Scotland rejects independence from Britain in a close vote

[FKAJAKE 5]

It's starting No voters, David Cameron is punishing us! We had one chance

 

calm down he isn't going to kill everyone 

 

u literally sound completely deluded, Scotland voted, and they voted no.

[craig 680]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/22/alex-salmond-suggests-scotland-can-unilaterally-declare-independence-without-another-referendum-claims-no-voters-were-tricked/

Here Salmond sounds like a divisive, undemocratic, ageist, sore loser. Even Parizeau didn't talk about unilaterally declaring independence after losing a referendum.   

[Better Day 5,766]

calm down he isn't going to kill everyone 

 

u literally sound completely deluded, Scotland voted, and they voted no.

 

Yeah Scotland voted. Doesn't stop my beliefs. The 'No' vote is driving me even more for independence. We will get it. 

 

Today we mourn. Tomorrow we hope

[StrawberryBlond 15,564]

But it actually WAS what swayed a lot of people, the promise of new powers? It was something that was PROMISED by your precious No campaign, and less than 24 hours later, it was destroyed. We don’t need Salmond to point it out, we can see for ourselves that many people were gullible, insult taken or otherwise, it’s a fact - many people believed the promise, they voted for that reason, now they have been sorely disappointed. I’m sorry, there’s just no way you can dispute that. They. broke. their. promise. Whether you hate Salmond or not.

 

“Forcing†independence - you still don’t actually realise that independence is the best thing for this country. I would’ve thought this demonstration by Westminster of a complete lack of care for Scotland made it evident we need to get out of their lying, cheating grip… but no, you’re still hanging onto hatred for a single politician. I think you forget that independence doesn’t necessarily mean having Alex Salmond in charge.

 

You can say all you want about how he changed his decision, but he did so appropriately. Many people, both Yes and No are extremely offended by their attempt to dick us about. He has more than enough reason to change his stance; they’re being twats to us, and you do not even see it. He did not LIE to the public to cheat them into voting in his favour. At least the Yes campaign was built on people power and not lies & money.

 

No, it’s not that “nothing is immediateâ€, it’s that it’s not going to happen. Too many are already saying they won’t support these new laws, people who said they would. Funnily enough, the time they change their mind is AFTER we’ve voted to stay in their control.

 

The No campaign was built on lies from the beginning, as I’ve said OVER and OVER in this thread. They’ve literally been trying to scare us with “facts†from “experts†and stupid stories of how we’ll need a passport to cross the border………. it’s ridiculous and I can’t believe anyone would stand for it. If it’s an insult that I think you’re stupid for believing it, then yes, take it as an insult. That’s how it is, you’re being lied to.

 

We were hard done by. Our dream was stolen by lies, money and greed. I see many No voters feeling deflated and some have actually approached me apologising for voting No - they know that they’ve ruined everything.

 

Your "evidence" that independence would not work out is again heavily debatable and has been shown to be wrong. Sorry, that's how it is. I'm not going to repeat that over and over again.

 

Are you happy about the fact you might not be able to afford sending your children to university? Or about the fact nurses may have to turn away patients who can’t afford healthcare? What about the fact there’s hundreds of thousands on our streets living on next to nothing, while money is heavily invested in a nuclear weapon we didn’t want?

 

Tell me again how it’s a massive deal banks and businesses will move HQ to England after you read that, and then I will actually be fighting a lost cause.

 

No it wasn't. That promise came so late in the day that minds had already been made up anyway. You haven't carried out a survey of why people voted no and you don't have to - it's obvious why. To quote a fellow No voter: "I didn't vote No because I believed what Westminister promised. I voted No because I didn't believe what the SNP promised." No voters were giving their reasons for their choice well before the promise was made. And apart from that one poll, in every poll leading up to the election put No in the lead, again, before the promise was made. So, keep on telling yourself that bull**** if it helps you to sleep at night, but don't actually say it out loud because you're going to annoy a lot of people.

 

No one's going to convince me that independence it wise - we struggle with England's help, we'd be a basket case on our own. There's not enough jobs to go round and too many would be put at risk. There are actually people who it was confirmed to them that they would lose their job if independence happened. And quite simply, the hassle and stress of it all is not fair on the people. Our bonds with the UK run too deep to change without major downsides. I'm not against independence just because I dislike Salmond and I do realise that he wasn't necessarily going to be in charge, it's mostly because I don't believe in nationalism. I did once (when I was in my late teens, oddly enough, the age range Salmond allowed to vote, how coincidental), but, like a lot of people, it was something I abandoned as I grew older and understood politics and economics better, as well as getting a better view of the world. In this age, we can't separate and divide ourselves unless something really bad happens that's unforgiveable. Divorce is something you should only do when the relationship is broken beyond repair and the union is not so bad that it requires a break up. 

