Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[Dolev 867]

Literally everything I said was reported by zionist media too. I posted video as well. There are more. Even if you remove the photos, the truth still stands. Keep on living in denial tho.

Zionist media? I know no "zionist media". 

[Dolev 867]

I think we can all agree both sides are guilty of photo manipulations... 

It makes me so angry to see that stuff from either side.   The obsession with wrong or right interferes with any solutions, and spreading false dramatizations of that is just selfish and horrible. I question every photo that is 

With that said, I think we can all agree that the term "Pallywood" is definitely offensive and we should try to avoid it. 

 

And just for some extra thought, everyone should read this article. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict

Israel is a country, a democratic one, and that's the way it manages itself. It cannot behave the way Palestinian terror groups does with fabricating stories to gain sympathy and media attention. It is obligated to laws and western morals. It also doesn't threat journalists to ignore its atrocities like what Hamas was doing during the last escalation. This battle is an aymmetrical battle.

[lego 44,165]

Zionist media? I know no "zionist media". 

Sure you don't. All the media you consider "reliable".

[Dolev 867]

Sure you don't. All the media you consider "reliable".

You're so brainwashed it's unreal.  I don't know what fairytales you've been told about Israel, but our media reports anything, we even have leftern newspapers like Haaretz which are completely anti-war. There's pluralism in Israel, unlike in some of our neighboor countries. 

[lego 44,165]

Democracy, laws, moral values

Is that why so many Israelis have impunity when they kill an Arab, but when the roles are reversed Arab doesn't even have fair trial?

Is that why hate speach against non-Jews is not only condoned but even encouraged by main politic and religious figures?

You're so brainwashed it's unreal.  I don't know what fairytales you've been told about Israel, but our media reports anything, we even have leftern newspapers like Haaretz which are completely anti-war. There's pluralism in Israel, unlike in some of our neighboor countries. 

I've been told the truth.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9GbKsAvuBDM

And these people are being attacked on the streets of Israel and are getting death threats because of this.

[Dolev 867]

Democracy, laws, moral values

Is that why so many Israelis have impunity when they kill an Arab, but when the roles are reversed Arab doesn't even have fair trial?

Is that why hate speach against non-Jews is not only condoned but even encouraged by main politic and religious figures?

 

 

I've been told the truth.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9GbKsAvuBDM

And these people are being attacked on the streets of Israel and are getting death threats because of this.

'truth' 

You're blind & Ignorant. I bet you didn't even bother on doing a good research besides watching some baised videos on YouTube.

 

Our former president was sent to jail by an Israeli-Arab judge, and that's just one example. Israeli-Arabs are serving as members in our parliament.

They can serve the army if they like to and they are working in the Israeli-police and in the government offices.

They're free to do whatever they like, and, in-fact, they have more rights then they would get in any other Arab state. 

 

What trials are you talking about? what hate speaches? please provide me with real examples so I could refer better. You can't just throw base-less things into the air just because you're up to obsessively-bashing Israel.

[lego 44,165]

'truth'

You're blind & Ignorant. I bet you didn't even bother on doing a good research besides watching some baised videos on YouTube.

Our former president was sent to jail by an Israeli-Arab judge, and that's just one example. Israeli-Arabs are serving as members in our parliament.

They can serve the army if they like to and they are working in the Israeli-police and in the government offices.

They're free to do whatever they like, and, in-fact, they have more rights then they would get in any other Arab state.

What trials are you talking about? what hate speaches? please provide me with real examples so I could refer better. You can't just throw base-less things into the air just because you're up to obsessively-bashing Israel.

It seems to me, I did more research than you from your Tel Aviv bedroom.

Real examples were posted pages ago, but you chose to ignore them, I'm not gonna repeat myself. You couldn't refute anything I said, so you came up with two unrelated photos to try to divert the subject. Here you are again, talking about democracy, laws and morals.

You keep bouncing back and forth, comparing your state to Western countries then to Middle Eastern ones.

Real examples are also in that video, with names and details, which you didn't even watch or listen. Otherwise you wouldn't ask.

You call it biased because it goes against of what they taught you in school or since young age. Israelis like you who glorify their state and defend everything their government does are the victims of indoctrination. But if you would actually do research (and no, just living there is not enough) you would see that your state is based on Jewish supremacy and minimizing the number of non-Jews (and this is direct quote from an ex soldier, Israeli Jew - you might want to read his story http://joshuatartakovsky.com/how-i-changed-from-being-a-former-israeli-soldier-to-pro-palestinian/ ) Just look one page back what Tzipi Livni stated. The new law is "great news for hundreds of thousands of citizens who live with us, whom we encouraged to immigrate as part of the Law of Return but until now were second-rate citizens."

