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Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

brizoda

Spanish Parliament To Call For Recognition Of Palestinian State

 

 

MADRID, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Spanish lawmakers were set to vote on Tuesday in favor of their government recognizing Palestine as a state in a symbolic move intended to promote peace between the Palestinians and Israel but which has angered the Jewish state.

The debate in Madrid comes on a day when two Palestinians armed with a meat cleaver and a gun burst into a Jerusalem synagogue and killed four Jews at prayer before being shot dead.

 

The non-binding motion, brought forward by the opposition Socialists but expected to be backed by the ruling People's Party (PP) and other groups in the lower house of parliament, echoes similar votes in Britain and Ireland last month.

France is also eyeing such a non-binding resolution soon after Sweden's center-left government took the lead by officially recognizing the state of Palestine within days of taking office last month.

The moves reflect mounting frustration in the European Union at Israel's expanding settlement program on land the Palestinians want for a state following the collapse of U.S.-sponsored peace talks.

The EU's new foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, said the bloc's 28 foreign ministers discussed at a meeting in Brussels on Monday how they could start "a positive process with the Israelis and Palestinians to relaunch a peace process."

The Spanish motion, prepared by former Foreign Minister Trinidad Jimenez, "urges" the government to recognize Palestine as a state and to promote such recognition within the EU, according to a draft obtained by Reuters.

The PP group would like to tone this down to "encourages" in negotiations on the text ahead of the vote, due around 1800 GMT.

TIME RUNNING OUT

While the initiative does not significantly shift Spain's Middle East policy, Madrid is hoping to inject momentum in the search for a two-state Israeli-Palestinian solution.

"We have the feeling that time is running out," Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo told reporters in Brussels. "Either we do something fairly quickly or the two-state solution will be physically impossible."

The Israeli government dismissed the move however, saying it came at the worst possible moment on the day of the deadliest incident in Jerusalem for six years.

"Nothing can be gained from unilateral moves such as the one being made by the Spanish parliament today and it distances us from negotiations with the Palestinians," said Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon.

"We call on Spain not to make unilateral moves, particularly on a shocking day like today."

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy condemned the attack.

"The Spanish government and all the Spanish people are deeply moved and united with Israel and its citizens in this moment of intense pain and indignation," he said in a telegram sent to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. (Additional reporting by Raquel Castillo in Madrid and Ori Lewis in Jerusalem; Editing by Paul Taylor)

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/18/spanish-parliament-palestinian-state_n_6177574.html?utm_hp_ref=world

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Noam Zioni

****ing bastards. Those people are vile & barbaric, there's no chance for peace as long as radical Islam is around.

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I woke up to these news today

It's really horrible, and scary to those who live in Jerusalem, almost everyday there's a new attack in for the past 3 months

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lego

Age restriction is setted for preventing eager young people from coming into the Temple Mount to provoke and go wild, and it exsits because it happend before. You're ignorant because you don't know Jews are not allowed to go up the Temple Mount many hours a day while all muslims are free to do so.

You're just obsessed.

This is just bull**** and you know it.

The Israeli government occasionally prevents certain groups of Muslims from reaching al-Aqsa; the restrictions vary from time to time. At times restrictions have prevented all men under 50 and women under 45 from entering, but married men over 45 are allowed. Sometimes the restrictions are enforced on the occasion of Friday prayers,[78] other times they are over an extended period of time.[78][79][80] Restrictions are most severe for Gazans, followed by restrictions on those from West Bank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque#Access

What does being married have to do with "provocations"? And who would they provoke if Jews are not allowed? Yes I know, it's in Torah Hebrew_domeEntrance_sign.jpg

but extremist Jewish settlers don't care about that. They go there to provoke Muslim worshippers with the police backup. They openly call for destruction of Al Aqsa and rebuilding the third temple. There were planned attacks on the mosque. When did they get age and gender restrictions because of clashes which THEY caused? Never.

****ing bastards. Those people are vile & barbaric, there's no chance for peace as long as radical Islam is around.

Horrible news. So sad for the families.

