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Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

lego

You're doing it again, and proving my point. :roll:

 

Let's review what happened:

 

Someone posts an article about a Palestinian attack on Israelis today. You respond mentioning a barely related attack from 20 years ago on Palestinians by Israelis. I call you out for being disrespectful and trying to maneuver the situation into a pro-Palestinian argument of "who started it". You imply I (or the media) are trying to portray all Palestinians as wild savages because there was coverage (or even mention) of a quadruple homicide. 

 

Do you see the problem with doing that, while you constantly complain about the media being biased in favour of Israel? You couldn't make a single comment without trying to gain sympathy for Palestinians, because you are also incredibly biased. You clearly aren't prepared to admit that both sides have blood on their hands, which shows how little you understand this conflict.

 

You told me a couple months ago I was a reasonable person to argue with on this topic, which I took as a great compliment. I have not changed, and neither has my opinion of this conflict or you. Try being reasonable and solution oriented. You might get through to more people, and rub less of us the wrong way. 

 

Let me reiterate, I am not on one side of this conflict. I am "team solution and discussion". I do not claim to be perfect or know everything about this topic. I do have a major issue with the way you use this forum as your personal pro-palestinian blog, however.

 

 

It's not someone. It's Dolev. And my post was reply to him and his comment.

 

And attack from 20 years ago is not barely related. You said you always read ''both sides'' as well, well check these then 

 

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/hebron-still-under-siege-20-years-after-ibrahimi-mosque-massacre

 

 

 

This set the pattern: instead of cracking down on the settlers, Israel escalated its persecution of Palestinians, especially in Hebron, gradually allowing the settlers to take over more of the city.

The Ibrahimi Mosque was forcibly partitioned with settlers being given most of the space – a precedent many Palestinians fear the Israeli occupation will one day try to repeat at Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa Mosque.

In 1997, settlers were rewarded even further for Goldstein’s massacre when the Palestinian Authority agreed to allow the occupation to partition Hebron itself into two zones: “H1†and “H2.â€

H1 is nominally administered by the Palestinian Authority and is home to more than 120,000 Palestinians.

H2, under full Israeli military rule, includes Hebron’s historic Old City as well as the Ibrahimi Mosque.

Israeli occupation forces severely restrict the movement of more than 30,000 Palestinians in H2 while Israeli settlers move about freely under army protection.

Since then, settlers have aggressively seized Palestinian properties in the Old City, leaving much of the city center a ghost town.

 

.....

 

 

Exactly 20 years later, the Israeli army stormed al-Aqsa Mosque, the third holiest Muslim site, and opened fire. The timing was no accident.

 

Ariel Sharon chose that exact place to carry out his proactive ‘tour’ of al-Aqsa compound in 2000. Many unarmed Palestinians, mostly worshipers, died on that day. Thousands more were lost in the following months and years as the entirety of the occupied territories and Palestinian towns inside Israel exploded with unprecedented fury. Sharon was later elected Prime Minister of Israel.

That same dangerous combination – rightwing politicians allied with religious zealots – is at work once more. They are eyeing Al-Aqsa for annexation, the same way the Israeli government is laboring to permanently annex large swathes of the occupied West Bank, to preclude any future settlement with the Palestinian Authority of Mahmoud Abbas.

The Israeli Knesset (Parliament) chose the 20th anniversary of the Goldstein massacre of Palestinians in al-Khalil to begin a debate concerning the status of Al-Aqsa compound. Right-wingers – which constitute the bulk in the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – want the Israeli government to enforce its ‘sovereignty’ over the Muslim site, which is administered by Jordan per the Jordanian-Israeli peace treaty of 1994. Israeli MP Moshe Feiglin, is the man behind the move, but he is not alone. Feiglin is a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party, and has strong backing within the party, the government and the Knesset.

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/03/13/Al-Aqsa-vs-Israel-The-lurking-danger-beneath.html

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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lego

Stop this stupid washbrain, we both knows that the media doesn't show what's really goin on with this conflict.

please lock this topic because people in here trying with wrong thoughts and I can prove you in 10000 info that I have but I won't do it just like anybody else in israel doesn't show becuase we're stupid becuase israeli people don't know how to explain the situation like the palestinans do.

delete this topic no politics in here! please lock this topic people in here don't know the truth and they'll never know what is it.

I'm just gonna put it in here... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4593099,00.html

and lock this topic!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiO0iqZss04

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNWq8mvmU3k

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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Noam Zioni

So now you're telling me what I meant to say? :lmao:

by the way, stop flooding every single comment with 1325265 articles to prove your point. It's getting boring here going through all this bull****.

Twisting your words, my words, or twisting the reality became so typical of her..