 

The devolution laws have a deadline of when they must be decided on, which is May 2015. They were never going to show up overnight. Give it time. No, I don't trust politicians, but this is different from any other piece of hot air a politician spouts: they took a vow, which is completely different and must be upheld by its very nature. Still not the reason why I voted no, but I'm just giving you the facts. And it's odd how you're pointing out that there's starting to be opposition to this promise but it only arose after the voting was over because that's one of the reasons that the No voters voted no: the SNP did not give us a clear plan about what they wanted to do in an independent Scotland and insisted that these questions would be seen to after the referendum. Therefore, we had no idea what a Yes vote would actually give us and that they might have led us down the garden path. Like Gordon Brown said the night before the vote: "They have no idea what they're doing - they're leading you into a trap." The SNP had all these years to create a solid plan of independence with every question answered and they failed and only offered fantasy rather than reality. No wonder they didn't win - their sales pitch would've been laughed off Dragon's Den, never mind the world stage.

 

It's clear to me that I cannot reason with you as you insist that the No campaign was built on lies. You can't seem to see that the passion for your country's freedom has blinded your judgement. Salmond only encouraged his supporters to believe that the No campaign was scaremongering and being desperate for his own ends because he was getting concerned that he wouldn't win. He started to get worried that No would win, so he started making personal attacks on the campaign, which is a classic sign of insecurity in ones own abilities. I don't get why you're complaining about lying politicians, yet you support the SNP, who were all lying or simply didn't have a clue. I wouldn't put Salmond in charge of a lemonade stand, never mind a country. Everyone in that team was just playing on national pride to secure a vote and they would have gone to any lengths to get it.

 

Whoever's telling you that they regretted voting No are pretty spineless. They were probably in the undecided minority beforehand because those who were No right from the beginning have been very confident post-referendum. We are thrilled that life is continuing on as normal. We didn't ask for this referendum, it was forced upon us. If anyone doesn't like the way their country is governed, move somewhere else. Don't force everyone else into believing the same way. Countries splitting up causes so much stress - who wants or needs that? Isn't life difficult enough? So many of your complaints of being under the union are just basic downsides of life. The whole world is enduring these things and they don't want to go independent. There are countries where wars are going on - these are countries that might need to separate for good reason. Scotland doesn't get a few PM's that they want, so they get their toys on the pram. We live in a first world, free, democratic country, for goodness sake. You have so many privelages that a billion people would give their right arm for. That's why so many people are immigrating to Britain. Everyone else can see what a great country this is to live in, except us, for all we do is complain about it. Everyone seems to think their country sucks, but they don't think they should start splitting parts of it up. Why? It would make everything 10x worse.

[FKAJAKE 5]

Yeah Scotland voted. Doesn't stop my beliefs. The 'No' vote is driving me even more for independence. We will get it. 

 

Today we mourn. Tomorrow we hope

 

o m g     

 

 

 

 

deleted it bcos it was so long, but u wrote it really well, and I hope the Yes voters eventually see that this result is better for Scotland.

[Better Day 5,766]

I am still waiting for this 'better' Scotland.

Better Together... My arse

[StrawberryBlond 15,564]

I am still waiting for this 'better' Scotland.

Better Together... My arse

​Please stop being so obsessed with this. The country can never change overnight and if we had got independent, change wouldn't have happened overnight either. You do realise it was going to take a full year before we were officially declared an independent country, right? (meaning our independence wouldn't have actually come into effect until September 2015). And then, it was going to take another 2-3 years before all the details (official country status, currency, passports, name changes, etc). had been completely split and sorted out and we were fully on our feet? Do you really believe independence occurs overnight and it's a clean switch-over? Face it, it would have caused so much hassle and we'd have regretted it massively. Jan Moir wrote this fantastic article about how the extremist SNP supporters and the party itself make her ashamed to be Scottish and one of the things she brought up was this misconception that the Tories are to blame for NHS cuts and staff doing double shifts. In reality, just like Wales and NI, Scotland is given a block grant and then the devolved administrations in that country decide how it will be spent. The SNP has been in charge of the NHS's budget for years. And yet, SNP supporters think the Tories are always to blame. I doubt the NHS would improve under an independent Scotland if this is the case.

You need to move on. You're pinning too many hopes on this. It's not healthy.

[Better Day 5,766]

​Please stop being so obsessed with this. The country can never change overnight and if we had got independent, change wouldn't have happened overnight either. You do realise it was going to take a full year before we were officially declared an independent country, right? (meaning our independence wouldn't have actually come into effect until September 2015). And then, it was going to take another 2-3 years before all the details (official country status, currency, passports, name changes, etc). had been completely split and sorted out and we were fully on our feet? Do you really believe independence occurs overnight and it's a clean switch-over? Face it, it would have caused so much hassle and we'd have regretted it massively. Jan Moir wrote this fantastic article about how the extremist SNP supporters and the party itself make her ashamed to be Scottish and one of the things she brought up was this misconception that the Tories are to blame for NHS cuts and staff doing double shifts. In reality, just like Wales and NI, Scotland is given a block grant and then the devolved administrations in that country decide how it will be spent. The SNP has been in charge of the NHS's budget for years. And yet, SNP supporters think the Tories are always to blame. I doubt the NHS would improve under an independent Scotland if this is the case.

