Benji 20,113 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I love Sheezus, it's quite different from Lily's sound on her previous two albums but I love it! Lily didn't need to apologise about the album because to me it's good Gaga well, she should never feel the need to apologise for not selling so many copies blah blah blah and she probably will never apologise for anything unless it offends her fans (even then the brain dead sheep will still follow). Secretly she knows ARTPOP isn't very good, it isn't what she wanted to make and she's insecure about it hence feeling the need to scream how only her "true fans" understand ARTPOP when actually she doesn't understand ARTPOP, it's meaning went from "it's a fun, party album" when she was promoting it, then when the sales didn't come in it suddenly becomes a massive artistic piece that a lot of people "wouldn't get" Bitch, it's a fun party album but don't crack it up to be something it's not, especially when you're backtracking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celina 118 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I love Sheezus, it's quite different from Lily's sound on her previous two albums but I love it! Lily didn't need to apologise about the album because to me it's good Gaga well, she should never feel the need to apologise for not selling so many copies blah blah blah and she probably will never apologise for anything unless it offends her fans (even then the brain dead sheep will still follow). Secretly she knows ARTPOP isn't very good, it isn't what she wanted to make and she's insecure about it hence feeling the need to scream how only her "true fans" understand ARTPOP when actually she doesn't understand ARTPOP, it's meaning went from "it's a fun, party album" when she was promoting it, then when the sales didn't come in it suddenly becomes a massive artistic piece that a lot of people "wouldn't get" Bitch, it's a fun party album but don't crack it up to be something it's not, especially when you're backtracking! A lot of people did miss the point of what she's been trying to do though (hence all the comments about it not being experimental and therefore lacking art) + she never meant for the "fun" factor in the music to be a contradiction of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A lot of people did miss the point of what she's been trying to do though (hence all the comments about it not being experimental and therefore lacking art) + she never meant for the "fun" factor in the music to be a contradiction of that. I don't think they have though. I think fans knew what she was trying to achieve, bringing art into pop culture through performance pieces and outfits (like she's done previously) however due to reasons out of her control, she wasn't able to do this to the effect she wanted to. ARTPOP is pretty basic, I like it but the music was supposed to be the foundation of her statement and was supposed to be built on with visionary performances (See Applause's original VMA concept, Venus' promotional images etc) but she hasn't been able to. You could argue that people outside of the fanbase did miss the point, but that's mainly because there hasn't been a visible point to miss really? Although sales don't reflect the quality of the music, it does show that she didn't nail the promotion of the album or showing the public her message but like I said, it hasn't been her fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celina 118 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't think they have though. I think fans knew what she was trying to achieve, bringing art into pop culture through performance pieces and outfits (like she's done previously) however due to reasons out of her control, she wasn't able to do this to the effect she wanted to. ARTPOP is pretty basic, I like it but the music was supposed to be the foundation of her statement and was supposed to be built on with visionary performances (See Applause's original VMA concept, Venus' promotional images etc) but she hasn't been able to. You could argue that people outside of the fanbase did miss the point, but that's mainly because there hasn't been a visible point to miss really? Although sales don't reflect the quality of the music, it does show that she didn't nail the promotion of the album or showing the public her message but like I said, it hasn't been her fault. I've seen fans misinterpret her intentions, so I do think she's still entitled to say that people didn't "get" it. Yes, it might have been easier to understand without some of the changed plans you mentioned and the disorganization, but like you said, it wasn't entirely in her hands, and I think the point is still visible. Maybe not to the public, though. I see what you mean more clearly with this post, though. What I mainly disagreed with before was the notion that the album/era couldn't be both fun and artistic, that her speaking about one of those sides somehow negated the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've seen fans misinterpret her intentions, so I do think she's still entitled to say that people didn't "get" it. Yes, it might have been easier to understand without some of the changed plans you mentioned and the disorganization, but like you said, it wasn't entirely in her hands, and I think the point is still visible. Maybe not to the public, though. I see what you mean more clearly with this post, though. What I mainly disagreed with before was the notion that the album/era couldn't be both fun and artistic, that her speaking about one of those sides somehow negated the other. I'm just giving a lot the benefit of the doubt because this era has been so up and down it would be pretty easy to misinterpret her vision. She has been fairly consistent with explaining the album but a part of me feels she felt the need to really make it sound more artistic as the era started to decline to almost excuse it's lack of expected performance (not that it should matter at all!) and I think in doing that, she also added to throwing the album a little under the bus. Oh no she could achieve both, I just believe (judging from how she's spoke about the album throughout the era (especially the start)) that the album on it's own is most definitely a fun POP album but she's taking it and using it to create ART! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropico 4,145 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Another thread to thread to raise another artost while puting down Gaga. *sigh* I think it's quite obvious Gaga was mismanaged this era. She loved the album and put her heaer and soul into it and if her management was better it could have been an excellent era. Lily clearly didn't like the music to begin with. ♢ Social Justice Enthusiast ♢ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memo 176 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I thought it was very mature of Lily. It showed an eagerness to want to learn from her own mistakes that she personally saw. Now I wouldn't want someone to apologize over commercial success or lack there of, and I don't think it's a good logical connection that quality and commercial success always go hand in hand, but if you feel you personally didn't give something your all or your best, it shows a lot about your character if you're willing to admit that. Now I don't know how this would work with Gaga, none of us do. If she truly feels ARTPOP was her best effort for that album, then she has nothing to apologize for. :worship: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djBuffoon 12,120 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't believe an artist should apologize for their work, especially not if they truly put their all into it, like I fully believe Gaga does. I cringed when Joel Schumacher apologized for Batman & Robin, and I HATE that movie. I saw a Broadway production of "Hedda Gabler", a classic play, several years ago starring Mary-Louise Parker. The critics ripped it apart, and rightfully so, it was a terrible production. But throughout all of the negative press, the creative team and actors stood by their interpretation and never apologized for it. I think that's more admirable than buckling under the weight of negativity and taking back what you achieved. The thing is, no piece of art is "perfect" and that includes albums. There can always be improvements. Gaga seems to be very proud of ARTPOP, and she has every right to be. It's one of my favorite pop albums in recent years, clearly there are more fans who loved it than who didn't, and I will be very disappointed if she ever cops out on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giskardsb 12,565 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 It's interesting that you are implying Gaga is immature for not taking "blame" for ARTPOP not being what you apparently think it should have been. It's not immature to maintain your artistic integrity. If her only goal was pop hits and superhigh success, maybe she would apologize. But not simply if work she believed in "underperformed", especially when it was still one if the most successful albums of the year. Also we don't know the whole story behind anything. It's impossible to know what the "mature" response might have been. Maybe the most mature thing was getting rid of people that stifled her or wanted to work her to death. Maybe the most mature thing was balancing out her life, and realizing she needs a life outside of music too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VforVendetta 2,024 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 First of all why should Gaga do something like that if she doesn't feel like it? How do you know Gaga's true opinion about ARTPOP? You forget that Gaga has said herself that for example she didn't like the Telephone video anymore and that she thinks she overdid it, regrdless of the big success of the song. Why it never passes from your mind that maybe your opinion about ARTPOP isn't only true one. After all even if I admire Alen's bravery and honesty, I think it's always a bad thing for as artist to say that a work of his isn't that goog. (a work that isn't dragged for it's quality to the depths at least). It affects negatively everyone, the public and the critics and it completely dooms the album + it insults fans that like the work. So it creates a lot of damage for no reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VforVendetta 2,024 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I love Sheezus, it's quite different from Lily's sound on her previous two albums but I love it! Lily didn't need to apologise about the album because to me it's good Gaga well, she should never feel the need to apologise for not selling so many copies blah blah blah and she probably will never apologise for anything unless it offends her fans (even then the brain dead sheep will still follow). Secretly she knows ARTPOP isn't very good, it isn't what she wanted to make and she's insecure about it hence feeling the need to scream how only her "true fans" understand ARTPOP when actually she doesn't understand ARTPOP, it's meaning went from "it's a fun, party album" when she was promoting it, then when the sales didn't come in it suddenly becomes a massive artistic piece that a lot of people "wouldn't get" Bitch, it's a fun party album but don't crack it up to be something it's not, especially when you're backtracking! I don't think that ARTPOP is a party album though. I don't think that the album is actually only one thing and I have no problem with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceAce 1,058 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 :roll: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't think that ARTPOP is a party album though. I don't think that the album is actually only one thing and I have no problem with it. Well that was the original intention of the album, she said it herself but good for you for finding your own meaning! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rome 176 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well, this is why everyone loves Lily. Pretty much the most care-free person in pop music. Makes statements. Makes fun music too. Hopefully she does make an even better album soon As for Gaga, I think she really believes in ARTPOP still. I also believe she thinks the album did fine, and her/her team just messed up the release of the singles. Which is mostly true. Maybe the next cycle will be better. We have been saying the same to ourselves since BTW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djBuffoon 12,120 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Also we don't know the whole story behind anything. It's impossible to know what the "mature" response might have been. Maybe the most mature thing was getting rid of people that stifled her or wanted to work her to death. Maybe the most mature thing was balancing out her life, and realizing she needs a life outside of music too. :tea: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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