Hamas is asking from Arabs who live in Jerusalem to take any weapon they have, including cars and bulldozers, to go out to the streets and kill Israeli Jewish people. And some of the people here think that Israel has problem with peace :smh:

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lego

So now you're telling me what I meant to say? 

 

by the way, stop flooding every single comment with 1325265 articles to prove your point. It's getting boring here going through all this bull****.

 

 

Your rhetorics is same as Netanyahu's. And you should say thank you, since these articles from history serve as education for you and your ignorant statements.

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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EXCXSXE

It's not someone. It's Dolev. And my post was reply to him and his comment.

 

And attack from 20 years ago is not barely related. You said you always read ''both sides'' as well, well check these then 

 

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/hebron-still-under-siege-20-years-after-ibrahimi-mosque-massacre

 

 

.....

 

 

Exactly 20 years later, the Israeli army stormed al-Aqsa Mosque, the third holiest Muslim site, and opened fire. The timing was no accident.

 

Ariel Sharon chose that exact place to carry out his proactive ‘tour’ of al-Aqsa compound in 2000. Many unarmed Palestinians, mostly worshipers, died on that day. Thousands more were lost in the following months and years as the entirety of the occupied territories and Palestinian towns inside Israel exploded with unprecedented fury. Sharon was later elected Prime Minister of Israel.

That same dangerous combination – rightwing politicians allied with religious zealots – is at work once more. They are eyeing Al-Aqsa for annexation, the same way the Israeli government is laboring to permanently annex large swathes of the occupied West Bank, to preclude any future settlement with the Palestinian Authority of Mahmoud Abbas.

The Israeli Knesset (Parliament) chose the 20th anniversary of the Goldstein massacre of Palestinians in al-Khalil to begin a debate concerning the status of Al-Aqsa compound. Right-wingers – which constitute the bulk in the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – want the Israeli government to enforce its ‘sovereignty’ over the Muslim site, which is administered by Jordan per the Jordanian-Israeli peace treaty of 1994. Israeli MP Moshe Feiglin, is the man behind the move, but he is not alone. Feiglin is a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party, and has strong backing within the party, the government and the Knesset.

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/03/13/Al-Aqsa-vs-Israel-The-lurking-danger-beneath.html

 

A. Dolev is someone

B. You need to learn how to condense your posts into what is truly important (and then explain your opinion in your own words)

C. That is pure speculation that they are planning on annexing Al-Aqsa, and I frankly don't believe they'd do that. Imagine the repercussions... It just wouldn't happen.  :shrug:

D. "Electronicintifada" wrote that Goldstein is a hero, and we already discussed today that this is simply not true... Come on! 

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lego

What is with these photoshopped images from CNN?

I see this

rUfapPb.png

tgsufnu.png
 

:huh:

 

 

A. Dolev is someone
B. You need to learn how to condense your posts into what is truly important (and then explain your opinion in your own words)
C. That is pure speculation that they are planning on annexing Al-Aqsa, and I frankly don't believe they'd do that. Imagine the repercussions... It just wouldn't happen.  :shrug:
D. "Electronicintifada" wrote that Goldstein is a hero, and we already discussed today that this is simply not true... Come on!

 

Yeah, someone whose comment I found ridiculous and my post was answer to that.

 

I already quoted important parts, but I do think it's important to read articles as whole, it's not that hard. I have to reply to 10 people same time, forgive me for using shortcuts.

 

For you it's speculation, but for Palestinians it seems as very possible scenario as they did the same in Hebron, plus the voices of extremists are very loud, many of them are from Likud party, and they're often coming there to provoke the worshipers with army backup.

 

Goldstein is not a hero to ALL Israelis, but he is still to some. How big they are in number I don't know, but they still do visit his grave.

I also believe the same people who praise him, from the Jewish settlers, are the same ones who are throwing garbage and stones at Palestinians on a daily basis, who are attacking them with baseball bats, burn their olive trees and other property, who are running over their children and other civilians by cars.

They also must have strong connection to government and police/army, since Israeli state fails to probe over 80%  of settler violence cases.

 

Human rights organization Yesh Din published statistics today based on its monitoring of 1,045 files opened by the various units of the Samaria & Judea (SJ) District Police following complaints filed by Palestinians with Yesh Din’s assistance. According to this data, in 2005-2014, a mere 7.4 percent of investigation files led to indictments of Israeli civilians suspected of attacking Palestinians and their property

.....

The figures show that of the 106 police investigation files opened and concluded during the past two years, 89.6 percent were closed because of investigative failure.

http://www.yesh-din.org/postview.asp?postid=284

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_policy

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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EXCXSXE

Yeah, someone whose comment I found ridiculous and my post was answer to that.

 

I already quoted important parts, but I do think it's important to read articles as whole, it's not that hard. I have to reply to 10 people same time, forgive me for using shortcuts.

