like. which is fantastic. this is what christians and muslims have to do do be moral people in 2014. but it means he as a person is good, not the quran. because that sentence alone doesn't refer to just any type of saving, it means saving people who aren't involved in "spreading mischief in the land" etc. some people it's not okay to save. just like some people it's okay to kill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 you leave out the beginning of the verse where it says it's okay to kill in some circumstances though. it's dishonest to only put the end of the sentence which changes the meaning. lego always ignores certian parts of the picture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 i just think it's better to be honest about it. if this line inspired him to do good, then he doesn't take the quran literally, or looks over parts he doesn't like. which is fantastic. this is what christians and muslims have to do do be moral people in 2014. but it means he as a person is good, not the quran. because that sentence alone doesn't refer to just any type of saving, it means saving people who aren't involved in "spreading mischief in the land" etc. some people it's not okay to save. just like some people it's not okay to kill. So when terrorist kills he's inspired by his religion and his Holy Book, but when a person does a good deed he's just a good person and religion has nothing to do with it or he's skipping parts? No, that just means he understands his religion well. lego always ignores certian parts of the picture So if this man tells you to face that Islam taught him that life is sacred and that the ones who did mischief were terrorists, will you tell him he's a liar? FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 So when terrorist kills he's inspired by his religion and his Holy Book, but when a person does a good deed he's just a good person and religion has nothing to do with it or he's skipping parts? No, that just means he understands his religion well. no, it's more complex than that and i could get into it but maybe it's not the thread for it. basically maybe his religion did have something to do with encouraging the good act (although who wouldn't do this btw? even if he shared the extreme views of the terrorists he still doesn't want to die and there's no way he could be sure that he could convince them not to kill him too - and other people hanging about would make it more difficult for him to hide himself, plus being an extremist doesn't mean you're an entire sociopath but this isn't me saying that's how it is, just putting it out there), but it gives no credence to actual the goodness of being a muslim or the quran. there are conditions to that line, so it isn't all good. sometimes however the quran does say literally bad things that aren't taken out of context. and surely some good things, as well as good things that are taken out of context from the bad ones (like this one) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 So if this man tells you to face that Islam taught him that life is sacred and that the ones who did mischief were terrorists, will you tell him he's a liar? No. I'll tell him that religions belongs with the past, and that Islam is the only religion today that many of its believers still takes it as a whole and not only the good parts and morals. We can see it everywhere today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valextra 58 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Great gesture you leave out the beginning of the verse where it says it's okay to kill in some circumstances though. it's dishonest to only put the end of the sentence which changes the meaning. Don't even bothered of that, what can you expect from a person that clearly doesn't know the matter. The best that can you have is a past+copy from some yahoo answer kind of site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 no, it's more complex than that and i could get into it but maybe it's not the thread for it. basically maybe his religion did have something to do with encouraging the good act (although who wouldn't do this btw? even if he shared the extreme views of the terrorists he still doesn't want to die and there's no way he could be sure that he could convince them not to kill him too - and other people hanging about would make it more difficult for him to hide himself, plus being an extremist doesn't mean you're an entire sociopath but this isn't me saying that's how it is, just putting it out there), but it gives no credence to actual the goodness of being a muslim or the quran. there are conditions to that line, so it isn't all good. sometimes however the quran does say literally bad things that aren't taken out of context. and surely some good things, as well as good things that are taken out of context from the bad ones.It's not at all complex. There is a reason that extremists are in minority. There is a reason that young people with troubled past go with them and that they almost have no any scholars with them. You are now speculating about what happened only to minimize possibility that his religion made him a better and braver person. That is because you are biased and hate all religions. The verses and hadiths about certain topic need to be collected, the authenticity of hadiths has to be proven, the arabic language has to be mastered - to bring a rulling - that is why muslims have scholars who spend all their lives studying and teaching about these things. Majority of scholars speak against extremism and terrorism, and this is not the only verse they bring as evidence. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's not at all complex. There is a reason that extremists are in minority. There is a reason that young people with troubled past go with them and that they almost have no any scholars with them.You are now speculating about what happened only to minimize possibility that his religion made him a better and braver person. That is because you are biased and hate all religions.The verses and hadiths about certain topic need to be collected, the authenticity of hadiths has to be proven, the arabic language has to be mastered - to bring a rulling - that is why muslims have scholars who spend all their lives studying and teaching about these things.Majority of scholars speak against extremism and terrorism, and this is not the only verse they bring as evidence.they are a minority because secularism has pushed the extremists out. they didn't use to be the minority, you know. everyone knows about the bloody history of religion's past.that's not because i'm biased and hate all religions, it's because i love and believe in human beings and their inherent potential to do the right thing and think religions are insulting lies about human nature. but that's just me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Great gesture Don't even bothered of that, what can you expect from a person that clearly doesn't know the matter. The best that can you have is a past+copy from some yahoo answer kind of site. I have been studying Islam for 10 years and I can read and write(poorly) Arabic and I'm in contact with someone who knows well and who is in contact with some scholars. What do you know about it? FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valextra 58 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I have been studying Islam for 10 years and I can read and write(poorly) Arabic and I'm in contact with someone who knows well and who is in contact with some scholars. What do you know about it? The answers and arguments that you constantly give in this forum speak for themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think a religion can support to do good things. I know I said otherwise in the past. It's just in your human nature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think a religion can support to do good things. I know I said otherwise in the past. It's just in your human nature. Exactly. We are all humans and it's up to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valextra 58 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think a religion can support to do good things. I know I said otherwise in the past. It's just in your human nature. Exactly it's called commonsense, human sympathy. Help another person in difficulty is not a thing that has to do with religion by force. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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