Why are Russian Jews moving out of Israel if everyone is equal and there is democracy and Western values blah blah? Just ask yourself.

Even casino mogul Sheldon Adelson disagrees with you: “I don’t think the Bible says anything about democracy,†Adelson said. “[God] didn’t talk about Israel remaining as a democratic state… Israel isn’t going to be a democratic state  so what?â€

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.626147

Is democracy even mentioned in Israel's declaration of statehood?

The video, which you couldn't dare to watch, is from German parliament and it's a testimony of Canadian-Israeli Jewish journalist about Israeli state-sponsored incitement, fueling intolerance and hate crimes. Impunity of crimes against Palestinians committed by Israelis (On other side we often witness extrajudicial assassinations, like in case of shooting at Israeli settler, Yehuda Glick. Israeli forces murdered a young Palestinian man who they alleged was involved in a crime. No judge, no jury, no opportunity to be heard by a court. This was a targeted killing without a trial and is illegal under both Israeli and international law.)

Here are some more examples for you

No one to be held responsible for killing 14-year-old Palestinian boy out picking edible plants

In March 2014, soldiers shot and killed Yusef a-Shawamreh, a 14-year-old Palestinian boy, as he went through a gap in the Separation Barrier in order to pick edible plants to help provide for his family. B’Tselem’s investigation indicates that he was shot in broad daylight, with no advance warning and although he posed no danger.

http://www.btselem.org/accountability/20141106_shawamreh_investigation_file_closed

Israeli occupation forces shoot 10-year-old Palestinian girl in the head with a rubber-coated metal bullet

Mayar Amran Twafic al-Natsheh, 10, was riding in her grandfather's car with her mother, grandfather, and her sibling when a rubber-coated steel bullet smashed through the car's window and hit her in the face.

She was taken Hadassah hospital near al-Issawiya and medical sources said she suffered a fractured skull as a result of the attack.

Mayar's father is currently being detained by Israeli forces.

An Israeli police spokesman said he did not have any information about the incident.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=739995

Ten torched mosques, zero indictments

Since June 2011, 10 mosques in Israel and the West Bank have been set on fire by presumed right-wing Jewish extremists. No charges have been filed.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.626335

The Status of Palestinian Citizens in Israel

http://electronicintifada.net/content/status-palestinian-citizens-israel/341

Israel: Budget Discriminates Against Children of Arab Citizens

http://www.hrw.org/news/2004/08/10/israel-budget-discriminates-against-children-arab-citizens

Israel: New Laws Marginalize Palestinian Arab Citizens

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginalize-palestinian-arab-citizens

Israel: End Restrictions on Palestinian Residency

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/05/israel-end-restrictions-palestinian-residency

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/opinion/not-all-israeli-citizens-are-equal.html

In March 2014 Hagihon water company stopped regular water supply to north-east Jerusalem neighborhoods isolated from the rest of the city by the Separation Barrier. Consequently, 60,000-80,000 Palestinians –mostly permanent residents of Israel– have no regular water.

http://www.btselem.org/video/20140622_shufat_water_crisis

etc.etc.

[Melech 9,900]

[Dolev 867]

It seems to me, I did more research than you from your Tel Aviv bedroom.

Real examples were posted pages ago, but you chose to ignore them, I'm not gonna repeat myself. You couldn't refute anything I said, so you came up with two unrelated photos to try to divert the subject. Here you are again, talking about democracy, laws and morals.

You keep bouncing back and forth, comparing your state to Western countries then to Middle Eastern ones.

Real examples are also in that video, with names and details, which you didn't even watch or listen. Otherwise you wouldn't ask.

You call it biased because it goes against of what they taught you in school or since young age. Israelis like you who glorify their state and defend everything their government does are the victims of indoctrination. But if you would actually do research (and no, just living there is not enough) you would see that your state is based on Jewish supremacy and minimizing the number of non-Jews (and this is direct quote from an ex soldier, Israeli Jew - you might want to read his story http://joshuatartakovsky.com/how-i-changed-from-being-a-former-israeli-soldier-to-pro-palestinian/ ) Just look one page back what Tzipi Livni stated. The new law is "great news for hundreds of thousands of citizens who live with us, whom we encouraged to immigrate as part of the Law of Return but until now were second-rate citizens."

Why are Russian Jews moving out of Israel if everyone is equal and there is democracy and Western values blah blah? Just ask yourself.

Even casino mogul Sheldon Adelson disagrees with you: “I don’t think the Bible says anything about democracy,†Adelson said. “[God] didn’t talk about Israel remaining as a democratic state… Israel isn’t going to be a democratic state  so what?â€

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.626147

Is democracy even mentioned in Israel's declaration of statehood?