 

For you it's speculation, but for Palestinians it seems as very possible scenario as they did the same in Hebron, plus the voices of extremists are very loud, many of them are from Likud party, and they're often coming there to provoke the worshipers with army backup.

 

Goldstein is not a hero to ALL Israelis, but he is still to some. How big they are in number I don't know, but they still do visit his grave.

I also believe the same people who praise him, from the Jewish settlers, are the same ones who are throwing garbage and stones at Palestinians on a daily basis, who are attacking them with baseball bats, burn their olive trees and other property, who are running over their children and other civilians by cars.

They also must have strong connection to government and police/army, since Israeli state fails to probe over 80%  of settler violence cases.

 

http://www.yesh-din.org/postview.asp?postid=284

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_policy

 

At least the government is investigating and charging some people and investigating... Hamas is openly encouraging their people to commit crimes?  :shrug:

I'm glad you acknowledged that there is a small minority of extremists. 

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EXCXSXE

Israel blows up home of Palestinian who rammed car at Jerusalem tram stop

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-mideast-palestinians-israel-idUSKCN0J30GN20141119?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

 

"Israel's army has blown up or demolished militants' homes for decades but stopped the practice in 2005, saying it was counterproductive in their effort to discourage attacks. Court-sanctioned demolitions resumed earlier this year."

 

Also, the death toll from yesterdays attack has risen to 7. 

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River

Israel blows up home of Palestinian who rammed car at Jerusalem tram stop

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-mideast-palestinians-israel-idUSKCN0J30GN20141119?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

 

"Israel's army has blown up or demolished militants' homes for decades but stopped the practice in 2005, saying it was counterproductive in their effort to discourage attacks. Court-sanctioned demolitions resumed earlier this year."

 

Also, the death toll from yesterdays attack has risen to 7. 

 

7???

oh wait, I checked now, it's 5 Israelis and 2 killers..

I'd rather be dead but I guess I'm alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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River

rUfapPb.png

tgsufnu.png

 

:huh:

 

CNN first news were that 2 Palestinians were killed by a police man in a mosque.. and after few hours they discovered that 4 of the victims were Americans (they did Aliya), so they changed the headline to what you see now..

I'd rather be dead but I guess I'm alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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EXCXSXE

CNN first news were that 2 Palestinians were killed by a police man in a mosque.. and after few hours they discovered that 4 of the victims were Americans (they did Aliya), so they changed the headline to what you see now..

 

Is this serious? I didn't want to believe it...  :wtf: How are they possibly getting away with that? 

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lego

At least the government is investigating and charging some people and investigating... Hamas is openly encouraging their people to commit crimes?  :shrug:

I'm glad you acknowledged that there is a small minority of extremists.

 

 

At least?!  Charging some people? Do you realize that you're more shocked by CNN mistake and you aren't asking how is Israeli government getting away with impunity to Jewish criminals?

How can you compare them to Hamas, when Palestine doesn't even have a proper state? Is Hamas ruling over a country or occupying territories with Jewish and Muslim population and is giving impunity to the latter? I don't think so. And ''openly encouraging to commit crimes'' is not much different from ''We are in a battle for Jerusalem, our eternal capital.'' -(Netanyahu, yesterday) - 'Cause that is how you're NOT fueling the fire. /sarcasm

Do you know that Israeli army can literally (and they do it all the time) kidnap Palestinians from Occupied territories and keep them in prison for years without a trial? Or they just find the alleged suspect and kill him on the spot without any chance for a fair trial, how would you feel if you were Palestinian?

 

Do you realize how disrespectful it is to victims of Jewish settlers' violence to say ''oh well, at least they investigate'', the files ''getting lost'', and cases getting closed without charging the assailants and killers are far too common and that is outrageous for a state claiming to live by democracy and has equality for all citizens.

 

And no, I said I don't know the number of those who worship Goldstein but I consider extremist all those who are chanting ''Death to Arabs'' and who supported massacre in Gaza. And the extremists are in power in that country.

 

Israel blows up home of Palestinian who rammed car at Jerusalem tram stop

 

That will surely calm the situation down and stop the violence. :roll:  Why didn't they search his lineage and blow up some of his ancestors' graves too?

I'm wondering did any Jewish terrorist get his house blown up and his family arrested, ever? What happened to Goldstein's home and his family members? Are they homeless or punished in any way, or are they enjoying benefits from the government?

 

And they didn't destroy a house, but they blew up a flat in a building complex. Cause neighbours should suffer too!

B2yuLQHCYAApaD5.jpg

B2ydIe5IEAA4f2r.jpgB2ydImuIgAAITek.jpg

 

 

 

I can see it already in future "Palestinian attacker's son, who grew up homeless after Israel demolished house in collective punishment, now loves Israel".