This reminds me of Hebron massacre in Ibrahimi mosque in '94. Baruch Goldstein killed 29 people with assault rifle, and injured 125. The images from the scene are similar.

267476.jpg

He was praised as a hero and his grave became pilgrimage site. Later Israeli state dismantled the shrine. The tombstone and its epitaph, calling Goldstein a martyr with clean hands and a pure heart, was left untouched.

It's interesting that first suicide bomb attack was a RETALIATION to that.

Anyway, your comment is ridiculous. Trying to ride on global "war on radical islam", for world support, saying "they" (meaning Palestinians) don't want peace, when it's clear that Israel doesn't want peace.

This is the result of decades of occupation, Israeli violence and impunity for Israeli killers of Palestinian civilians and children.

No matter religion, no any nation would just sit and let slow extermination. The killings of Palestinians are not even reported by Western media.

This was retaliation to attacks on Al Aqsa mosque and killing of Palestinian bus driver, father of 2 small boys, who had no reason to kill himself, but police was quick to dismiss it as suicide before autopsy. He had bruises on his body. And is this also accident? I think not.

B2tuFoWCEAEJG43.jpg

I don't support eye for an eye, and attacks on civilians but this is was obviously revenge by people who might as well be secular ( so many of them are) and has nothing to do with "radical Islam". And of course, Israelis are calling for another revenge, soon the innocent Gazans will pay again the price. It's never ending circle of violence.

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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lego

I don't think it's messy :shrug: As far I know, even Israel (in theory anyway) agrees to a two state solution. That will involve recognition of both Israel and Palestine and if anything it's those countries (the ones in the process of recognising Palestine or coming somewhat closer to it) that are actually aware of what they're doing :shrug:

I don't think they're intersted in two state solution. That would mean removing the illegal settlements, they just recently approved 1000 more.

Anyway, Irish people are amazing. There is always great ammount of support and solidarity with Palestine from Ireland.

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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River

He was praised as a hero and his grave became pilgrimage site. Later Israeli state dismantled the shrine. The tombstone and its epitaph, calling Goldstein a martyr with clean hands and a pure heart, was left untouched.

It's interesting that first suicide bomb attack was a RETALIATION to that.

 

 

It was a group of extreme right (Kahana Zadak which is illegal party in israel) who called him a martyr, and one rabbi that said that he's a saint, was fired from any social service..

Goldstein is really a shame for the majority of the israelis..

Only the psychotic ones really worshiping him..

 

Anyway, the topic became too extreme for me, I feel like the argument became "who kills more" and "who's murder is right".. and no one care about innocent people.. I'm tired of "it's sad and I feel sorry" , somehow I find it hard to believe that you don't smile when someone from the "enemy" side is dying.. (and I'm talking to both sides now.), too much hate here, which is not the solution anymore.

I'd rather be dead but I guess I'm alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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lego

It was a group of extreme right (Kahana Zadak which is illegal party in israel) who called him a martyr, and one rabbi that said that he's a saint, was fired from any social service..

Goldstein is really a shame for the majority of the israelis..

Only the psychotic ones really worshiping him..

 

Anyway, the topic became too extreme for me, I feel like the argument became "who kills more" and "who's murder is right".. and no one care about innocent people.. I'm tired of "it's sad and I feel sorry" , somehow I find it hard to believe that you don't smile when someone from the "enemy" side is dying.. (and I'm talking to both sides now.), too much hate here, which is not the solution anymore.

You should post more, I like reading your posts even if I don't agree on everything. As for me, I am never smiling to these kind of attacks against civilians on any side. I believe it also tarnishes Palestinian cause. I just find unfair worldwide reporting on these things and ignoring the context. The extremists or lunatics exist on both side, but the key to stop all this is in Israeli state's hands. They have the "upper hand".

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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EXCXSXE

It was a group of extreme right (Kahana Zadak which is illegal party in israel) who called him a martyr, and one rabbi that said that he's a saint, was fired from any social service..