The video, which you couldn't dare to watch, is from German parliament and it's a testimony of Canadian-Israeli Jewish journalist about Israeli state-sponsored incitement, fueling intolerance and hate crimes. Impunity of crimes against Palestinians committed by Israelis (On other side we often witness extrajudicial assassinations, like in case of shooting at Israeli settler, Yehuda Glick. Israeli forces murdered a young Palestinian man who they alleged was involved in a crime. No judge, no jury, no opportunity to be heard by a court. This was a targeted killing without a trial and is illegal under both Israeli and international law.)

Here are some more examples for you

No one to be held responsible for killing 14-year-old Palestinian boy out picking edible plants

In March 2014, soldiers shot and killed Yusef a-Shawamreh, a 14-year-old Palestinian boy, as he went through a gap in the Separation Barrier in order to pick edible plants to help provide for his family. B’Tselem’s investigation indicates that he was shot in broad daylight, with no advance warning and although he posed no danger.

http://www.btselem.org/accountability/20141106_shawamreh_investigation_file_closed

Israeli occupation forces shoot 10-year-old Palestinian girl in the head with a rubber-coated metal bullet

Mayar Amran Twafic al-Natsheh, 10, was riding in her grandfather's car with her mother, grandfather, and her sibling when a rubber-coated steel bullet smashed through the car's window and hit her in the face.

She was taken Hadassah hospital near al-Issawiya and medical sources said she suffered a fractured skull as a result of the attack.

Mayar's father is currently being detained by Israeli forces.

An Israeli police spokesman said he did not have any information about the incident.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=739995

Ten torched mosques, zero indictments

Since June 2011, 10 mosques in Israel and the West Bank have been set on fire by presumed right-wing Jewish extremists. No charges have been filed.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.626335

The Status of Palestinian Citizens in Israel

http://electronicintifada.net/content/status-palestinian-citizens-israel/341

Israel: Budget Discriminates Against Children of Arab Citizens

http://www.hrw.org/news/2004/08/10/israel-budget-discriminates-against-children-arab-citizens

Israel: New Laws Marginalize Palestinian Arab Citizens

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginalize-palestinian-arab-citizens

Israel: End Restrictions on Palestinian Residency

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/05/israel-end-restrictions-palestinian-residency

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/opinion/not-all-israeli-citizens-are-equal.html

In March 2014 Hagihon water company stopped regular water supply to north-east Jerusalem neighborhoods isolated from the rest of the city by the Separation Barrier. Consequently, 60,000-80,000 Palestinians –mostly permanent residents of Israel– have no regular water.

http://www.btselem.org/video/20140622_shufat_water_crisis

etc.etc.

I don't live anywhere near Tel Aviv, too damn expensive... but whateves

You're talking about Russian origin Jews and I am diverting the topic? 

and again with this nonsense of qouiting some random people and trying to make it look like it actually says something. Adelson is not even Israeli. Just stop, your claims about "Jewish supremacy and minimizing the number of non-Jews" is pure anti semitism.

Honey, you know nothing about Israel, you take anything that the media feeds you with.

 

You're taking the things Tzipi said really out of their Hebrew context. The new law is here to fix the old discrimination that is where People from X religion can only marry people from their own faith. Now all people can marry no matter what religion they're coming from and get full rights of a married couple.

 

And yes, just to let you know, democracy is mentiond in the Israeli declaration.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

[lego 44,165]

For ALL its citizens? This is already proven lie.

Just 3 days ago age restrictions were lifted under US and Jordan pressure

http://www.timesofisrael.com/police-brace-for-possible-jerusalem-clashes-ahead-of-friday-prayers/

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-lifts-age-bar-jerusalem-mosque-prayers-073816762.html

Which ME country government lets Christians, Muslims and tourists to synagogues but bans Jews from worship, or allows only those over 50 or only married women etc.?

Extremist Jews are calling for destruction of Al-Aqsa compound and you're talking about freedom of worship. Not to mention again ugly graffiti on churches, calling Jesus - "monkey" and spitting on priests.

[lego 44,165]

I don't live anywhere near Tel Aviv, too damn expensive... but whateves

You're talking about Russian origin Jews and I am diverting the topic?

and again with this nonsense of qouiting some random people and trying to make it look like it actually says something. Adelson is not even Israeli. Just stop, your claims about "Jewish supremacy and minimizing the number of non-Jews" is pure anti semitism.

Honey, you know nothing about Israel, you take anything that the media feeds you with.

You're taking the things Tzipi said really out of their Hebrew context. The new law is here to fix the old discrimination that is where People from X religion can only marry people from their own faith. Now all people can marry no matter what religion they're coming from and get full rights of a married couple.

And yes, just to let you know, democracy is mentiond in the Israeli declaration.

You just accused an Israeli Jew who served in IDF as anti-semite. As I said, the quote is directly from him.