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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lego

Shin Bet chief contradicts Abbas 'incitement' accusations, points finger at Abu Khdeir murder

 

Yoram-Cohen.jpg

 

The head of Israel's security service Shin Bet, Yoram Cohen, has directly contradicted accusations by PM Netanyahu and other ministers regarding the role of Mahmoud Abbas in so-called 'incitement'.
Cohen made the remarks at a meeting of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee yesterday, a discussion that took place hours after a deadly attack on a synagogue in Jerusalem.
"Abu Mazen [Abbas] is not interested in terror and is not leading [his people] to terror. Nor is he doing so 'under the table'", Cohen said.
According to Israeli newspaper Haaretz, the senior official also told MKs that it was the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammad Abu Khdeir in July which was "a decisive event in advance of the outbreak of major clashes in East Jerusalem in recent months."
Cohen added that confrontations focused on al-Aqsa mosque compound, "including the ascent to that holy site by MKs, as well as proposed legislation that would change the status quo in the compound", only "exacerbated the reactions in East Jerusalem neighbourhoods."
The Shin Bet chief also urged public figures to desist from entering the compound at this time, due to the "very dangerous and explosive" religious dimension of the conflict: "We have to do everything possible to instill calm", he said.
 

 

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/15351-shin-bet-chief-contradicts-abbas-incitement-accusations-points-finger-at-abu-khdeir-murder

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.627173

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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EXCXSXE

 

 

At least?!  Charging some people? Do you realize that you're more shocked by CNN mistake and you aren't asking how is Israeli government getting away with impunity to Jewish criminals?

How can you compare them to Hamas, when Palestine doesn't even have a proper state? Is Hamas ruling over a country or occupying territories with Jewish and Muslim population and is giving impunity to the latter? I don't think so. And ''openly encouraging to commit crimes'' is not much different from ''We are in a battle for Jerusalem, our eternal capital.'' -(Netanyahu, yesterday) - 'Cause that is how you're NOT fueling the fire. /sarcasm

Do you know that Israeli army can literally (and they do it all the time) kidnap Palestinians from Occupied territories and keep them in prison for years without a trial? Or they just find the alleged suspect and kill him on the spot without any chance for a fair trial, how would you feel if you were Palestinian?

 

Do you realize how disrespectful it is to victims of Jewish settlers' violence to say ''oh well, at least they investigate'', the files ''getting lost'', and cases getting closed without charging the assailants and killers are far too common and that is outrageous for a state claiming to live by democracy and has equality for all citizens.

 

And no, I said I don't know the number of those who worship Goldstein but I consider extremist all those who are chanting ''Death to Arabs'' and who supported massacre in Gaza. And the extremists are in power in that country.

 

 

That will surely calm the situation down and stop the violence. :roll:  Why didn't they search his lineage and blow up some of his ancestors' graves too?

I'm wondering did any Jewish terrorist get his house blown up and his family arrested, ever? What happened to Goldstein's home and his family members? Are they homeless or punished in any way, or are they enjoying benefits from the government?

 

And they didn't destroy a house, but they blew up a flat in a building complex. Cause neighbours should suffer too

 

 

 

I can see it already in future "Palestinian attacker's son, who grew up homeless after Israel demolished house in collective punishment, now loves Israel".

 

I think you misinterpreted my post. I didn't mean to say that the lack of punishment is acceptable for hate crimes, but those rates are probably not that far off of what happens everyone else in the world, albeit the hate crimes there are far worse and of a very different type. My point was rather that Hamas praised the attack of innocents in a synagogue the other day, calling it divine justice, while the Israeli government condemns attacks committed by Israeli terrorists time and time again. When you're constantly talking about incitement, you have to consider that Hamas is radicalizing its civilians openly. The violence is unacceptable in both cases, but you have to admit there's a massive issue with Hamas praising its civilians who glorify terrorists. That is just as bad as those who believe Goldstein is a hero. 

 

You can't label everyone who supports the Gaza war as an extremist... You should review the definition of that word. 

 

If destroying their homes is in accord with international law, I see no reason why they can't do it. It's a way to deter the terrorist attacks. The perpetrators know they're putting their families at risk and choose to do it anyway; its a choice they make. It's very difficult to reason with people who are willing to commit suicide while killing as many civilians as possible, in case you didn't realize. It's a sad situation in any case. When the neighbours are suffering as well, however, I think it loses its proportionality and it shouldn't be done. 

 

That is a valid point about Goldsteins family members.  :yes: That does not seem right, but there are far fewer incidents involving Israeli terrorist attacks than Palestinian terror attacks. There's no reason for Israel to demolish houses other than to deter attacks; I don't think it's about "an eye for an eye".

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