Goldstein is really a shame for the majority of the israelis..

Only the psychotic ones really worshiping him..

 

Anyway, the topic became too extreme for me, I feel like the argument became "who kills more" and "who's murder is right".. and no one care about innocent people.. I'm tired of "it's sad and I feel sorry" , somehow I find it hard to believe that you don't smile when someone from the "enemy" side is dying.. (and I'm talking to both sides now.), too much hate here, which is not the solution anymore.

 

:worship: SO WELL PUT. 

 

@Lego, did you seriously mention a massacre from 20 years ago?   :roll: Cheap shot, and an inappropriate response to this event. Just as bad as the Israelis who use the Holocaust... 

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

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lego

joshmitnick

@joshmitnick

Haaretz: Shin Bet Chief says Jerusalem synagogue attackers had no history of involvement with militant groups in anyway.

More repression, which is what the Israeli leadership is calling for & doing, will not make lone-wolf attacks less likely, to the contrary

Elizabeth Tsurkov @Elizrael

9h

When ppl are oppressed and angry, some will resort to violence even when they know they'll succeed in killing only few people w/ knives/cars

Elizabeth Tsurkov @Elizrael

9h

And the terrorism infrastructure required for a an intifada like the 2nd one simply does not exist anymore in the West Bank.

Elizabeth Tsurkov @Elizrael

9h

I don't think we're about to witness anything similar to the 1st or 2nd intifada. There's no momentum for mass mobilization like in the 1st

.....

Elizabeth Tsurkov

@Elizrael

Jewish supremacists (Kach + Lehava) are organizing a protest/riot in Jerusalem at 19:00 tonight on.fb.me/1yhjFuU

Elizabeth Tsurkov

@Elizrael

Israeli racists are planning a march today to Jabal Mukabar, home of the 2 synagogue attackers on.fb.me/11nYBHV v

@WarrenBurstein

Anshel Pfeffer

@AnshelPfeffer

In direct contradiction to Netanyahu & ministers, Shin Bet Chief says to MKs that Abbas is not encouraging the recent wave of terror attacks

https://mobile.twitter.com/Elizrael/tweets

joshmitnick

@joshmitnick

Updating: Netanyahu calls 1930 press conference after Jerusalem synagogue attack, vows home demolitions

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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River

You should post more, I like reading your posts even if I don't agree on everything. As for me, I am never smiling to these kind of attacks against civilians on any side. I believe it also tarnishes Palestinian cause. I just find unfair worldwide reporting on these things and ignoring the context. The extremists or lunatics exist on both side, but the key to stop all this is in Israeli state's hands. They have the "upper hand".

 

First, thank you, I'm always trying to see the the reality from both sides point of view.

 

Sure, Israel is the one who needs to make the first move, but let's be honest, I know that my Israeli friends here will be angry, but, Bibi, Benet and Zipi are not the people who will do the move, all they care is politics and their chairs at the government, that's why they always speaks but doing zero action, and when the things get out of control they start a little war to prove to their citizens that "ISRAEL IS STRONG" and it ends eventually with the same reality as it was before.

 

But I think it's time to the Palestinians to understand the violence is not the key to get what you want, so 4 jewish are death, and? what's next? do you think you'll get a prize? no, not at all, it's not working this way anymore.

Even when you are angry, you live in the s-hit, you still need to fight in the diplomatic area, and to keep you hands in the pocket.

It will teach them to kill to get what they want, it's not how you educate a community, and it's a key for a new mess.

 

I feel this conflict is like when 2 man are enemies and they are killing each other at the same time and the families trying to find who is guilty, when both are guilty.

No one can say anymore that one side is innocent..

 

I have a question for you, if, big IF, one day (with the right government) Israel will recognize Palestine, will give lands back and everything and  Palestine will finally be a country, but one day after it will open a war against Israel, what do you think will be your opinion? - it's a scenario that can happen, and I want you to think about it, but let's hope it will not happen.