You need to move on. You're pinning too many hopes on this. It's not healthy

 

Sure jan 

[Luiz 4,253]

bumped a thread just to get shaded  

[Better Day 5,766]

bumped a thread just to get shaded  

At least some of us believe in equality unlike the essay writer

[hmm 979]

At least some of us believe in equality unlike the essay writer

​Believing in equality is all fine and dandy (and is obviously to be commended), living in reality is another equally important aspect. 

[Better Day 5,766]

​Believing in equality is all fine and dandy (and is obviously to be commended), living in reality is another equally important aspect. 

That is why I believe in socialist. Karl Marx is my bae

[StrawberryBlond 15,564]

Sure jan 

​That's all you can say? Where is all your intelligent reasoning that you did in the run-up to the referendum? If you believed that independence is truly the way forward and has no downsides, why can you not answer any critiques?

At least some of us believe in equality unlike the essay writer

​Oh, I do believe in equality. The problem is, you don't realise what that word means. You seem to think it means "if we want something, we should get it." Equality means everyone gets a say. That means that the No voters have every right to not want independence and vote against it. Yes voters are always banging on about an independent Scotland would be a true democracy when that is exactly what the referendum result displayed: democracy. The majority of the public said no and their wish was granted. That's democracy. Once again, democracy does not mean "I'll get exactly what I want." It means having the chance to get what you want...but not guaranteed it. The SNP and its supporters seem to want to hold referendum after referendum until they get the result that they personally want. They want to bully the No voters into changing their beliefs and try to take away the right to vote of potential No voters (Salmond once said that he would even consider not giving the elderly a chance to vote in the next referendum). That is not democracy. That's a dictatorship.

I'm only saying all this because I care. You may not like what I have to say but I'm not saying it to be mean or to gloat about how independence failed. I'm saying it because I want you to open your eyes to the party you are supporting and the very real risks of going independent that you don't seem to see. Your obsession over this issue is worrying. If we ever do get independence, your expectations of a new Scotland are going to be so high that nothing will ever live up to it.

[Better Day 5,766]

​That's all you can say? Where is all your intelligent reasoning that you did in the run-up to the referendum? If you believed that independence is truly the way forward and has no downsides, why can you not answer any critiques?

​Oh, I do believe in equality. The problem is, you don't realise what that word means. You seem to think it means "if we want something, we should get it." Equality means everyone gets a say. That means that the No voters have every right to not want independence and vote against it. Yes voters are always banging on about an independent Scotland would be a true democracy when that is exactly what the referendum result displayed: democracy. The majority of the public said no and their wish was granted. That's democracy. Once again, democracy does not mean "I'll get exactly what I want." It means having the chance to get what you want...but not guaranteed it. The SNP and its supporters seem to want to hold referendum after referendum until they get the result that they personally want. They want to bully the No voters into changing their beliefs and try to take away the right to vote of potential No voters (Salmond once said that he would even consider not giving the elderly a chance to vote in the next referendum). That is not democracy. That's a dictatorship.

I'm only saying all this because I care. You may not like what I have to say but I'm not saying it to be mean or to gloat about how independence failed. I'm saying it because I want you to open your eyes to the party you are supporting and the very real risks of going independent that you don't seem to see. Your obsession over this issue is worrying. If we ever do get independence, your expectations of a new Scotland are going to be so high that nothing will ever live up to it.

​Sorry I was having a bad day yesterday so excuse the "sure jan". 

Yes 55% of Scotland voted against leaving the union. What about us 45% who voted for independence. Are we to just shut up and sit in the corner and take whatever is thrown at us by the current tory government? No I don't believe so. They are a movement for independence now. Yes if they are another no vote if they were ever another referendum and the gap is smaller it would mean the independence movement is growing. I am personally not a fan of Alex Salmond, he's smarmy in my opinion so I disregard his comments. I believe we will get independence because of the state Britain is in today. (However that is another debate). 

I respect your stance on independence however, I still hold the view that Scotland would be a fair and more equal country if we gained independence. I never expected Scotland to be a perfect country if we gained independence, I was actually sh*tting myself about a yes vote the week before the referendum. I just wanted a egalitarian nation that provided for the 100% rather than the 1% which happens most of the time in the UK .

How do you know I am obsessed with independence? You do realise I am putting on a character here on Gagadaily. I let people know my political views here on Gagadaily. I am different mainly in real life. This website is a specter of my life.

[bionic 50,111]

I hope the SNP use their new political power in Westminster for working towards transforming the entire UK into a strong, equal country they wish an independent Scotland to be.