There is no mention of "democracy" in your quote. You might interpret it that way, but democracy is not mentioned even once.

You asked real examples so you can refer better and you didn't answer to any. Again what media? I'm listening to the Jews who speak Hebrew and live in Israel and are getting death threats for opposing the government and racism.

Jewish only cities/neighbourhoods, jewish only schools, jewish only busses, restriction of movement and worship, all that is far from democracy.

Not punishing Israeli criminals and executing Palestinian suspects without a trial, arresting and abusing children, all these things are far from human rights and "Western values".

Do you have many Palestinians as your neighbours? School-mates? Did you ever speak to any of them? Or do you just repeat what Naftali Bennett says about equal rights in Israel?

Go to the other side of the wall, talk to people, maybe you learn something new.

[Dolev 867]

For ALL its citizens? This is already proven lie.

Just 3 days ago age restrictions were lifted under US and Jordan pressure

http://www.timesofisrael.com/police-brace-for-possible-jerusalem-clashes-ahead-of-friday-prayers/

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-lifts-age-bar-jerusalem-mosque-prayers-073816762.html

Which ME country government lets Christians, Muslims and tourists to synagogues but bans Jews from worship, or allows only those over 50 or only married women etc.?

Extremist Jews are calling for destruction of Al-Aqsa compound and you're talking about freedom of worship. Not to mention again ugly graffiti on churches, calling Jesus - "monkey" and spitting on priests.

You're just sick with hate. I live Israel everyday and your'e coming from outside reading some bull**** on news outlets and you think you own it all. You're denying and ignoring Islamic extremism and its impact on our world while blaming the rest for atrocities. Not to mention your extreme usage of stereotypes and prejudice on Jewish people that belongs with Europe of the 40's.  

 

Keep on spreading hate while Israel continues to be an island of sanity in the jungle that is called the Middle East.

The only one in the region where everyone are free to live their life, no matter what religion they're coming from or what s-xual orientation they are familiar with.

 

[Dolev 867]

You just accused an Israeli Jew who served in IDF as anti-semite. As I said, the quote is directly from him.

There is no mention of "democracy" in your quote. You might interpret it that way, but democracy is not mentioned even once.

You asked real examples so you can refer better and you didn't answer to any. Again what media? I'm listening to the Jews who speak Hebrew and live in Israel and are getting death threats for opposing the government and racism.

Jewish only cities/neighbourhoods, jewish only schools, jewish only busses, restriction of movement and worship, all that is far from democracy.

Not punishing Israeli criminals and executing Palestinian suspects without a trial, arresting and abusing children, all these things are far from human rights and "Western values".

Do you have many Palestinians as your neighbours? School-mates? Did you ever speak to any of them? Or do you just repeat what Naftali Bennett says about equal rights in Israel?

Go to the other side of the wall, talk to people, maybe you learn something new.

I don't know him nor I know what was his real intentions that you got out of context, but he's just a person. Not the prime minister or even an official.

 

"Jewish only cities/neighbourhoods, jewish only schools, jewish only busses, restriction of movement and worship, all that is far from democracy."

ok that is the biggest bull**** you ever said. I just proved how clueless your are about Israel.

Palestinains are Palestinians, they do not live in Israel. Arabs in Israel are Israelis. And yes, I happen to know tons. In Israel we learn Arabic at school and we have mixed cities like Akko, Haifa, Ramla and more. We treat each other with respect and live together, Jews, Muslims, Christans, Druze people, etc. We have no "Jew-only" things. That is a lie you just invented.

 

I won't talk about the army as I am no familiar with all the reasons any-single-thing happens, just like you. The picture is far from being black & white and both sides needs to chill down.

[hmm 979]

France, Spain and Denmark are all holding non-binding votes in their respective parliaments on recognition of Palestine, they'll most likely pass and join the UK and Ireland with non-binding support, alongside Sweden, Poland and Hungary with official recognition. 

 

The EU is also apparently considering sanctions against Israel for breaking international law in regard to the settlements 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11234137/EU-considering-sanctions-against-Israel-over-settlements.html

 

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/New-EU-foreign-policy-chief-Recognizing-a-Palestinian-state-is-not-enough-382017

 

Not really relevant but I'm somewhat proud of Ireland for being at least slightly ahead of most of Europe when it comes to Palestine, official and proper recognition would be better but still, better than nothing :madge:Surprised Israel hasn't responded with its rhetoric in 2011 that ""Ireland (is the) most hostile country in Europe", which is ironic considering so many people view Ireland as being an immensely friendly place

 

Off topic a bit but still

[Luc 4,776]

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.626946

they're considering sanctions against Israel the US probably won't join but this will really put pressure on the government to stop some of their wrongdoings.

I want my country to recognize Palestine, but I think there's not a majority for it yet..