uo111 5,282 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 probably also drove those atomic bombs to japan as well right? edit: why am i trying to defend religion? the **** never works out. Which ended a war caused by religion. Science always having to clean up after religions messes. The discrimination that christians (among other people) face in the middle east is widespread, everyday, and extreme. Muslims face very little discrimination in the western world by comparison. Unless you consider people thinking badly of them as discrimination (which would be wrong). Just because christians are one of the largest religious groups in most western countries doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against elsewhere. That being said, certain muslims discriminate against literally everyone so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luiz 4,253 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Which ended a war caused by religion. Science always having to clean up after religions messes. The discrimination that christians (among other people) face in the middle east is widespread, everyday, and extreme. Muslims face very little discrimination in the western world by comparison. Unless you consider people thinking badly of them as discrimination (which would be wrong). Just because christians are one of the largest religious groups in most western countries doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against elsewhere. That being said, certain muslims discriminate against literally everyone so... ok explain that one or direct me to where i can read up on how religion caused japan to bomb pearl harbor. or are you saying WW2 was caused by religion? or is it the emperor being sort of a deity/mandate of heaven thing? I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 ok explain that one or direct me to where i can read up on how religion caused japan to bomb pearl harbor. or are you saying WW2 was caused by religion? or is it the emperor being sort of a deity/mandate of heaven thing? Japan wouldn't have been enemies with the US if it wasn't allied with Germany (well maybe eventually as they were imperialistic at the time, but certainly not that early). And Hitler gained control in large part due to religious tensions after WWI. The Japanese people wouldn't have blindly followed their emperor if they didn't view him as a God either (if you need proof, look at the kamikaze bombers). You could attribute that to nationalism but then if someone asked you what their nationalism stemmed for, what would you say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luiz 4,253 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Japan wouldn't have been enemies with the US if it wasn't allied with Germany (well maybe eventually as they were imperialistic at the time, but certainly not that early). And Hitler gained control in large part due to religious tensions after WWI. The Japanese people wouldn't have blindly followed their emperor if they didn't view him as a God either (if you need proof, look at the kamikaze bombers). You could attribute that to nationalism but then if someone asked you what their nationalism stemmed for, what would you say? i would blame their involvement more on the alliance with germany rather than the religions hatred towards jews in germany. and what about the treaty of versailles? doesnt the german resentment of the treaty terms after WW1 have more to do with them starting a war and trying to take german territory back? and the persecution of jews/concentration camps stuff went on for a while before germany even went to war. did england/russia/france even know about the holocaust going on before going to war and how significant of a factor was it in the decision of any of the countries involved declaring war on germany? i honestly dont see religion being the number 1 factor in starting ww2 edit: btw re-reading my post it comes off as if i'm blaming science for starting wars more than religion, i'm not. its a mixture of a lot of issues that make countries wiling to go to war I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 i would blame their involvement more on the alliance with germany rather than the religions hatred towards jews in germany. and what about the treaty of versailles? doesnt the german resentment of the treaty terms after WW1 have more to do with them starting a war and trying to take german territory back? and the persecution of jews/concentration camps stuff went on for a while before germany even went to war. did england/russia/france even know about the holocaust going on before going to war and how significant of a factor was it in the decision of any of the countries involved declaring war on germany? i honestly dont see religion being the number 1 factor in starting ww2 The concentration camps had very little influence in other countries entering the war, that's very true. But also not really relevant. The poor conditions of Germany at the time of course played a big part but Hitler had to have a group to target. The Jewish people weren't targeted by random, that is where religion played a big factor. Hitler used religious differences to gather people onto his side in order to rise to power. Hatred for a group actually brings people together. It's a weird thing. But Hitler used that, and his primary target was a religious one. Hitler coming to power pretty much brought about WWII. Yes there were factors involved other than religious ones, but that is not to say Religion did not play a part. You have to remember, even 80 years ago the thinking was much more primitive (for lack of a better word) than it is today. Religious differences in the western world back then were more intense than they are today. Even if Religion isn't the number 1 factor (debatable, mostly depending on what you consider the contributing factors to WWII), it was at least number 2 by any standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luiz 4,253 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The concentration camps had very little influence in other countries entering the war, that's very true. But also not really relevant. The poor conditions of Germany at the time of course played a big part but Hitler had to have a group to target. The Jewish people weren't targeted by random, that is where religion played a big factor. Hitler used religious differences to gather people onto his side in order to rise to power. Hatred for a group actually brings people together. It's a weird thing. But Hitler used that, and his primary target was a religious one. Hitler coming to power pretty much brought about WWII. Yes there were factors involved other than religious ones, but that is not to say Religion did not play a part. You have to remember, even 80 years ago the thinking was much more primitive (for lack of a better word) than it is today. Religious differences in the western world back then were more intense than they are today. Even if Religion isn't the number 1 factor (debatable, mostly depending on what you consider the contributing factors to WWII), it was at least number 2 by any standard. i guess agree to disagree then but as you said it isnt the number 1 factor so i wouldnt say religion started that war. also when the german army came back before hitler had even come into power the german government was telling the people that the german military had never been defeated. i think the loss of the world war and humiliating treaty after did more to destroy german morale and when a countries moral is that low i think they gravitate towards anyone with charisma such as hitler and who can make them feel proud to be german again. i believe religion plays a factor in this and of course the propaganda pushed by the nazis as well but not the number 1 factor in creating the world war 2. honestly if you really want to you can go back in time however long you want and just pick whichever domino you want and try and make a case for that as the main cause. kinda pointless I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 i guess agree to disagree then but as you said it isnt the number 1 factor so i wouldnt say religion started that war. also when the german army came back before hitler had even come into power the german government was telling the people that the german military had never been defeated. i think the loss of the world war and humiliating treaty after did more to destroy german morale and when a countries moral is that low i think they gravitate towards anyone with charisma such as hitler and who can make them feel proud to be german again. i believe religion plays a factor in this and of course the propaganda pushed by the nazis as well but not the number 1 factor in creating the world war 2. honestly if you really want to you can go back in time however long you want and just pick whichever domino you want and try and make a case for that as the main cause. kinda pointless Hmm, I never meant to imply religion was the only cause of WWII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luiz 4,253 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Hmm, I never meant to imply religion was the only cause of WWII. oh well i was replying to someone who said religion overall leads to war or something like that and you said the atomic bombs(i brought the atomic bombs into the discussion) ended a war caused by religion so i assumed you meant that religion was the main cause so sorry for the misunderstanding there I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagaloo911 12,959 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 You're making it sound like it's ok to be discriminated just because you're a minority Well I was more so just pointing out the flawed logic in his claim. But I suppose I kinda did, didn't mean it that way. There shouldn't be any discrimination and I'm not ok with it. Unfortunately it's a fact of life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teo 609 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Well I was more so just pointing out the flawed logic in his claim. But I suppose I kinda did, didn't mean it that way. There shouldn't be any discrimination and I'm not ok with it. Unfortunately it's a fact of life. Yeah that's true. Oh well, I guess all we have to do is hope for a world with no discrimination. I doubt we'll be alive to witness it tho... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagaloo911 12,959 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Yeah that's true. Oh well, I guess all we have to do is hope for a world with no discrimination. I doubt we'll be alive to witness it tho... Yea people are too judgmental and close-minded to open their worldview and be okay with people who hold different beliefs from their own. So likely won't ever be a world without it =\ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteMyAccount 11,881 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Why don't Christians get out then? If research says they'll be extinct in the future then.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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