I'd rather be dead but I guess I'm alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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lego

:worship: SO WELL PUT. 

 

@Lego, did you seriously mention a massacre from 20 years ago?  :roll: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Yes, that's not too long ago. Does the murder get old? It still has impact and what followed that event, the reaction of Israeli forces on Palestinians in Hebron. Also the followers of Kahane are still live and well in Israel.

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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lego

First, thank you, I'm always trying to see the the reality from both sides point of view.

 

Sure, Israel is the one who needs to make the first move, but let's be honest, I know that my Israeli friends here will be angry, but, Bibi, Benet and Zipi are not the people who will do the move, all they care is politics and their chairs at the government, that's why they always speaks but doing zero action, and when the things get out of control they start a little war to prove to their citizens that "ISRAEL IS STRONG" and it ends eventually with the same reality as it was before.

 

But I think it's time to the Palestinians to understand the violence is not the key to get what you want, so 4 jewish are death, and? what's next? do you think you'll get a prize? no, not at all, it's not working this way anymore.

Even when you are angry, you live in the s-hit, you still need to fight in the diplomatic area, and to keep you hands in the pocket.

It will teach them to kill to get what they want, it's not how you educate a community, and it's a key for a new mess.

 

I feel this conflict is like when 2 man are enemies and they are killing each other at the same time and the families trying to find who is guilty, when both are guilty.

No one can say anymore that one side is innocent..

 

I have a question for you, if, big IF, one day (with the right government) Israel will recognize Palestine, will give lands back and everything and  Palestine will finally be a country, but one day after it will open a war against Israel, what do you think will be your opinion? - it's a scenario that can happen, and I want you to think about it, but let's hope it will not happen.

I agree with you. Palestinians who glorify these attacks are stupid and eye for an eye only works against them. Nothing is achieved and collective punishment will follow. Also, even if minority among Israelis are for peace, Palestinians should never see all Jews as enemies and legitimate target.

If it happens as you said, I believe Jews and Muslims can coexist as they did for centuries, before Israeli state was created. The situation would now be different, they have to recognize each other. But if the occupation ends and they get their rights and dignity back, then I don't think they'll start war against Israel. I'm against wars in general. They should be able to exist as neighbours, they should see each others as humans again.

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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EXCXSXE

Yes, that's not too long ago. Does the murder get old? It still has impact and what followed that event, the reaction of Israeli forces on Palestinians in Hebron. Also the followers of Kahane are still live and well in Israel.

 

But they have nothing to do with what happened today. Most Israelis think they're crazy.   :roll: You should know by now that that's not a majority opinion in Israel (if you even read the wikipedia article theres like 10 mentions of the publics stance on this). You brought that up to remove sympathy from people who died this morning which is SO disrespectful.  :wtf: That specific event had nothing more to do with what happened today than any other terror attack on a religious building.

 

It indirectly glorifies the attacks this morning, in my opinion... Someone posts an article about 4 Israelis killed this morning, and you post in response saying "well, the Israelis did this 20 years ago, so...". I don't mean to suggest you support the use of violence, but you transparently made that reference as a means of justifying what happened this morning. 

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River

I agree with you. Palestinians who glorify these attacks are stupid and eye for an eye only works against them. Nothing is achieved and collective punishment will follow. Also, even if minority among Israelis are for peace, Palestinians should never see all Jews as enemies and legitimate target.

If it happens as you said, I believe Jews and Muslims can coexist as they did for centuries, before Israeli state was created. The situation would now be different, they have to recognize each other. But if the occupation ends and they get their rights and dignity back, then I don't think they'll start war against Israel. I'm against wars in general. They should be able to exist as neighbours, they should see each others as humans again.

 

I believe this too, and it's not too late, people just need to go with the brain and not by emotions.

 

I don't think that the Palestinians needs to recognize Israel, it has been a long argument that stopped many negotiations, it feels more like ego than the real problem.. no one have to recognize Israel as a jewish country if they don't want and it shouldn't be an issue.

I'd rather be dead but I guess I'm alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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